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Any chance we can get a nerf on striker/mystic?

Discussion in 'Mystic' started by AlwaysSaltyAF, Sep 8, 2018.

  1. thdsm

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    I like how you keep missing the obvious sarcasm. Serious talk now though, Lahn is not bad at all, especially in 1v1, but not op either, not even "lowkey". The main reason she seems op is because most people haven't learned how they work and how to deal with them. Once you realise that their best tool is their grab, and the rest of the kit is meh at best and start playing around that, it is entirely possible to fight them with half the classes or so (some will have a hard time no matter what though).

    I play Black Desert Online, it's a korean mmo. What about you?

    And about statistics, I never said "statistics don't matter", nice fake quote there. I said you shouldn't be looking at statistics alone, in fact it should often be that last thing you look at. But I'll rephrase that: while statistics can be quite important, it is crucial to understand what you're reading there. For example average playerbase-wide statistics are almost entirely useless for balancing purposes, unless your ultimate goal is to have every class have the same skill floor and ceiling. The statistics can be drastically different between different player groups, sometimes polar opposites more or less. And yes, this can mean that a certain class is a bit op in a certain skill bracket, which is often unavoidable, but completely fine as long as it's not a high skill bracket.
     
  2. thdsm

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    Could always ditch the SA on the succ, it would have a nice side-effect of ppl stopping complaining about it, since it would be useless.
     
  3. LoganSilver

    LoganSilver LoganSilver Mystic 61 NA

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    Trading an SA on a short 5 second cooldown with an SA that is not easily spammable due to a 20 second cooldown would be problematic.

    Maybe add SA to Spiral Torpedo. Remove CC from spiral torpedo. Remove SA from Rising Dragon. Add CC to Rising Dragon. Or perhaps do the switch with Sea Burial? I’d even be fine with also losing SA on Dragon Rip (vacuum) as Spiral torpedo has a shorter cooldown than the other skills.

    Either way, I doubt PA will make any of these changes :)
     
  4. thdsm

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    Well it would be losing its potential utility as well, because the succ is nearly unusable with SA. It would basically be a crappy skill to not put points into.

    Rising dragon is always a good candidate, to revert it back to the old state when it had the float and no SA. Sea burial probably not because it's one of the very few SA skills with decent damage on mystic.

    You are probably right, but there's always a chance that they randomly do something that makes sense. It has happened before.
     
  5. LordXEnu

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  6. Laner

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    "If you die to a mystic she must have out geared you" you are defending YOUR CLASS in every single thread, you know she must get nerfed but thinking your words will stop a well deserved nerf? you are afraid of going from a OP class to a strong class? a SS+ class to a S+ class?

    I know its the normal thing to do..
    Ur class is fine and everyone else is overpowered right? but it would actually make sense for you to whine for buffs and not whining not to be nerfed by defending your class tells me u know ur class is broken idc if people defend their classes but it coming from a mystic main saying mystic is a well made and balanced class in every thread makes me salty, Not only that but the execution of mystic is braindead easy.. u put in 1/10th efford of some of the other classes for 200pct more outcome. The class is a development mistake, they want it to do too much at the same time and it cant balanced to do all that, nerf this unfun class into the ground please and rework it.
     
  7. BloodLeshen

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    So why should there be balance? What would the points of classes be if all are the same? Some classes do better against other classes and that is how it is suppose to be.

    When a Striker or Mystic or Ninja contest my spot there is a reason I think twice before I engage.. The class that contest me will depend my play style and approach. This is 1vs1. In 1vsX I will try and do my part as a Sorc. My part is definitely not the same as a wizard / Valk / striker or mystic.

    In smaller fights team work should be the key. How you engage and support the group all depends on the classes and builds inside the group.

    In a game with classes there could never be balance and for reason.

    Edit: And there is a massive difference between a good Mystic and a bad mystic and same goes for wizards/ valks / warrior.. all classes. Even some Strikers because you get really dumb strikers but you get clever ones. Those ones are actually at the top of the kills on the NW leader boards.
     
  8. Papade

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    Seen this?

    Ny bitmappsbild (2).jpg
     
  9. Handjob~Bandit

    Handjob~Bandit Mystic 61 NA

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    Shameless Mystic posting so feel free to ignore me...

    But posting table that is a collection of (biased) player surveys doesn't really tell us anything. Plus there's only about 400 responses...which statistically speaking is a low sample size, leading to even less credibility.

    Not saying Mystic can't use some tweaking, but lets not throw around "player constructed surveys" to support the argument.
     
    Soulo and Netreiam like this.
  10. Rayin

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    Balance means "the same" in which world? class diversity is something, toolkit diversity is something, overperforming in one or more scenario isn't diversity, is unbalance.

    Class diversity isn't unbalance as much as Balance isn't "give the same tools to everyone", i don't think they'll give pulls or pets to a Warrior.
    What can be done is changing general tools to balance a bit more the status, because right now we have pulls (and it's fine, they shouldn't affect SA tho), we have grabs that have either KD or are protected on successful hit while others don't, we have millimetric grabs or light years long grabs.
    We have class with a lot of FG that in the current meta means no protections, others with SA, others with SA and i-frames, others with i-frames.
    We also have classes with 12+ protected CC and various SA and classes that have none. Classes that do a lot of damage in 2 hits, classes that require a full combo to take down someone.
    Classes that have plenty downsmashes that can be chained and the downsmash triggers with multiple hits, classes that have a couple of downsmashes with a single hit.

    What you say isn't wrong, but that's exactly the reason we have unbalance and it doesn't mean that is "diversity", it means simply that roles are skewed because there are no roles in this game, but PA constantly tries to shift the meta or the concept of what's BDO.
     
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  11. Bob2009

    Bob2009 Wizard 61 EU

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    How is it biased? There aren't any biased questions nor is it targeted towards a biased playerbase. "Lets not throw player constructed surveys"? Seeing as the devs don't put up an survey on the eu/na forums, i don't see why players can't. The survey is perfectly fine as it asks for a rating from the player on a fairly simple question of how good the class is in pve, pvp and life skills. The questions cannot be misinterpreted hence not biased. It also isn't inaccessable within a set time period so anyone can vote and change the table. What is biased and a conflict on interest however, is a single response disregarding the voice of 400 coming from a mystic that is trying to defend a survey that clearly shows mystic is op in every category in the game. It is obvious you want to keep the status quo for mystic since you play it when the majority of other players do not.

    Statistically speaking, anything below 30 is unfeasible as a sample size but anything above 30 is fine. The sample size is fine for the population in the forums since there is usually around 800 people in the forum at peak time in EU.

    I think you need to be a better mystic white knight than this.
     
    #251 Bob2009, Jan 22, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2019
  12. Handjob~Bandit

    Handjob~Bandit Mystic 61 NA

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    Dang you caught me.

    Your reward? A tip on how to actually calc sample sizes:

    Enjoy <3

    Necessary Sample Size = (Z-score)2 * StdDev*(1-StdDev) / (margin of error)2

     
    #252 Handjob~Bandit, Jan 22, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2019
  13. Netreiam

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    Agree with most things here however I do take issue with a few things.

    The first one is a bit biased; I think suctions working on SA and FG is fine because it’s not a direct CC. I honestly feel like global slows are much more damaging to a player than a suction because those not only make people easier to catch and kill like suction, but they also cripple their offense and make otherwise solid combos unusable.


    The next one is less biased; I think variable grabs are fine, BUT needs to be balanced. Grabbing someone 10 inches away from you shouldn’t be the same speed as grabbing someone 10 meters away. Earlier I thought that maybe making longer grabs slower would be a possible solution, but this would **** over classes with longer grab range if they decided to grab someone in their face. I also had an idea of coding grabs as “projectiles” but that is obviously very convoluted. A better idea would be to make grab skills a multitude of “hits” that move forward, similar to wailing wind on ranger. This way classes with a reach advantage retian it in a balanced way.

    Similarly KD and protected grabs are fine if they make sense. Mystic, for instance is fine with KD grab imo because her kit’s low damage demands it. Striker and ranger however have more than enough damage without a KD off of grab. Likewise, berserker’s slow grabs are meant to be used as single target controlling CC in a group setting and deserve SA (especially since they are slow) however kuno/ninja shouldn’t have had SA on suicide fall considering they are assassins and shouldn’t be trying to do striker’s job and charge into a storm of CC and take out someone unfettered.
     
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  14. Rayin

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    It's not a bit biased, you're used to Valk pull that is a bit bugged and predictable, but Mystic pull for instance is much worse and doesn't count in the maximum CC count like any other pull, rooting you on the spot. Classes with FG are basically condamned to resist to a Sea Burial that might break your block for example, with Wizard i can TP away from it, with Berserker i can Giant Leap + Jump Sequence, with Striker i have 5 different ways to evade it and i can grab her if she tries to do the same with me. If isn't that is straight grab afterwards.

    And slow grabs like Zerker one or Striker one are fine, beside the fact that they have multiple grabs, those could be enhanced in some other way since in small scale they mean instant death for the opponent if just one of your team-mates has enough AP.
    I agree that slow are pretty cancerous, that's why i'd also reduce them to 10% and i wouldn't make them stackable, which isn't a big advantage, because in mass Ritardando + Blizzard turn your movements into a slideshow.

    Obviously adjustments on toolkits are needed, but as it stands right now Mystic "has low damage" at low AP tiers, at really high AP tiers is pretty much fine, except that she can also downsmash for good at low AP brackets, but we all know that at high AP brackets pretty much every class can kill another one.
     
  15. Bob2009

    Bob2009 Wizard 61 EU

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    I already know a bit of statistics, hence i mentioned the 30 sample size minimum but ty for copying and pasting what can already be googled.
     
    #255 Bob2009, Jan 22, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2019
  16. WhySoSeeryus

    WhySoSeeryus Wizard 62 EU

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    with which parts of the table dont you agree? :) and to what degree?
     
  17. thdsm

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    In that survey I voted 10 in each category for every class I don't play or care about (including the ones I never touched) and 1 in each category for the classes that I play, even though I believe that they are way better than that. And I know that many, if not most, of the others did the same. In fact I'm sure you just went in and put 10 on mystic in every category out of spite.

    Point is, these surveys have absolutely no value if you want to get a picture of class balance looks. They do have value however when deciding how salty certain classes make the general scrub population of the game. But we didn't really need a survey for that, it is already known that the average idiot with less than 10 hours of total pvp experience, or even one with lots of experience but doomed to be an eternal 50%-er due to lack of talent and brain thinks that mystic is op and is butthurt as hell about it.
     
  18. Papade

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    No, i haven't even taken the survey, and that you and others ruin the survey by not taking it serious is just sad, that there are people like that.

    I'm pretty sure most do vote correctly and imo when i look at the survey, i find that it is very accurate and therefore i think the absolute majority do vote correctly.
     
  19. thdsm

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    You "find that it is very accurate" because it fits your narrative, otherwise you'd have dismissed it right away. Like I said before, you can take this survey very seriously if your objective is to find out how salty certain classes make feel the general population of idiots. But that's where its usefulness ends.
     
  20. Papade

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    No, because it is accurate in general. Stop saying why i do things, i'm not like you, i don't spread false information around to change how people percieve things so that it fits "my narrative". The one that does this is you, who clearly admitted to answering a survey that is supposed to help the community wrong. That is ridiculous and it will be hard to take anything you say seriously after this.

    Musa is voted higher than mystic at low end grind spots.
    Wizard Witch is voted higher than mystic at large scale pvp.
    Ninja is voted higher than mystic at 1v1.
    Sorc Mystic is voted higher than musa at endgame pve.

    All these things are also true and can be confirmed by most people.

    Almost the whole community think mystic is very good at everything in the game, wich this survey clearly show, and also is true.

    I've seen many top streamers recommend mystic saying it's not the best at everything, but top3 and can do everything very well.

    Something most classes cannot do, this survey reflect that in a very accurate way.
     

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