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Archer nerf - another arrow to the knee

Discussion in 'Archer' started by SweetsDealer, Aug 4, 2019.

  1. Kauni

    Kauni Archer 63 EU

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    Are you sure?^^ Cause that's EXACTLY what a zerker does during Q buff. Spamming 1 skill with perma KD + down smash without CD. And if he goes close to you, he will ult and kill the entire guild :^)
     
  2. Distaken

    Distaken Warrior 62 NA

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    You're assuming that what I'm saying is that a class needs to be #1 in all areas to be OP which isn't what I said. Archer is insane at aakman and yes there are other classes that can do great there as well and some of those classes also need small nerfs or other classes need some buffs. It is very fair to say that archer is extremely good in PvE.

    For 1v1? Well how endgame do you mean and how skilled do you mean? Most endgame builds go for something like 281/316 AP/DP and if both players are at that gear the non archer is still going to have his block destroyed in a few hits. As a warrior I tried out a hybrid build for a bit where I went with a little over 330DP from stacking DR which makes block stronger. Despite that I, as a warrior, would have my oh so OP Q block broken in seconds. My archer guildies with 270AP could destroy my Q block by hitting RMB 5-6 times or by doing real skills in about 2-3 hits. I can only imagine what this must be like for classes with an even weaker forward guard. An archer can gun most of these classes down before they can ever even catch up. And that along with how easy the class is doesn't make it seem to me like this is any sort of horrible 1v1 class.

    In smallscale fights where its 3v3, 4v4, 5v5, 10v10 archer is undoubtedly powerful. Obviously if his team sucks and his teammates willw atch him get charged by multiple enemies and just sit there and let him die he won't accomplish anything but with a competent team he is very very strong. He is able to support teammates with ranged ccs and secure enemy kills from a safe distance.

    For largescale I am aware that all classes have some protection, the difference is that those classes (excluding witch/wiz which are also extremely strong in largescale) dont have range. Sure a striker has more protection than an archer *because a striker has to be in the ball surrounded by enemies* an archer sit at a safe range and do CCs, damage, combos, and support from the backline. Range in itself is an extremely strong mechanic which is why archer does so well in many areas. The other thing about range is that it doesn't really take a whole lot of skill. Which is another main point of mine, that archer overperforms in many areas despite not taking a whole lot of skill.
     
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  3. TeRRoRibleOne

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    You are unfortunately arguing with people who feel that archer should be #1 in all aspects of the game because being OP means more than actually having skill. Most archers are dent heads
     
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  4. Kripion

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    End game for me starts at 301 ap and 350 dp.
    Ur block will get destroyed by any class if u try to sit behind instead od fighting. Archer needs to be pressed all the time if you want to win. And here comes the skill i was taking about.

    PvE wise end game grinding only starts at akman. You cant call OP the class that's good at one spot.

    "Get charged by multiple enemies" hehehe belife me one soft cap ninja is more than enough.


    You have a strange way of thinking about Archer sitting at backline and killing from time to time at 10 km range.... Maybe try to gear one and taste that calm, careless, fearless backline..

    And last one thing: Archer isn't the only class that killls at range. Maybe cry about range itself and let others enjoy their NOT SO OP AS IT LOOKS LIKE class.
     
    #84 Kripion, Aug 27, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2019
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  5. Kauni

    Kauni Archer 63 EU

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    Na in fact everyone who complains about archer is usually just bad at his own class. Nowhere would an archer main tell you he wants to be #1 in everything.

    I was asking for these OP archers, where they are... some guy was claiming there are soooo many archers and it's such a HUGE issue in BDO nowadays that the class needs a HUGE nerf. Now I know for a fact that there are not many EU archers and less than 5 of them are good. (one quitted by now cause of WoW classic hype and BDO having no content)

    Idk a single good one on NA. But since there are so many I was thinking at least one of them would stream? Nope, nobody could show me this HUGE ISSUE that there are SO MANY archers everywhere and not a single one streams? I mean come on :^)

    So what did I do next? I checked KR. Guess what? They don't play archers, they don't care about archers, they don't whine about archers.

    A lot of people say how insanely OP archer is in so many things, even 1vs1. But we all know it's just forum plebs who play with feet. Who could bet money on it? Who is willing to lose 1,3k+ € for a stupid claim? I can tell who is NOT. KR people. Here is a tournament that happened not long ago where you could win RTX 2080 TI and RTX 2080.

    If I wanna win something that is worth 1k+ € then I DEFINITELY play the class that is OP and that I can play somewhat well, right? Now apparently archer is so op and so ez to play but why did not a single tournament guy choose the class? You will see almost every class there. Even a ranger but no OP ARCHER? Why not? :^)

     
  6. Nabuch

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    Musa perspective.

    Step 1 - not hard
    Step 2 - You mean "don't engage into their S+E which leaves them with one ranged Knockdown which is also their iframe, so they won't use it"
    Step 3 - you mean the low damage FG one? Easy win for me!
    Step 4 - Such a huge hole you can just dive, both at the beginning and end.
    Step 5 - they don't, you just suck monkey balls, or your block breaks in a single attack
    Step 6 - If your attacks don't register, you are either bad or lagging. As a superior alpha class like Musa I have no problems trading against Archers.
    Step 7 - CC against Archer? Meh. Just delete!
     
  7. Nabuch

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    See? You suck. Ninja relies on weaving between iframe and block. Block you break, iframe you conveniently ignore.

    https://www.twitch.tv/contash1234/clip/PlayfulDullMonitorNerfBlueBlaster

    To close the gap they have to use unprotected engage, which is easy to counter with Meteor Dive or Piercing Cry.

    Unless they stealth engage, you actually have an advantage in that matchup. If you think softcap Ninja is enough to kill a very geared Archer, you are bad and delusional, so the rest of your post has no value.

    And yes, Ninja may be best 1v1 duelist, just like Sorc, but against Archer they are actually at a disadvantaged because of the need to linger on FGs when stamina is low.
     
  8. Kripion

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    Well if ninja doesnt use his stealth its him who suck... so this vid proves nothing AND "the rest of your post has no value."

    Your welcome;p
     
  9. Nabuch

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    You do realize if you see a Ninja go into stealth you can easily counter with Shift+E, right? The only time you can get ganked is when you grind and Ninja stealth engages. You totally missed the point, bad player.
     
  10. Kauni

    Kauni Archer 63 EU

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    Hmm... how much AP does a very geared archer have? In that clip for example it's reespo and these days he had like 283 AP or something.
    I duelled some 281 AP archers on my trial ninja, musa and tamer. I never felt in disadvantage on ninja or tamer due to insane iframes they have. Musa... well ye... gotta admit I lost to one archer here (out of 10?).

    But then again, I don't even have 1 day playtime on any of these classes :-P

    Imo archers "easiest" matchups are striker (+ maybe mystic) and zerker (without Q buff only). Everything else can actually kill archer quite easy. (assuming 580+ GS for both here)
     
  11. Kripion

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    Ninja was my mainly for over two years.
    Bad player, good player, noob, pro, genius, moron its not up to u to decide that. And on first place its not a threat about it. If you want forum pvp im not here for it.

    Bring something inteligent and related to topic or find other person to argue with.
     
  12. Distaken

    Distaken Warrior 62 NA

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    Imagine comparing a class with their E/Q buff active to a class without their E/Q buff lol idk why you mind your Q buff which effectively doubles your damage, +100% crit rate, +15% special attack damage. Also when zerker Q buffs they still arent protected and also dont have as much range as archer. And as I said I do think zerker should be toned back a bit. But this thread is about archer.
     
  13. Kauni

    Kauni Archer 63 EU

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    Because people cry about archers CCs meanwhile the zerker is the one who literally perma spams CC with a single skill. Q buff is always ready every engage so I find that valid.
    I am not sure why you say archers Q buff doubles the damage... I mean it's 15% the 100% crit are irrelevant cause we do already have 50% - 100% base crit on skills.
    Zerker also has the same range like archer pretty much... archer has 2 skills with higher range than zerker. Also zerker is actually protected during Q buff... sure it's "just" resistance but they do a lot meanwhile archer loses his protection during Q buff. The only damage skill with protection archer has during Q buff is the 50% bsr skill. I'd take zerkers Q buff over archers anytime.

    People seem to cry about archer like they did about mystics on release. But I asked a lot of guilds (especially the active and competitive PvP guilds) how many archers they have... and 4 archers was max that I found in a guild. I am wondering why competitive guilds don't have more archers if it's such an op and popular class. Because back in the days I can't remember a guild with less than 10 mystics pre nerfs :^)
     
  14. Distaken

    Distaken Warrior 62 NA

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    Again... I said zerker should also get some nerfs? Saying my class isn't OP because there are more OP classes isn't a valid argument.
     
  15. Kauni

    Kauni Archer 63 EU

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    Actually if you think about it, it is :-P
    If there are at some point so many OP classes and only few "not OP", then it means these classes just need to be tuned up a bit.

    I honestly tried to think impartially why people think archer is op and I couldn't find anything valid.
    Damage? Every class does insane damage.... especially past 269 AP.
    CC? Has no grab and actually very telegraphing and limited CC (past nerfs).
    Range? Well... yes, range class with range.... but environment counters range heavily and archer can't do anything against it (some classes also don't care about archers range at all due to their class design).
    Iframe? Worst iframe in the game...
    Mobility? Everything has a cooldown and stamina costs on top... it is also rotating between sa and fg.

    So I am honestly not sure what exactly is OP on archer... Things like zerkers Q buff (perma CC without a CD on 1 spammable skill) that is something I'd call op... Zerker/Tamer ult... you know... this kind of things :-)
     
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  16. Distaken

    Distaken Warrior 62 NA

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    Ok, no? Just because your class isn't #1 at everything doesn't mean it isn't OP. I'll help you understand what makes it OP. Range. Protection. Damage. Braindead. This class is the most ranged class in the game, which is fine, except because of the other things mentioned makes it not so fine. Range is inherently strong. It means you get to do an attack and damage your opponent while threatening a CC with no punishment as in you aren't taking damage while dealing damage or risking being ccd while trying to damage/cc. That isn't too much of an issue except the protection. You have just as much melee super armor as I do and I'm a warrior which is supposed to specialize as a bruiser/melee class. Next issue: Damage. Archer damage is absurd. "Every class does high damage after 269AP" ok well archer does more than other classes after and before 269AP WHILE being able to do more and more damage from a range? What does it mean if someone has 300AP if they die before they can get close to you to use it. Archer damage is simply oppressive, as a warrior I start all my archer duels with only 50% block HP because 1 skill will do that to you and some do even more (Keep in mind I have a shield which logically would stop arrows and a huge iron greatsword :p) Archer can hold down RMB and destroy my block in 5-ish hits more or less depending on AP. Thats dumb that an auto attack does that is it not? So it ends up being a case of melee classes have to chase you down without getting CCd but also while avoiding all the damage you're putting our from a range. By the time we even get to you our forward guard is 20% HP or broken, we've used up cooldowns, we are likely low stamina (because just so you know archer isn't the only class that has cooldowns and stamina), our HP is probably 50ish % from damage that leaks through FG or SA, and now you can "Outplay" me by using some of your super armor and forward guard CCs like meteor dive, piercing cry, gaping darkness, verdure clout, then once you are ready to get out you can zephyr leap away to reset the range while also having a forward guard cc as you fly away. And nearly all of your melee protection is on a 3-6 second cooldown which is considerably lower than many classes. Finally, the class is braindead af. Any noob can pick it up given a little bit of time to practice. A class being able to perform this well with that little skill required is disgusting. In largescale this is doubly true where you can hide in the backline with the supposed frontliners to protect you since in part because of your existence, their place on the battlefield has been lessened.
     
  17. Kauni

    Kauni Archer 63 EU

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    You just described zerker during Q buff...^^

    Ok, I understand now a bit. It seems just an issue of not knowing the class. Why do you think archer can damage + cc with no risk getting CCd? As I said archer has 2 skills (7 sec cd KB + must be charged and 20 sec cd no cc, no multiplier, very slow) that have more range than other range skills in the game.
    Currently archers has two reliable opening CCs at range. Winged strike (unprotected KD, no control on CC) and Zephyrs leap (unprotected in the start, fg during movement, stiffness). Glissade is a fg with KD on THIRD hit, if someone has issue to avoid this one, then the person should stop playing PvP.
    Archer has to use winged strike a lot, to pressure people and force them to do something, that's why I said no control over the CC here. During that archer easy open to any range CC and we have a lot of them in the game.

    So archers melee protection is what you say makes the class OP? But how is archer supposed to escape a melee class unprotected while having no grab and very bad iframe? As soon as there is a melee class in your face archer should be literally unprotected? That is balanced then?
    I find archers mobility balanced because it's a rotation of sa and fg skills. Besides that it has huge gaps. I don't mean the normal gaps here, they are really huge. I can record a clip of me getting CCd in every single protected skill and that's not an exception, especially against maehwas.

    This is simply not true. Archers OP damage comes from an unprotected melee combo. The range damage before 269 AP is just garbage. You can test that with trials chars easily.

    I agree I am not a fan of RMB doing that much damage and I also dislike the high damage on archer with melee combos. Regardless I could never start a fight with RMB against any experienced player.
    The 50% left block at the beginning is true if archer starts with his 23 sec CD and has high AP. On a 316 DP valk for example I need litrally my entire awk range kit (including 20 and 23 sec CDs) to kill the block (I am 276//273 AP 2x RCE), after that I got 2 pre awk range skills left in my whole range kit.
    https://streamable.com/ap2wm

    I know valks block is stronger, idk why tho... imo valk and warrior should have same block... warrior probably even better block since valk has heals and pa.

    Ok here you are obviously talking from warrior perspective and not a melee class. Striker, mystic, valk, lahn etc... can all engage quite easy on archer with literally zero risk of getting CCd. Good player will do that without awk buff, bad player can simply pop awk buff to do that.
    If warrior pops his awk buff it's pure rng and with a little bit of knowledge actually a safe engage on archer with barely any risk of getting CCd.
    Oh and I promise you here, if you meet an archer who is using gaping darkness in PvP, you will get a free win and you can even play with your feet and monitor off :^)
    Every skill you mentioned used in melee is usually a free grab, except for piercing cry (unless it's a lahn).

    This is true. The cooldowns are quite low but that is also needed considering how many classes have protected movement for a long distance. Lahn is a good example here. In theory she has longer cooldowns on her total movement kit. But the distance she travels is more than enough with these CDs and she is still able to dodge and get away after using these CDs.

    Hm and that's the part that confuses me. Why do all the competitive guilds have only like 1-4 archers? If it's that strong and easy to play, why don't they have more? When mystic was op and braindead every guild had around 10 mystics.
    I also do create different trial chars, watch a combo on youtube and fight some archers. With <1day playtime I beat the most or get 50/50 if it goes very bad. And I am talking about archer mains here.

    Btw are you from EU or NA if I may ask?
     
  18. Kripion

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    Distaken if you have a time make a trial Archer and (at its braindead class) go destroy all other trials (which know how to use their class) facerolling on keyboard. Try to focus on Soft Cap warriors or a trial once. Then recod it and upload here. If its true ill admitt all your arguments.

    Currently i can ensure you that if you allow any Archer to hit you more than one time with RMB they you need seriuosly training on your warior.


    P.S. Good bless trials:)
     
  19. Kauni

    Kauni Archer 63 EU

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    I don't have free trial slots atm but I can offer tamer ww, musa rmb and ninja block jump if someone wants to test an trial archer on EU :^)
     
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  20. Maginha

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    No thx the size of my backhole is 1cm and id like it to stay like that :D
     
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