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Archer Nerf

Discussion in 'Archer' started by Kauni, May 8, 2019.

  1. Kauni

    Kauni Archer 62 EU

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    I mean you can't be serious by saying that the squishiest class in the game has more block than a warrior lol^^
    And the 9 protected ccs is somethign that people don't understand and spread around.
    Nonetheless if you think archer is op in pvp, you are welcome to show me that in a duel :-)
     
  2. Joungf

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    As long as PA / Kakao produce illogic classes, skills, gear, stones, etc. the player will cry "nerf this and that!" and the nerf will go on!
     
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  3. TinaCipollari

    TinaCipollari AmiciDiMaria Archer 62

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    Let me break down our protected CC for you, since you don't have any argument other than what Crit claimed; totally personal rankings

    S tier: actually great utility
    Piercing cry: SA stiff, core movement, comes with a 200 stamina cost, doesn't linger

    A tier: solid skills that help us moving/staying alive
    Glissade: FG knockdown, if you get CC'd by this 3 seconds long animation I'm sorry for you. High tier only thanks to the stamina recovery.
    Zephyr leap: FG stiff with a gap and a hitbox that doesn't update until mid animation and can be grabbed from miles away. 25% actually gives us some hope to survive certain things

    B tier: coin clips where one of the two will die
    Meteor dive: melee SA stiff, has 2 major gaps, the landing one is easy to read
    Verdure clout: melee, stationary FG float, good counter to unskilled players
    Tactical strike: not actually a protected CC, sad iframe, we'll take what we can get
    Piercing light: not actually a protected CC, like sorc's judgement any good player can punish this as soon as you let the arrow go

    C tier aka Luth:
    Luthragon's call: not actually a protected CC, owo knockback

    ?? tier:
    Gaping darkness: melee FG stiff
    Volant kick: melee FG knockback

    Maybe this will inspire you for a more constructive discussion

    Some ideas I have floating in my mind to balance archer
    Zephyr leap: remove stiff, turn it into iframe>FG skill (like the old musa's One Step Back)
    Glissade: perhaps a longer cooldown
    Meteor dive: leave stiffness only on last hit, close the initial SA gap
    Tactical strike: if this stays the only iframe it needs a shorter cooldown
    Piercing light: as I stated this skill already follows the design of many other skills of the game, but it could do with a bit of a nerf in damage
    Luthragon's call: remove FG, nobody cares
    Gaping darkness: remove FG or stiff, nobody cares
    Volant kick: nobody uses this, but if it makes you feel better you can nerf it too
     
  4. Kauni

    Kauni Archer 62 EU

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    I'd not even count gaping darkness and volant kick tbh... it's almost never the case to actually use that skills over something else.

    Zephyr leap: this would be bit too strong imo, I'd keep it as it is and just close the gap.
    Glissade: Not sure but I'd had no issues at all to remove the KD from it. This one literally works only against noobs.
    Meteor dive: Sounds good.
    Tactical strike: The iframe should be longer imo, cd would be fine as it is
    Piercing light: I'd not nerf the damage, I would just let the damage stack up with every charge instead of having it instant
    Luthraghon's call: FG could go but I'd like to have at least it's full damage then in return
    Gaping darkness: just remove the skill lul, who cares^^
    Volant kick: same^^

    What we really do need is a proper KD skill where we get full control over it. Winged strike is already used to stay mobile while wrecking blocks(fgs) to build up some pressure. If we back off with zephyr and land a stiffness we usually do not have a proper KD follow up to start a combo, full bloom KD was a good (even tho not ideal) thing here. We need some follow up but I guess we all know, we will never get it.
     
  5. Tvvin

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    I am tis a Ninja main. But what if Pearl Abyss swapped the CC of wing strike with lughragon's call?
     
  6. WhySoSeeryus

    WhySoSeeryus Wizard 63 EU

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    I would like PA to fix archers somehow ccing through FG and from outside render range.
     
  7. Kauni

    Kauni Archer 62 EU

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    Luthraghon's call has knockback on it which is a hard cc as well. Imo knockback on a spamming skill like winged strike would be probably even worse cause the animation of a knockback is stupid sometimes and a follow up has still to be a KD. Luthraghon's can be canceled with rmb, low sweep, glide, and w+lmb (at least that's the most useful cancels) but all of them require bit too much time for a smooth KD follow up knockback cc.

    Basically could keep it as it is and still try to KD with light's trail but the low sweep animation is just kinda killing it. We have nothing really smooth left.
    It would have been nice if they changed full bloom KD, so that only the middle arrow has KD on it and rest doesn't. This way it is not an aoe KD anymore and it nerfs the faceroll point blank combo as well. (unless 2 ccs already happened, then it's the same as it is now) Also wouldn't mine less range and aoe on it.
     
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  8. TinaCipollari

    TinaCipollari AmiciDiMaria Archer 62

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    I would like PA to fix wizards having FG when they shouldn't 4Head
     
  9. Malkontent

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    Was pvping on arsha at the manshuam node Manager. In a spot with no where to kite and you cant shoot up or down and they were still complaining archer OP. It doesn't matter what you do. It doesn't matter how much you explain logically. It doesn't matter how many streamers jump on the reroll wagon just to coupon off. People just want it gutted. We have serious strengths and serious weaknesses. I hate to break it to you but that's called balance. I just want them to gut the class already like all the qqers want or for pa to comment and say enough. At least if they gut it I can go play a truly OP class like musa.
     
  10. stalas

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    Btw u can do zephyr leap into rmb to do light trail doing stiff and kd . Or zephyr and shift rmb do land knockback snipe and roll kd with tactical ou wings strike.

    For me its bit op that we can glide - meteor doing sa stiff pass over guy and cc him in the back - follow by piercing cry sa stiff - zephyr leap block stiff - light trail kd - luthdragon cancel - kd with wings strike or tactical strike- glide-glissade 1 hit do do double dash - then shift e in mele to finish - uproot or w+e to finish him but normaly they die before that.

    If they want nerf maybe piercing cry up cd from 3 to 6 and swap meteor from sa to block so we can get cc when to pass over ppl doing cc in their back or just remove stiff from piercing cry or meteor
     
  11. Malkontent

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    And then any competent player hits an SA trade and you die before you land. Or grabs you. A melee archer is a dead archer.
     
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  12. TinaCipollari

    TinaCipollari AmiciDiMaria Archer 62

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    I'm not sure whats OP in any of that
    Punishing a frontal block by going behind a player? Chaining CC? Canceling abilities to increase dps? Double dash (lol)? Oh ok full bloom damage, yea that's the OP part, the rest is literally how everybody plays the game
     
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  13. stalas

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    ya i know but iits still bit of u can do 3 protect stiff
    On other side we dont have grab and this combo is not really better than what musa ninja mystic maehwa can do so...
    But if u compare that to what ranger can do in mele remove the grab and yesss archer is super op in fact ranger is just bad. And ppl cry because they compare ranger to archer alot. If u compare archer to lahn or mystic its not that op in fact.
    For me playing archer i think maybe nerf shift e but still not like other class cant do that dmg in mele combo anyway so not that op.
     
  14. Kauni

    Kauni Archer 62 EU

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    Yes you can, if you noticed the stiff in time and did't use any other movement spell already. If you did, you rarely can hit it in time.

    And that's the bad part about archers situation right now. We have to waste our only iframe (assuming winged strike is on cd) to get a second kd on an already scuffed combo because we are using one damage skill of our damage combo as a cc.

    You will never ever succeed to do a point blank full bloom in large scale (unless you both are skirmishing somewhere in nowhere out of position and you had a lucky cc) and not even in 1vs2. Even using it 1vs1 is only possible against few classes like ninja simply just because they are always on our ass.

    giving meteor dive a fg instead of sa is a horrible idea. Our already 2 existing gaps in meteor dive are bad enough, making it worse won't help anyone. Removing stiff is prolly the worst. How do you want to bypass someones fg then? Ninjas movement is pretty much iframe -> fg rotation, what do you want to do against that without meteor dive stiff?

    Ranger is better in 1vs1 than archer due to better iframe and grab. If someone rushes archer, then you get grabbed and killed at some point since you do no damage if you are busy running away. Ranger will just iframe, grab, one combo. Ranger is just way harder to play in large scale than archer but nowhere worse than archer in 1vs1.
    I never liked the point blank damage on full bloom but after removing the KD, removing the damage as well would make the skill pretty much useless. Like what would be the purpose of that 7 sec cd unprotected skill?

    Btw you from NA or EU?
     
  15. stalas

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    im from na and i hope they dont nerf anythin and buff some animation speed on shotgun pre awak and stuff like that but i guess they will nerf it becasue ppl crying so..
    i have 650D on my ranger and yea u have some protection and a grab with grab combo but other than that ranger is slower because they dont have leap skill. archer roll kd = ees on ranger +- and ranger dash is trash
    + ranger have no hp recovery os close to nothing range dps is fine but 0 range protection and onliy 6 sec kd and 12 sec stun so :#
     
  16. Kauni

    Kauni Archer 62 EU

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    Sadly not, the iframe is the worst in the game meanwhile ees is almost a lingering iframe :-P
     
  17. Malkontent

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  18. Kauni

    Kauni Archer 62 EU

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  19. Malkontent

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    No I mean exactly what you said. No archer nerfs.
     
  20. Mido

    Mido Archer 62 EU

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    This myth again... archer can't cc someone outside his render range.
     

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