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BDO - A Basic Gestalt: The Clash of Western and Eastern Values

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Dremlock, Jan 30, 2018.

  1. Dremlock

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    knowing Japanese unironically constitutes instant invite to baka. Perhaps even officer status. (P.S. pls teach me japanese)


    You're too kind! I'm don't deserve such high praise so beautifully written. It is my dream that one day I will receive accolades for pseudointellectual bull ****
     
  2. Soulscar

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    Arguably the most tragically ironic statement to be read aloud in the history of mankind. Even more ironic is the fact people still believe hard work and honesty ever made a millionaire.

    Success is built on how you control another persons wealth comparatively. To be continually successful at something in a collective, others in that collective must have comparatively less. As such the easiest way to remain successful is to restrict others by whatever means. Easiest way to do that is to spread hope where none or very little exists. People take chances for another to capitalise on the inevitable "success" of their failure.

    Life skill players sell their goods to people in the hope their 50000th attempt at upgrading their alchemy stone works. There would be no economy without RNG to be fair.

    In BDO people advertise top gear like they got all of it though risk vs reward. In reality most grind silver and put buy orders or snipe while encouraging everyone else to burn their gear to pri so they can buy your hard earned tet because you now need the cash to upgrade your potato gear.

    I find some RNG fun for the most part, but the thing with RNG? The only way to guarantee success is to find a way to remove it. Otherwise it is possible to never succeed, or more accurately always fail eventually.

    Fix the game to your favor if you want to win, but mainly have fun doing it. Nothing in life is fair, nothing in BDO is fair.

    The east and the west have the same endgame, they just go about it culturally and economically differently.
     
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  3. Dremlock

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    Appropriate that your name is Soulscar cuz that **** was dark

    good analysis tho
     
  4. bob349

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    I think the RNG complaint is leveled too heavily at BDO . I've played a number of Western MMO's that have similar systems. RNG based Evasion, and Resists are pretty common, and Asheron's Call also had an RNG upgrade system called 'Tinkering' with the chance to fail destroying your item in some cases, or downgrading stats in others.

    Don't bosses in WOW have a chance to drop gear rather than guaranteed? Dark Age of Camelot certainly did.
     
  5. Redarion

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    Relax. It's just a video game. Nothing more.
     
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  6. Desado

    Desado Wizard 62 NA

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    Dremlock is important, you should feel Dremlcok is important too.
     
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  7. Sibyyl

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    After a period of destroying gear and making billions disappear instantly in the Black Spirit window, imagine what you would feel if you got a TET Ogre.

    That little exhilaration alone will keep you going months.

    RNG isn't just a silly little mechanic in BDO. It's the crack you are addicted to.

    Edit: I think it's a safe assumption Drem likes crack.
     
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  8. flukeSG2

    flukeSG2 Tamer 62 NA

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    @Dremlock are you running for president?
     
  9. Noixi

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    Nice post.

    But....

    Factors that are not in consideration.

    1) Controlling Avatarism. Yes, avatarism is a word. Controlling avatarism is a very big part of the equation of how the developers/owners implement the game. Perhaps the greatest. This ranges from allowing men to play female characters so they can watch the female toon's but, to allowing people to get pink dyes for all of their gear, to allowing die-hard grinders to grind 20+ hours a day to make in-game money. The vanity of the devs/owners goes WAY beyond one's culture.

    2) Ownership vs Developers. Maybe put another way, the stake holders vs the engineers/artists. Software development is an art and engineering at the same time. But stake holders may not have any capability, understanding, and/or patience-to-deal-with art and/or engineering. In MMORPG, the amount of time, resources, and money is like MILLIONS of dollars worth of time/resources, if not pure money, to even slightly get a game off the ground. And this usually leads to a HUGE divide between the stake holders vs the developers in what is allowed.

    Taking (1) into account vs culture. Suppose to South Korea, or to Asian cultural values, the color blue, on any clothing is considered culturally wrong. But in the game, players who like the color blue MAY go WAY WAY WAY out of their way to get all their gear blue, and COMPLAIN about it all the way till Sunday to the devs, if they can't get it. Likewise, if players DESPISE grouping, they may go way out of their way to never group, and flaunt this in the face of everyone else. I could go on. So, if you are a game developing company, and you want people to play your game, where otherwise you can't FORCE them, you have to allow for people's individual avatarism, or at least to the most favored avatarism of people, so as to attract as many people as you can.. Fail to do this, and people won't show up, or maybe they will, but leave shortly, and make a BIG GIANT PUBLIC STINK on the way out. So... what a game manufacturer may try, is give everyone what they want up front, but then slowly chisel it down to what the devs/owners want. WoW did this, and it ruined the game. It seems BDO is now doing this.

    Taking (2) into account. Let's say the owners want South Koran flag colors and symbols ONLY on guild logos. That's red, white, black, and a kind of blue in a ying/yang symbol. The devs go HUH WHAT?!?!?! No green? No purple? No North Korea flag like star symbol? Well, the color limitation may not be too difficult, but to enforce the no star limit may limit what the devs can allow. Assuredly, they would not be able to allow the picture like symbols BDO has now for guild logos; Cause to try and make some weird AI logic to try and detect a North Korean flag like star symbol would be ridiculous. But guess what! Some MMORPG's like WoW, actually did stupid things like this. They actually did not allow their transmog to let players depict a fish weapon, onto an epic piece of gear, and they actually went out of their way, to code in rules, to prevent the fish weapon from being used as a transmog onto epic gear. WoW actually did this. WoW's dev's even said they would not allow such things before releasing transmogs.

    So, what happens to the game when (1) and (2) get out of control.

    It's called BALANCE MONGERING. A phrase I made. Do a google on it.

    It eventually gets to the point, where all game content and the use/play of it, is monitored and measured, with punishment and counter measures applied to enforce the desired outcome.

    In game right now for BDO, we see this in play on NO ranged dps (the blizzards spell included, as well as Hwacha's and Flame throwers), and where falling is like a retarded mini-game, that can literally loop you back to the top, and keep you falling for seconds, because of (2) being abused, that the devs/owners would rather DIE than fix it. Literally, the dev's after all this time, can't figure a way to fix this, and the owners have just kind of hushed all discord on it. So, as it stands, the retard-fall-mini0game stands, to prevent anyone from having a chance to maybe hack their location in the game, from their retarded AI logic, which has to approve your falling AS-IT-OCCURS, or they won't allow it. Iwon';t even go into the lag issues ever not getting fixed because (2) is so abused.

    TLDR...

    To the OP, your post is very interesting, but things like (1) being abused to have axes so powerful from the recent +20% buff, I assure you, has nothing to do with any culture. I'd dare say, 99.99999%+ of the entire human population, has probably not used an axe for more than 5 hours of their entire life. But yet, right now, PvP is controlled by the ALMIGHTY AXE. Not some western culture approved mini skirt. And the technical pains, which still linger, like the falling-retard-mini-game or the ever occurring lag issues, are where (2) is abused, and not say some western culturally approved view of how falling should occur.
     
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  10. Alexandrious

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    [​IMG]
     
  11. ODB3698

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    Or your rng "seed". I'm convinced they apply a seed number to individual player's rng that further affects it and never update that seed..../tinfoil
     
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  12. Viragos

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    Well said friend, the reddit spacing adds a nice touch to the formatting and helps gets across short and concise ideas for us brainlets. I'm looking forward to part 2.
    1510606345627.png
     
  13. NatashaArisha

    NatashaArisha ShinobuAraragi Witch 61 NA

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    East: You better get an A or we kick you out of the house.

    West: I see that you get a C but here's your participation trophy anyway.
     
  14. Nyhver

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    That's... unfortunate. A goal short-lived. One of the many theses put forth should be about the behavior monitors and in-group with labeling anything other than banally boring as edgy, try hard and pseudo intellectual, being a bunch of detestable normies and want-to-be-normies.

    You and a lot of others already have accolades for pseudointellectual bull!@#!, and it happened a long time ago when you stepped out of line.

    There it is!

    The trademark. You're right about axes being too good, that's for better and worse because NW bases are too tanky.
     
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  15. Coeprandua

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    Is this a bait to bring my paranoia on? I am prone to such beliefs as well. For one thing, my toons have always had different luck with gathering. Some find a lot less shards than others. At first I attributed this to birth signs, but it might just be a seed they were born with. What bothers me and makes this very likely is that PA has every reason to create substantial differences between players. Like someone very wisely said, Korean MMOs thrive on showing you what kind of luck others have. It drives you forward because it suggests that high end gear is possible. It also makes you spend on p2w as a catch-up. Whatever. Being aware that it is their strategy helps somewhat with resisting it. It's like real life, no two persons are ever born equal.
     
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  16. Dremlock

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    [​IMG]

    I wonder why it took them so long for them to move this thread to the forum dumpster this time. I guess they were debating whether or not a discussion about why BDO gameplay is frustrating belongs in a forum about BDO gameplay

    In the OP i was trying to establish a foundation for why things in BDO always felt slightly... off. Which I mainly attribute to western embrace of the enlightenment and Christianity, something that did not happen in Asia. I think this causes many things to be lost in translation, philosophical elements of BDO included.

    However you seem to be getting into something additional. After we get passed the idea the East and West have cultural differences, then comes all the trials and tribulations that come with making and MMORPG. Such as a Dev's willingness to allow customization. In this regard, I'd say the East and West both are in accord and take a very modern approach. A high degree of customization which isn't terribly concerned with cultural stigma.

    It's one dream among many.

    You're right though, someone should bring light to the normie driven narrative in BDO. It's a problem. Write it so it can be moved to off-topic by the very normans you protest despite it literally being about BDO
     
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  17. Noixi

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    Thanks Dremlock. Again, great post.
    I look forward to your next one.
     
  18. Nyhver

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    For you and @Dremlock



    A buddy linked it to me but it mentions the Pareto distribution
     
  19. Breg

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    "
    That RNG happens is a statistical rule. Do you really think that the sweat on your brow and the hard work you put in will alter the statistical probability of how many heads or tails you get when you flip a coin?


    All peoples on earth are a determined people .. enough so that your comment elevating people of the US is pointless self flagellating hyperbole (because no doubt that's what you mean, conveniently forgetting that there's more to the Americas than good 'ole USA).


    Ever heard of Kung Fu? It basically means skill achieved through hard work over time ( a Chinese phrase reflecting a universal value known across mankind).


    Your post Mr. Dremlock serves to perpetuate what the rest of the world get tired of hearing ... that the peoples and the ideas of the US are the epicenter of the universe.


    Finally, why would any *god* (if they exist) bless one particular group of his creation over and above any other, and WTF has it got to do with an MMO? Particularly as you so pridefully stated (and I paraphrase) ... "Hamurricans revere hard work and believe they control their own destiny ..." . Sounds confused and contradictory.
     
  20. Breg

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    Nope .. Tolkien was certainly a very good story teller ... but story telling, pantomime and roll play is as old as man.
     

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