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BDO should focus more on how it presents its Story/Lore

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Maevynn, Jul 27, 2017.

  1. Maevynn

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    As it stands, BDO's questlines are the bare minimum of effort every time. They're extremely minimal without any cutscenes past Calpheon, and there aren't any storylines with characters that are memorable in any way. Black Desert is severely lacking in the story department, and hearing Pearl Abyss speak on this makes it even more baffling.

    They talk about doing things like adding instanced areas for important story quests, how future updates will explore the story of different ethnic groups/races/concepts—And yet we don't see any of this actually playing out in a way that's particularly exciting or engaging. The story is there, and after a certain point (I'd say Mediah) it really picks up and starts being pretty interesting—but it isn't actually presented in a way that's interesting.

    Plenty of people would actually be interested in BDO's story, games like FFXIV are well-known for having an amazing storyline. The only reason that most don't stick around or don't make it known is because there really isn't all that much to go off of. I think that if BDO focused more on its story, even just a bit, it could really be something spectacular.

    Story can tie into PvE, PvP, and basically every facet of the game if you let it. We aren't the "big hero" in most questlines and that's entirely okay. I like PA's quirky way of presenting us questlines where the people don't seem to recognize us as heroes all the time. But it still would be nice if we could get some more focus on presenting the story in a way that's engaging, gets people involved, and can even get people excited to see where the story leads.
     
  2. Taj

    Taj Shai 61 EU

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    There's a story?
     
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  3. Maevynn

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    It's how often this can be said about BDO that's basically the point I'm making, really.

    The story is just so easily ignored and unimportant that it doesn't matter. And it's so unengaging and boring that nobody would want to wade through it.
     
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  4. Taj

    Taj Shai 61 EU

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    It's sad.. I'm normally a sucker for a decent story in games, but BDO fails in all aspects, not even a little have I been drawn in to read it or search for more information.
     
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  5. Maevynn

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    Makes me sad too. I'm hoping they can address it sometime. :(
     
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  6. Ihmbreil

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    I stumbled upon a few bits of lore here in the forums and the wild wild interwebs. The stories are actually interesting and helps me feel a bit more attached to the game. I too wish they would refine and surface the stories in a better way in the game. Understandably there is a price tag to the business for this but IMO would help draw/keep some people in the game thus upping the numbers for income.

    Will be interesting to see how BDO grows and scales, I'm hopeful it goes well as my time thus far in BDO has been entertaining and ejoyable. I am a little worried as of late though, the team that brings us this great game may be taking on too much and start sacrificing quaility for the gem they currently possess for the promise of obtaining a bigger audience which is risky and expensive. Most of the great games I've played did not become big because they wanted numbers, they first created a game that was entertaining and they themselves wanted to play. Todd Howard probably has one of the perspectives for game creation that I can see why the Elder Scrolls Franchise came from nowhere and is now as big as it is today. But I'm afraid when EA and Activision and other huge game companies report the large profit numbers that they do stuff like lore easily becomes that hat box in the closet. Sorry for the rambling at the end here ;)

    The lore at least helps give me some faith they have a grand vision and details for that vision. The magic is in the execution.

    Thanks for the thread.
     
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  7. Bubblepuff

    Bubblepuff Bubblepuff Shai 64 EU

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    Who cares about story when you have BOOBS
    anigif_enhanced-22146-1391020911-22.gif

    Seriously though, I wanted to get into the story at first, and read the dialogue for about every quest until around calpheon. After that, I started skipping it.
     
  8. Catastigma

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    BDO is not a themepark mmorpg.. the lore is completly useless in fact.. anyway i dont want to see Edan and Orwen. these stupid Trisomic 21 Character...
     
  9. Joungf

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    After playing BDO for so long I can say it is a MMO - but not a RPG. All the necessary RPG elements including a correct, growing, evolving lore and all your decisions and actions which affect the relationship between your character and all the NPCs of the different "fractions", are missing.
     
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  10. Maevynn

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    You don't have to see Edan and Orwen for them to work on the story/lore. They're severely boring characters.

    The lore they've worked on extremely intensely with every expansion, and with every awakening. If they do include a story, nothing says you have to wade through it if you don't want to though, I think the method they've gone for is interesting but executed horribly.
    The lore is there, actually fairly complex, and continues to expand with every new area. We have lore on what the astrological signs mean for personality traits, we have lore on the commandments of the Valencian God, we have so much new lore on the elves in Kama 1 and Kama 2 it's staggering and honestly a bit overwhelming to sift through (which is half of the fun).

    All of your decisions and actions making a difference... isn't all that common anymore. GW2 for instance, your decisions mean absolutely nothing. It's a common criticism of Skyrim as well, the vast majority of your actions get streamlined into one conclusion. However, we can't have massive decisions like the Stormcloaks vs. Imperials—as this is an MMO. It has to be smaller.

    Which is why I was saying they have to work on the story aspect. They continually update the storylines for every new area, make up lore for what's going on in the story, they talk about the story during some interviews even. Which is where I think we're severely lacking. And it's where the "choices" would come in. They even said the main point of the Kamasylvia → Dragan expansions was to explore the storyline/lore/history of the Elves, Dwarves, and Giants. However, the storyline is still "go talk to this one npc, read a little bit of text, kill a few things, collect this item, run back" over-and-over again. It's there, it's actually pretty interesting in terms of what lore they present. But it's lifeless.
     
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  11. Dalenos

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    There was a story with video stuff any everything. But they remove it for some reason >.>
     
  12. Joungf

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    Sure, BDO has a lore and with every new expansion (land, class, ...) it gets updated. But to be honest it looks more like a "must be done" without any logic, connection between races, classes, etc., immersion and passion. It is and continuously becomes accessible and lifeless. If you can not immerse into the story, you can not feel to be a part of it. Honestly, I always feel like an alien on that planet BDO because there is nothing that gives me a familiar feeling, no matter which class I am playing.
     
  13. Shenya

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    I don't disagree with OP at all, I mean I'd certainly like something I could get my teeth into more. In fact, I've had more lore thrown at me trying to complete knowledge stuff than I think I did reaching level 56 through the story.

    However, it's like this in most mmos I've played. Also, thanks to bad translations, often the texts aren't worth reading. Then of course, you have what is probably the good majority of players, who care about one thing alone, and that's LEVEL LEVEL LEVEL. Spam that R key as fast as possible and run off to the quest marker. I mean I became guilty of this after a while too, not because I was in any hurry to level, but because the poor writing just put me off of what has otherwise been a really great experience.

    I'm really not sure why translations in so many games are so poor. I mean, I know people that speak other languages than their native one fluently. In fact, even if I were to use google translate on the original Korean text, I wouldn't enter it word for word, I'd read it, laugh, but be able to get the general idea and rewrite the text in a coherent and interesting manner. When translations are bad, I can only assume they did not pay for someone that can either A) speak the two different languages or B) read or write the target language with any proficiency. I mean even if you can't read the original language well, if you are a native speaker of the target language, there's no reason for the text to not make sense, surely?

    As for the cutscenes and stuff, I fear this game will go the way so many before have. A luscious rich world with so much to see, that as time goes on, new players will see less and less of as the story gets continually cut away in order to progress leveling much quicker (and I thought it was SUPER fast, especially 1-50 as it was!). I hope that's not the case, to me that essentially says that all the low levels are completely pointless, as is the part of the game world that supported them, and they might as well give an instant 60 instead. For me, one of my favorite parts about starting a new character is going through all of the world again.

    TL;DR I too would love a better presented story, but I fear this is more likely to be scaled back than to be fleshed out further as time goes on. :(
     
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  14. Joungf

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    Totally agree with you.
     
  15. Maevynn

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    There's plenty of connection points between the classes and races and where they come from. They've expanded a lot on that with Awakenings and further storylines. They in fact work on connecting things as they go. It isn't a "must be done" sort of thing when they're adding in more information than we've ever had about a lot of topics, and bringing up entirely new topics that don't even necessarily have to do with the story. If anything it's actually been getting deeper as time goes on.

    For example, with a creature in Kamasylvia they could have just as easily said "It's a creature in X territory." and left it at that, but instead they make a whole questline around its habitat, breeding habits (or lack thereof, in the case I'm thinking of), how it's being poached by hunters from outside of Kamasylvia (who were allowed in thanks to a lot of its own lore—there was a complete border lockdown before Kama 1), what it means culturally to the people there. They didn't need to do all that, but they did. And it's how it looks all over the game, especially in later areas. You can see it in Mediah and in Valencia pretty clearly.

    If you didn't personally delve into them and collect all of that knowledge that's totally fine, and if you haven't seen a lot of what's out there I get it—But they even started putting out more lore than they used to. They're adding more to the game than they ever bothered to before. But people don't see any of that because they don't do the quests, they don't do the storylines, they don't talk to the NPCs, they don't gather knowledge.

    Why is that? Presentation, Accessibility, and Fun. All lacking.

    Every other person says "They're skipping out on the lore, it's generic, it's lifeless." Because they got turned off early on and don't actually look for it. If it isn't obviously thrown in their face they say it isn't there.

    And as I said in the OP and after, the main story is unacceptable. I agree, you can't immerse yourself into it, you can't feel a part of it. I will never in my life defend that mess. The storylines are lifeless and for the most part uninteresting. The way you see the lore is entirely uninteresting—And that's the point of the thread. The information is there, the lore's there. They don't do a good job in giving it to us in a way that's actually entertaining, so most people never learn about what's going on because they don't care to. In that case it isn't from a lack of information, or even the information itself being uninteresting (they do a lot of stuff that's actually pretty unique)—it's from people not wanting to be bothered to look for it.
    Yes, I agree on some points. I think they definitely started cutting back—especially early on. BDO went through some major shifts in its lore, and at one point basically everything was re-written from the ground up. The translations are completely unacceptable and I can't blame anyone for not sticking with the quests.

    I do also think it's more likely to be scaled back than to be fleshed out, which is why we have to voice that we want it to be fleshed out even if we don't expect it to happen. If we never voice our concerns about it and say we'd like it to be better—It isn't going to happen. All they'll see is the voice of "the majority of players, who care about one thing alone". I'm not saying this all even has a strong chance of reaching PA, it stands to reason that most suggestions don't and never will, but even if I know that it isn't likely I'm still willing to do my part regardless to at least try for something better in that regard.

    Because it seems like PA at least at one point originally really wanted to, and in KR obviously they don't suffer from the translation issues. What KR is experiencing is tons of new lore with every area, in areas they really didn't have to expand on—but chose to. From that perspective, what the issue is, is actually Kakao's handling in terms of the translations—not the developers, who don't handle that.
     
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  16. Joungf

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    Yes, I agree with you. But from a RPG I expect at least the record and consequences of your action. Example: In Calpheon you can do quest for the guards (e.g. take care of the protesters, catch criminals, etc...). You can also do quest for the protesters, poor people (steal something, conspiracy, etc. ...) in parallel. If you do something against the interests of the one "fraction" then you should be not so fame for then or you should be hated or hunted by them. Actually you do not take part in the lore and in the different "fractions" who "rule" different parts of BDO od do have different interests.
     
    #16 Joungf, Aug 6, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2017
  17. Maevynn

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    Yeah, they added some "light choices" here-and-there, but ultimately it doesn't factor into all that much. A lot of it probably has to do with the fact that the "factions" are something you zip by in the course of 2-3 quests.

    Like imagine if they entirely redid the Calpheon vs. Serendia thing, and you could rat out Jordine. Completely cuts off story quests in Heidel from most native Heidelians, but then the Calpheonians there start opening up to you and giving you their own quests with equivalent rewards. It'd be pretty sweet to see that kind of impact character-to-character.
     
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  18. Shenya

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    I will stand with you!
     
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  19. Shenya

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    @Maevynn

    I agree with you on all points by the way. I am always the first one to be sad when a game starts making cuts to the experience, I don't understand why all the work of making such an environment is so eagerly tossed away. If I come into a game late, I don't want the watered down easy mode skip past most of it and have no fun fighting the mobs. I'm much more likely to enjoy it if I'm being served a fully fleshed and honed experience that is based on "the whole of our game is great" rather than "yeah, we agree, this was all pointless stuff, let's make the mobs useless and skip most of them anyway, you don't need to see all that lovely scenery we made and level 60 is just around the corner if you stick with it just a little bit longer".

    I really feel with a marketplace that works the way it does, all the lifeskills that you can get into, with a little bit of effort, any new player can get their teeth into it and expect to get reasonably geared compared to the majority. I bought this game almost a year before I started playing it, and it'd been out a couple of months prior to my buying it. I may not have great gear, but I've certainly made over 1 billion and geared my 2 characters and I have played it at my own (very slow) pace. Only one of my characters recently hit 56, I have spent more time doing farming and horse training, more recently knowledge quests etc. I love how many different ways there are for me to spend my time, and I don't feel it needs to be any easier than it already is for new players to get started. I don't like when a game has so many things right and then makes so many changes, that even the good things no longer matter. Combat for instance, in games that had great combat, making all the mobs and bosses continually easier for new players to effectively just solo through, did not make the game more alluring to me as I started new characters, I didn't have to take advantage of most of what it had going for it. Why bother to dodge something if it doesn't hurt? Why bother to think about how many things you are about to take on, if you can one shot the entire group anyway?

    TL;DR I will sign your petition
     
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  20. Shenya

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    Imagine if a game moved beyond the standard quest fare and like you say, have what you choose to do in quests, impact other quests. This game seems like it was almost getting ready to do that with the amity system. How you complete a quest should be impacting amity for instance. Imagine if your stats changed based on who and what you did. Quest giver one tells you he needs you to go and kill a vampire for him because he's a holy assassin of light. Killing said vampire gives you skill points toward skills that are strong against things that are dark. Alternatively, you get to said vampire, talk to him, and after hearing what he has to say, decide to instead do some favor for the vampire, now you get some points towards a different specialized skill set, gain amity with him that helps you talk to more vamps if this is a path you wish to put more time into, and promptly lose amity with the original guy and his buddies too.

    TL;DR It's about time MMOs evolved or did something revolutionary, especially where quests are concerned. I can think of any number of ways to make them not only more interesting, but actually have value and make two people that started out as the exact same thing, two very different things as the game progresses.
     
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