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BDO, the state of play.

Discussion in 'General Gameplay' started by Blusurfer, Oct 15, 2018.

  1. Blusurfer

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    It's with great sadness and a bit of humor, that I write this post. Sad because of the toxic environment Black Desert Online is providing. Humor, as you can take it as you take it.

    I paid $49.99 for this game, and it's a gorgeous game. In depth by offering a multitude of interest areas. Horse breeding, Sailing, farming, well you know the list.

    So let's break the game up into the core class skill mechanics and all the other facets of the game that involves RNG. Whilst we can complain about the Renowned changes, the classes are in my opinion the least of our trouble. So let's concentrate on the RNG / Luck / Player manipulation aspects.

    If you realise it or not, Pearl Abyss or Kakao or whoever is driving the game's income, is manipulating the players for their own benefit. Let's call them 'the devs'. It's been proven that the devs decide what a 'Lucky box' provides to the 'winner'. It's not an RNG / Chocolate wheel / Luck thing at all. The devs decide what you'll get. And this is manipulation. Remember Red Nose day?

    We all know the P2W changes of costume melting, Valk's Cry and Cron Stones was implemented. And not surprisingly the rewards and Lucky Boxes produced, you guessed it, cron stones, valk's crys and maybe lessor, memory frags. Of course this is to condition the players towards what the devs want to push. And currently that is cron protected gear enhancement.

    What Pearl Abyss and Kakao have failed at is a fatal sales error. And that is not understanding your customer. Simply put, NA players don't have the gambling mindset that the Asian players have. Western upbringing is about winning, not losing. There is no upside to losing and so when the players on NA lose they get sick of it and stop. Likewise I would suggest NA players are less likely to spend huge amounts on the pearl shop items. Yes we've had a big step forward with PEN items, but I'd suggest this is more so players melting unwanted costumes and not buying lots of new ones.

    This game in the majority has a negative effect on a person’s existence. You’ve seen people rage, you've seen people sit in emotionless depressed silence when 'RNG' attempts fail. The game breeds toxicity.

    Due to the past behaviour of the devs there is nothing in this game that indicates they can be trusted. And unfortunately for them this also breeds suspicion of their actions and more disengagement by the players. Our new white Tier 7 horse missing a skill that the tool tip said existed. Rather than provide the advertised skill, they just changed the tool tip. But if it wasn't supposed to be there, why was it in the reward description at all? And if it was a mistake why was it that valuable skill and not a worthless skill mistakenly added?

    I bought a pair of Bheg's Gloves from the NV for 88 mil. Now maybe no one had a PO in but I'd say people probably did. But funnily they skipped pre-order and sold for 66 mill. So a net loss for me even with a VP. Just chance? Just luck? Or did the devs know I purchased from NV at a low amount and just wanted to suck more silver out of my account? Probably we'll never know, but with the lack of concrete information it's what you think it logically is.

    You see this aim of this game is to make the players poor. To have zero silver and to spend more time in game. Which leads me to the subject of AFK everything and the rewards for never turning your PC off. Someone raised the concern that part of the code is a Crypto Currency engine. Now this hasn't been denied by the devs, but again why reward a player for staying online? I mean if I wanted to AFK fish or process I could for their own benefits, but why the rewards? Maybe to entice the players to buy the pearl outfits? But maybe not.

    Pretty much everything you lose silver on. The market place is not a free economy but of course the devs manipulate the game and players by controlling the market prices. Need more silver sucked out of the players, just put the prices up. Mainly items linked to the Cash shop. Who would have guessed.

    Pearl items provide another suspicion of manipulation. Many people have stated they believe that as soon as you buy Artisan's Memory you enhancing success gets worse. Buying pearls gives you better odds of market place success. I have bid 49 times on an outfit with no success. I buy pearls and the next attempt is successful. Yet talking about sucking silver out of my account, I've picked up sort after TET items, TRI items first attempt on about six occasions.

    On enhancing I suspect you need to spend a certain amount of silver on an item before you get success. Again suspicion but who knows with the devs past behavior?

    So here we are in a position that you can argue is all 'RNG' but on the counter could all be manipulation. So until facts are published can the devs be trusted at all? Do you like being a pawn under their finger? I'm not begrudging the devs make a profit. They are a business but if things were more transparent for players it would be imo better.

    I guess it depends if you care or not. And if you're happy to for a company to benefit from your manipulation.

    I love the game, but wouldn't trust Pearl Abyss or Kakao as far as I could throw them.
     
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  2. Shenzaar

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  3. Andaro

    Andaro Archive
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    I know we all need to vent sometimes....its healthy to get things off your chest.

    Are there any particular individual suggestions you might like to add?
     
  4. Blusurfer

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    If this question to me or the twat who pasted the huge picture of tin foil? And of course there's nothing wrong with his opinion. It's just shallow and misses the point entirely. Maybe they can't read English well?

    If it is to me then one of the first changes they could implement is an increase of fail stack size when you use Cron stones and it fails. Currently as you know your fail stack stays the same size. So again you rely on an unpublished chance. I for one don't agree with this chance method as why should one player be carried and one carrier in theory never achieving the same level of gear? I mean why should I get a PRI at 10 stacks and someone else fail 12 times in row?

    Certainly with Caphas stone there is a mechanic to elevate the chance of success but the realities are it's not anything other than theoretical for most players.

    Here's a off topic question. All these online Poker sites have to shuffle the cards. Is there a 'best method' for shuffling? By that I mean it'd have to be a algorithm right? So in the interests of the public why aren't these open for the public to see? Why doesn't the government or whatever authority is in charge of this gambling dictating all Poker sites must submit their own algorithm and the most successful of all algorithm be enforced to be used by all gambling sites? Would that not make sense?

    So why all the mystery / hidden 'rng' in BDO? It's this nondisclosure that is adding to the downfall of the game.

    Pretty much PA and kakao need to rethink their market strategy. Charge all players $10 per month and make the game more progressive friendly. I like PvP but now after the last change I can't play for any enjoyment.
     
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  5. Shenzaar

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    oh i can read english...i just cant understand why this post (which is full of conjecture and nonsense) was placed in the suggestion forum...and neither could the other poster here apparently...maybe its YOU who cant read english....hhmmmm what could "suggestion" forum be used for? hmmm my hair brained conspiracy theories OR maybe...just maybe....SUGGESTIONS. Lets try this again shall we ?

    even after all your babbling,we have still yet to see a suggestion in all this tinfoil nonsense.:)
     
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  6. Andaro

    Andaro Archive
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    There really is no point in beating around the bush these days. The upgrade system (and this is not just for BDO, but for many many many game) is designed to be the ultimate silver sink via chance. That is something that will never change. So we have to find ways to compliment that system to prevent what you described.

    Our biggest step forward in that, was the Caphras system. You will have to explain to me what you mean by "theoretical for most players".

    As for gambling? I don't how to not just simply say, this is the real world. I don't mean any dis-respect in that statement, I just mean simply that what you are suggesting is not reality. The reality is *every company* is out to get your money, including the government. So chock that up to it is what it is. I'm not going into a rhetorical debate over the monetization practices of gaming companies because even though they are predatorial, so are the marketing practices of the your local shoppe down the street. We should never blame anyone for our buying decisions, no matter what we buy, or how. I am sorry, but I will always remain completely firm against trying to unload what is ultimately my responsibility of onto someone else, something, or other. We do what we choose to do, and that's that.


    You're unhappy with the RNG Upgrade system I believe, as a primary point, and I agree, it sucks. I am personally used to it because my first game was a korean silver grinder, and it had the same system, only slightly worse; but I recognize in 2018 (now 12 years later) that most people are not used to that sort of thing, and it can be very depressing.

    So here is what I want from you, and everyone that shares your same frustration and melancholy, regarding any type of game content.
    Find the *small change* that would make something just *a little better*, meaning "if it just this, i'd be happy" and lets talk about that. For example, obviously caphras is a good system....I think most people agree with that.....and the biggest complaint about it are "the amount needed", "time it takes to get them", etc. and hey, that's something to be worked on isn't it? The biggest challenge was overcome and that was getting the system in the first place...the hard part is over with.

    The time for generalizing issues is over with.
    The time for specific targeted solutions is now.
     
  7. 2Cents

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    This post really changed my mind. I had been oblivious to this going on for 20 years. I missed every forum, tweet, video, discord, game chat, and lived in a cave for many years. When I came out I found this post.

    I can't believe they would do such a thing. Thank goodness you are here to save us all.

    I wonder what's going on in Archeage, Allods, EA. Maybe worth investigating?
     
  8. Coeprandua

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    The only thing you can reform here is yourself. Lower your expectations to zero, you'll have fun.
     
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  9. Andaro

    Andaro Archive
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    funny you say that, I don't think I've ever played any game with "expectations".....not even really sure how you would apply them to a game, but that's just me

    I don't typically play a B2P game unless there's a trial, and the trial determines whether or not in captivated enough to purchase. BDO was an exception for me since I followed our guild here.
     
  10. Coeprandua

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    Good thing you had a guild to follow, then. Without the ability to have expectations or someone to follow, you'd have to choose your games randomly. Do you always choose your movies randomly?
     
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  11. Blusurfer

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    Hi bud, see this is where opinions come into it. You have yours and I have mine. Yours is right to you and mine likewise. What you call nonsense I see as a valid argument. And without proof one can only come to an understanding of what those particular observations mean. It's the old "looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck" situation I guess. To you it's not a duck, but to me it is.

    "Conspiracy Theories" is way over used these days and a put down suggesting the other person's view is invalid. Yeah is a term easily tossed out when you'd rather not take an educated comprehension of what the other person is saying.

    It's in the suggestions, because there is no feedback section, and also with this, I believe my whole post is a suggestion to change the game.
     
  12. Blusurfer

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    I have to agree with you 2Cents, your response certainly indicates Neanderthal level thinking. Maybe living in that caves for many years? Or maybe just your general level of mental capability? You tell me.

    So from your point of view, no one should post this subject? I mean it's been on every forum, tweet, video, discord, game chat so being a concern that has appeared on many types of media deems it invalid?

    Did I mention any other game in my post? Um no. Did I say it's not in any other game? Once again no. And how are those games going? Archeage is thriving is it? So your position is because other games do it, we have to be happy to suffer it as well? Riiight!

    You see I'm not concerned with other games. See even with your 20 years of oblivious existence you've missed I posted about BDO on the BDO forums. So maybe, just maybe I'm talking only about BDO?

    "Thank goodness you are here to save us all." Look, thanks for the props, but I'm not here to save anyone. I'd check that cave of yours for black mould. I reckon the neurotoxin spores are killing your brain cells.
     
    #12 Blusurfer, Oct 15, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2018
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  13. Kushina

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    Bdo in short words...AiU

    All is useless.... you have full pen?? you dont have content to do.... you dont have full pen?? Seahunting and reach full PEN..... OK this is bdo,
    A beautiful graphic without content ....AFK GAME
     
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  14. Columba

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    groundless opinions. guy with the tin foil hat was accurate, sorry.
     
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  15. Blusurfer

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    Prove they're groundless. Simple enough request. Prove your case and I'll change my opinion.

    Fact is you can't. So your opinion is nothing more than conjecture.
     
  16. Josh28

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    As much as I'd like to throw eggs at PA, the problem with bdo isn't Tin-foil conspiracies. That's giving them too much credit. They are just inept at making the right decisions to maximize their gains while making players happy. Or not doing right what they promised. Or breaking promises.

    There are subtle psychological marketing schemes, and devs can indeed change the % values, but not only is there no reliable proof of direct manipulation on loot, that's also inefficient since people have to get paid for it. What the devs will do here is statistics which helps a lot for marketing by knowing what people buy or to do changes in the game, but the decisions from the new PA management hardly benefit the player. It just adds more grief. Still, the conveniences piling up is the main problem since it's making the gap to free play wider. Blame time and normal greed.

    There have been leaks that other games do indeed alter things on some customers like preventing Whales from getting things from RNG box until they spent certain cash threshold. Google the games people data mined it to prove it. However, even PA isn't dumb enough... Furthermore, you can't blame patterns in RNG because it's just a simulation of randomness based on codes from a source that get re-used! It isn't even a real randomness and as much as I'd like to throw eggs at BDO's enchant, it's actually quite random compared to other games.

    i.e: In a certain game I failed something 17 times in a row with a 40% probability. That should be super rare in real life, yet it happened twice within 20 min. Although I did fail to +15 blue awk wep 138 times in a row... hmm... On the good hand though, it became TRI the second attempt and I made tons of fail stacks.
     
  17. 2Cents

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    The context was the problem. It's as if you decided to start shouting in the streets war is bad!!!! 2 Years after a Major World War. A little late to the game bud.
     
  18. Blusurfer

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    All good, appreciate you're opinion 2Cents.

    To throw in a historic quote... "“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil was that good men should do nothing.”"

    I don't believe the meaning is time limited.
     
  19. Blusurfer

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    Good post Josh. Having said that, some references you make are again your own understanding of a situation.

    Interesting your observation and mine. "On enhancing I suspect you need to spend a certain amount of silver on an item before you get success."

    So you spent heaps on +0 to +15 and sweet success on presumably PRI DUO and TRI so all your silver and frags were spent early on. And I suspect if you breeze +0 to +15 you'll have a hell of a lot of trouble from there. Again nothing as far as proof but interesting to contemplate.
     
  20. Josh28

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    Well, the only way to explain things without my understanding would be to show you all the proof and hope you believe it.
    The certain amount of silver on an item before you get success doesn't have to be direct manipulation. Probability can give you that result most of the time no matter what you apply it to. People did data-mining on BDo enhancing many times, and they found the average silver, but that's it.
    The problem lies in the RNG system itself. That's why we get the inconsistent results. To simulate true randomness in a game is actually hard and takes recourses, believe it or not. At least compared to real life randomness or quantum mechanics.
    The RNG in TERA is horrible. Months after the game came out, it became clear. Items were getting stuck on certain enchant. My item was a chest +8...took me over a month of farming to get it past +8 when that usually took 3 days. Other people had items stuck trying to make them Masterwork and keep failing with over 600 scrolls whereas it took me less than 10 for each of my items. It's like trying out something with 10% probability and fail 2000 times in a row. In real life that's really rare to happen but it was common in tera. People complained in the forums and many actually rage-quit the game because of that. In the end, the devs added a fail stack method like bdo to ensure that items couldn't fail forever because their rng sucks.
     

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