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Caphras grind

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by dobe, Jul 29, 2019.

  1. dobe

    dobe Lahn 60

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    BS Dont have the use in upgrade?Gambling 20/30 first FS for each enchant for duo & + is nothing?And if you succed you have to get it again just for an another try?BS IS the base for any enchant LV,even if you cron you have to get your early stack with BS.BS is for early,caphras is the way for end(hex).

    About caphras,you are looking on the balance of silver cost value of gear with cron/regular enchant/caphras and their (imaginary) relative cost to IRL moneis while i look on the balance of caphras looted relative to time spent on grinding and grindvalue of differents specialized spots,just acknowledge it and it will remove any further understanding hassle on our discussion.

    I profit to add an another thing of value for this thread here ,everywhere people say base pen boss gear is a luxury item,some people even say it should have considerable defense power because its a pen and they cry whenever they face on pvp 270 ap peoples.But the current AP/DP balance is 315 AP for 380 DP for a glass canon ap monkey build(c20pen everywhere),which mean for a full offensive ap monkey tet circle without caphras(~274AP) anything less than 350 dp is a glass canon,a full pen boss armor without caphras is 306 DP so kind of an OS for an AP c0tet circle(thx to 155 bonus Ap bracket).If we compare from stat only a full offensive AP c0tet circle can OS a full c0pen boss armor does that mean a c0pen boss armor is worth less than a tet ap acc?In my book c0pen boss armor is no longer a luxury item and should be way less expensive than it currently is for progression sake.c20pen boss armor is the new luxury item not a base pen boss armor.
    c20pen armor is like prereknown pen armor.
    c10pen armor is like prereknown tet armor.
    pen armor is like prereknown tri armor.
    Relative between AP/DP.

    If i were a devs i'd keep the caphras mechanic but feed blackstone instead (removing of caphras item),i'd halves all the cost of up to pen(including tri),keep the current cost for c1pen to c10pen and quadruple the cost up from c11pen to c20pen.And with it blackstone price should go back to its initial price(long timeago) of 400k/500k.
     
  2. Lord_Xenon

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    First I wrote BS don't have the same usefulness as caphras regarding upgrading. Not that they aren't used for it.
    Second even when you would remove BS from the world, you guess what? You would still be able to get failstacks.(quests, guaranteeed ones, perma, trashing of trash accs etc.). So their widely use isn't as needed(and you can split between 2 types) as you want to display.
    Third unlike caphras, you can't 'trade in' x stones for an upgrade.

    When you can create 5k silver item out of 5 caphras, then a caphras is worth 1k each. It's simple as that. No stupid pricing from you or the devs will change this basic economy rule. What the nonsense about RL money is(>>their (imaginary) relative cost to IRL moneis<<), is something I don't understand. I'm not speaking about money I speak about ingame value. Nothing to do with crons etc. in first place.

    >>while i look on the balance of caphras looted relative to time spent on grinding and grindvalue of differents specialized spots,just acknowledge it and it will remove any further understanding hassle on our discussion.<< Alni wrote a bit about this problem.

    First. You don't grind exclusive for that type of item. It just drop extra.
    Second when you would make it drop a lot, then you would need to balance it otherwise, mean that the mobs for example drop next to no trash loot or that this trash loot has very low value that en mass is still way lower than any other spot with that amount of clearspeed.
    Third a lot of caphras(regarding blackstone price) would literally kill the upgrade system, as when you get a reasonable amount to safe enhance, then why should you gamble your way up?

    And blackstones for 400k? Why that BS? It's nonsense.
     
  3. dobe

    dobe Lahn 60

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    Other "source" of failstack is only sustainable if you dont bother/lightly bother with upgrading yourself,for all other cases "other sources" is not sustainable(or for devour case sustainable until MP dry which become no longer sustainable).
    Caphras VS Blackstone it should not be anymore a subject of argumentating because for the same goals it have different uses and different mechanic behind them.

    I did understand what your wrote and wrapping up all you writtings from the beginning led me to think what i wrote on my last post,you on the other hand (atleast from my PoV) you only start to understand what i meant for all that time,@Ackure post was on point on both of our view,it merely described the current situation without adding an opinion of value(favorable/against) to the thread,you should read again his post and the entire thread while your are at it.

    If us player shouldnt grind specifically for this item when you need theses on a wholesale level then it is a failure of a design when we desperatly need them for pvp,what will happen if tomorrow the lifeskiller crowd get their population shrink into a quarter of itself?Caphras will no longer be sustainable for anyone ingame whatever from market or grinding...Its okay if you dont want to see the caphras price to be reduced but you should not write a design decision is good when it is obviously bad on so many levels....

    And yes blackstone was at 650k average for weapon and 500k average for armor on early days of BDO but why should you care about that?Because Even if devs decide to pick the ideas from the last paragraph of my last post you would get your infinitly sustainable ways of yours to not use blackstone to get fs anyway!
     
    #23 dobe, Aug 2, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2019
    Ackure likes this.
  4. Sevyrn

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    I agree with a few points here. I don't like that the caphra system is not a viable way to enhance gear and bypass RNG as initially stated prior to its release. It's foolish to use caphras to enhance your gear due to the sheer amount required, and the massive amount of stats obtained from caphras levels pushes players to save caphras for their pen gear. Despite having a bunch of caphras in my pen gear, I do agree that the bonus stats from caphra levels should be removed and caphras should be used for their original intention - bypassing RNG enhancing. That being said... Yeah the caphras grind is abysmal. Two or three things need to change:

    - Remove or nerf bonus stats from caphra levels(unlikely to happen).
    - Reduce the number of caphra stones required per caphra level OR drastically increase caphras drop rates(especially in high-end areas like sycraia, and gyfin).
    - The number of caphras rewards from Altar of Blood needs to be doubled or tripled. I can hardly even find anyone willing to run it anymore and it's only been a few weeks since release.

    I would very much like to see the game return to a state similar to launch, where most "endgame" players were sitting on +15 armors/weapons and pushing for acc upgrades, alternate gearsets, etc. except these days it would be PEN armors/weaps and pushing for accs, alternate gearsets for specific grind spots using bonus race damage/damage reduction, resists/crystal setups for min/maxing different spots, etc. Back in the day I loved to pause my grind for some pvp, or waste some silver gearing out an alt char, but these days the grind is so absurdly endless and p2w fueled that it feels like a waste of time if you're not gaining silver.
     
  5. bloodpuddle

    bloodpuddle Lahn 62

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    you could always pretend to be grinding for caphras but at the end of the grind you sell everything and buy caphras instead :) now trick your brain into thinking you grinded all these caphras! problem solved! :)
     
  6. Lord_Xenon

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    dobe, you fail to realize that the system of Caphras is not made to bypass enhancing in 1 day. Especially you fail extrem to look at everything it involves. Instead of giving answers you just refer to previous things.

    First what happen when caphras would drop 3-6 times more? How to balance things that drop them?
    Second how to balance the upgrade of items? Especially with ******** suggested price of yours?
    Third how to balance enhancing?

    Let's make a total BS example regarding your suggestion: 3k caphras to pen an item from tet with caphras max price of 300k. That would make them 900M worth for this item. Now look what 1! attempt to cronprotect said tet item would cost. First flaw.
    Okay ignoring the croning way. How about the traditional non guaranteed way:
    Tet to pen have ~3%(let's say 5% because make it easier) to succeed. Averaging out 1000 attempts result in 50 pens. But this mean 950 items got downgraded. Those would all need to be recovered back to tet. But that involves additional costs - either try upgrading or the caphras way.
    So to have roughly the same cost in caphras, a tri to tet would at max need 150 caphras. Else going that way would be total nonsense and would be better done directly by caphras. Oh ignoring the cost of materials of course! Like all those blackstones killed in fs, the other gears etc.
    So a sane person would instant order every caphras he get and never ever sell them - ignoring(removing in our minds levels for pen gear) caphras in pen gear.

    So all in all the normal way of enhancing through RNG would be total killed as it's nonsense to do it that way, when caphras are 1) way easier(okay terminology depends a lot of the player's activity) and 2) cheaper.
    Croning would be instant killed as that cost direct silver with only a low result(no downgrade and a few caphras).
    Would it end all enhancing? Nope. That would be question of opportunities. When I have 3k stones etc. in my storage I would still try to blow up them to get additional items along the caphras way. When there isn't a market for selling them(as with current cost alone the pen with just ~20 attempts would blew ~3M+ in direct material costs each try + all the other costs). Because why blowing through 500M materials, when I could sell them and buy 2 tets+ from it without rng? And with caphras Pen would be at ~900M be fixed(3k caphras*300k) or the caphras wouldn't be sold(by sane persons) when it value of selling caphras directly << using caphras to improve items.
     
  7. dobe

    dobe Lahn 60

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    I thought it was obvious enough:
    1. if you severly buff 1 way(though getting 5 time more caphras drop than currently is nowhere near "severe buff" but all the stuff in your example was) you also need to severly buff the other means to get those enchants LV...
    2. If its cheaper only on material for enchant with 00 RNG devs can add an another build-in mechanic to make the whole process more expensive ie item loose max dura on each ammount of caphras fed.And it will prolly be a win-win situation for them as artisan memory will have a true real life world value instead of a shaddy value and will entice more people to spend heavily or sporadically on artisan memory.
    My bad,my bad to not be obvious enough...On a side note i didnt wrote anywhere the new caphras value should be the same as blackstone.

    If you take my example of fedding blackstone instead of caphras for 500k each(armor) you will need for 2b500m worth of BS for tet>pen,4B for c0pen>c10pen,32b for c11pen>c20pen.Yes it is way cheaper than currently is but devs can add above point 2 to make it more expensive even if i argue those price is on the range of what it should be in the first place in the light of the AP bracket effectiveness VS Boss gear DP(thx to AP bracket stat,pen armor boss stat value is in freefall state,why should you spend 50B for an item stat worth 10B as an armor c10 pen???)
    So death of RNG enchant?I'd say its about time for ****sake as cancer as it is...

    In case you didnt notice my view also include a ratio of silver metric of AP stat against DP stat as PvP silver metrics instead of an enchant LV as a mean to an end.

    Edit;The answer is everywhere,i didnt dodge it is only a side thought to refresh your memory or to understand something you didnt notice.Thats all.
     
    #27 dobe, Aug 4, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2019
  8. Lord_Xenon

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    The answer isn't everywhere as I stated why those 'answers' are BS. So not giving answers to my post is dodging it.

    Do you have the metrics to argue what is severe and what not? I would say no. Me neither. For that we would need all the data how many ~ average drop as loot per grinding mobs/gathering etc. to see it. Master/Guru gatherer etc. could give rough numbers to see.

    The second is pure BS. Why should they increase again the difficulty(especially with such a bottleneck resource) when they (should) make it easier? That's nonsense². So instead of gathering for caphras I would then be stopped by mems or whatever?!

    When the non RNG guaranteed method is cheaper(and not so difficult) compared to the RNG, then the RNG will not really be of use.
    RNG is for all those crybaby fathers etc. to not needing to invest so muuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuch time in a game and for the others it's to prolong the game live. While I agree that non-RNG way is better, but you simply can't make it easy to reach endstuff else you run out of content extrem fast - except you want to reroll gear etc. every x timespan.

    PvP discussion is another topic. Make a suggestion for it in another thread.
     
  9. Chaos Ronin

    Chaos Ronin RyunokoDynasty Mystic 61 NA

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    Too many people want the easy gains, it's the typical "gimme gimme gimmie" attitude of the majority of the BDO community (forum at least). Caphras are the actual end goal of most people when you ask them about gear progression. Why on earth should it be easier? If anything it should be harder than it is now. You can grind as normal and buy all the caphras you need from the MP and be OP as hell overnight if you have a few billion laying around. IMO caphras should have the same drop they have now and be bound to your family and not even able to sell on the MP.
     
    Schwertfee and TheYoda like this.
  10. dobe

    dobe Lahn 60

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    You are completely detached from my previous answer therefor completely detached from part of your previous answer that forced me to explain a bit after that.

    You dont need precise metrics to compare a severness between different situations for the same goal when those difference are so extreme,only a quick empirical afterthought is required to compare about something like this...When you need 1000 unit of caphras ,between a situation where you can only have ~5/h per player on grinding and a cost of 2.5M with an another situation where you can have like 25 and costing 300k a kid of 8 year will do the quick thinking to answer about the severness of such buff and how quick you can expect to get your 1000 caphras .And dont say you will not find any unit from MP people are selling their Blackstones as cheap as it is so you can bet they'll sell caphras on the same manner...

    You were crying on the fact it will be cheaper on enchant items so here comes my 2°)which was also triggered by the total bull **** exemple of your (exemple you called bull **** yourself to try to make a point which i answer with 1°) and 2°)).Originally i complained on the availability of caphras from an hourly rate not such thing about "difficulty";you can argue the current rate is a part of the difficulty and i'll continu to argue those rates are a not "difficulty" its a straight up scam of time even for hardcore player and those hardcore player need to have those special slaves that farm caphras to feed them(and a lot of slaves is required),i've already made several points on that until now...

    This is not a "pure" PvP discussion,IT IS A STAT PER SILVER DISCUSSION WHICH WAS FURTHER ILLUSTRATED WITH PVP TO EMPHASIZE MY POINT,

    The answer is indeed everywhere not my fault if you selectively choose what is an answer or wat is not based on your opinion.If you think i did not answer your previous points feel free to point me out by quoting your points and i will quotes the answer, or i'll plainly make a new answer in the case i did not see your point.

    This is not an easy gain thread,if you didnt stand for rioting before with these horrible rates(though those rates was better in the past only for 1 spot than it is right now) then it is a you issue if you were ok with this.
    I'll wrote here again...
    For the The following statments Lv of enchant Ap offensive circle regroup non caphrased item and stand for mainhand or awk with each acc slot filled with AP acc and secondary off hand ap.
    full pen offensive=c20pen armor
    full tet offensive=c10pen armor.
    Those are the relative power creep between ap and dp.

    tungrad earring pen x2:32Bx2=64B
    crescent ring pen x2=31.5Bx2=63B
    ogre ring pen=58.5B
    basilisk belt pen=29.3B
    zarka pen =19B
    nouver pen=17B
    Max price EU total cost=250.8B
    caphras=2 580 000*(unit)
    dim tree pen+c20=23.7B+(24460)63.1068B=86.8068B
    bhegs pen+c20=20.9B+(21744)56.09952B=76.99952B
    urugon's pen+c20=20B+(21744)56.09952B=76.09952B
    griffons pen+c20=19.4B(21744)56.09952B=75.49952B
    eu max price total cost=315.40536B
    tungrad earring tetx2:9.750Bx2=19.5B
    crescent ring tetx2=6.35Bx2=12.7B
    ogre ring tet=11.6B
    basilisk tet=6.4B
    zarka tet=1.7B
    nouver tet=1.99B
    eu max price total cost=53.89B
    c10pen x4 slot=2 580 000*(unit)
    dim tree pen+c10=23.7B+(8260)21.3108B=45.0108B
    bhegs pen+c10=20.9B+(7224)18.63792B=39.53792B
    urugon pen+c10=20B+(7224)18.63792B=38.63792B
    griffon pen +c10=19.4B+(7224)18.63792B=38.03792B
    eu max price total cost=161.22456

    Here some datas,AP is hella cheaper for their DP counterpart,sorry if i burst your bubble but pen and c10pen should not even slighty be considered endgame material on the current situation.Remove free AP bracket and replace them with caphras and we can talk again.With AP bracket people were much much stronger for free overnight while you have to spend hella more to catch-up in DP.

    And here we go again..With the current droprate and market supply per hour, YOU CANT BECOME OP OVERNIGHT ON SPENDING LIKE A MADMAN.
    On EU anytime and anyday the supply market is constantly averaging between 3k and 4k...Right now its 1817.
     
    #30 dobe, Aug 5, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2019
  11. Lord_Xenon

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    >>You dont need precise metrics to compare a severness between different situations for the same goal when those difference are so extreme,only a quick empirical afterthought is required to compare about something like this...When you need 1000 unit of caphras ,between a situation where you can only have ~5/h per player on grinding and a cost of 2.5M with an another situation where you can have like 25 and costing 300k a kid of 8 year will do the quick thinking to answer about the severness of such buff and how quick you can expect to get your 1000 caphras .And dont say you will not find any unit from MP people are selling their Blackstones as cheap as it is so you can bet they'll sell caphras on the same manner...<<

    You need metrics. Because cries for buffs need data to backup why you claim it. For you to understand it:
    In a spot, a hardcore player with 100% efficiency and all buffs can make 40 caphras/h
    Bob a say he makes 5/h and bob b agree that even with his better gear etc. he only makes 8. Now both cry for buffs to make that now 4x. Now a hardcore player post that he makes ~33/h. The both crybabies would want to totally debalance a spot just because they didn't make what the spot could yield at max. That's why you give facts and not feelings/opinions regarding buffs.
    But that's not all. Spots are balanced in different ways. Some are good for x, other for y and some for z. And some are just... filler(to not use bad words from silversheeps). So why should spots now yield so much more caphras? Just because the 'grind' is so hard ->> crybaby to make things easier. For that you STILL lack answers. Instead you dodge around with words.

    But that's not all.

    >>You were crying on the fact it will be cheaper on enchant items so here comes my 2°)which was also triggered by the total bull **** exemple of your (exemple you called bull **** yourself to try to make a point which i answer with 1°) and 2°)).Originally i complained on the availability of caphras from an hourly rate not such thing about "difficulty";you can argue the current rate is a part of the difficulty and i'll continu to argue those rates are a not "difficulty" its a straight up scam of time even for hardcore player and those hardcore player need to have those special slaves that farm caphras to feed them(and a lot of slaves is required),i've already made several points on that until now...<<

    You ignore economy. I presented you an example, which obviously you even seem to understand, how changes can make things ridiculous. Instead saying RNG should be removed(you have stated your opinion?), but dodge again why it should be made so easy - and yes it's easy according to your plan. It's nonsense to reduce their price, as the value you gain of them is way higher, then it's nonsense to reduce them - as not only make it easier, but it makes the price even go higher for caphras and third, why removing RNG? Out of the frustration - I understand that total not knowing if it upgrade - you don't bring anything of value to the game in the long run. You literally destroy long term goals this way. For what? Your short moment? And what then??? Everyone is full pen in 2 years????

    >>This is not a "pure" PvP discussion,IT IS A STAT PER SILVER DISCUSSION WHICH WAS FURTHER ILLUSTRATED WITH PVP TO EMPHASIZE MY POINT,<<

    Sorry when I made the mistake to see only the PVP part in it. So I will reduce it down: MAKE YOUR OWN SUGGESTIONG REGARDING GEAR/STATSBALANCE! This is a about caphras gain and not about gear/stats!

    Also please answer those things:

    1) Why do you want to debalance spot(s) due higher caphras drops? How do they should nerf the rest of the spot to be the same as it is currently?
    2) Why reducing their price, when they have way higher value as currently?
    3) Why reducing the amount needed, when the value reflect why so many are used?
    4) Why removing rng way with making the safe way so much easier and cheaper?
    5) Why do you want to destroy the long term goal of the game?
    6) Why should lifeskillers(gatherer) not gain so much more caphras than a grinder?
     
  12. dobe

    dobe Lahn 60

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    You specifically challenge my answer on your specific example and COMPARING it with in game reality when both situation are so extreme it is not needed to get "metrics" to assess different situations.Other than this specific example yes metrics is needed when and only when the differences between different situation is not as obvious on your previous exemple.
    AS you want more "metrics" i'll answer for manshaum,per stack of 3000k token (which is the average grind/hour for BDO pop) you get ~3caphras+~10dust+~5 scroll part~+5 AS+some BS,without lootscroll/kama and on normal sever,adding kama and loot scroll on regular server you get 3100 token ~5 caphras+~15 dust+~10 scroll part+~10AS+some BS as a grossly calculated empirical data around ~25 h without bonus loot and 30H+ with scroll & kama nowadays and if we compare with februrary/ march on kama+scroll over 40H i''ve got per hour ~2500 token+~15 caphras+~30dust+~10 scroll part+~10AS+some BS.I was less geared and i got way more caphras than now....How can you explain those differences in datas????







    Its funny the quote of your from my points answer half of of your specified points you've made if you did consciously read the original post,yet I "dodge much" AMAZING!!!
    Anyway the cost on something is dictated by all the required item needed and their sum of silver to get things done...repair included,yet when i made an alternate "fix" to the lesser cost of caphras you cried and reject it in block with "difficulties" reason yet you want the current situation to remain as shitty as it is where you need 6 year h24 of caphras grinding to get your full c20pen,afterwards the reason you invoked of why caphras should not be cheaper as currently is because its the sole item needed for its own mechanic and you are against any other addition of other item to rebalance its enchant costs...NO IT IS NOT A VALID REASON.
    And stop with your "you dont know how it works" rethoric i already proven multiple time i know what i wrote about...


    We are speaking about caphras and their relative cost and by extension the silver per stat they bring on gearing, and you already made yourself several times the assumption of silver cost per stat.

    And its only you 3 first reply..
    My points is valid and have all the rights of the world to stay here and stay relevant for any further disscussion around caphras.
    You take enchant lv as an argument of authority which in fact hold no water for armor DP stat gain on correlation with AP (thx to ap bracket i already wrote that multiple time)

    1°)I already explained before mutliple time and each time for different reason which is the current silver per stat cost between AP and DP,nerfing caphras price and also the current drop rates are nowhere balanced.On a side note instead of nerfing as compensation 1 spot they can buff other spot to provide more silver per hour,it will remain in check in the "spot balance" or plainly make them endgame spot.

    2°)You did not read the total gear cost...
    3°)With this question you play the catch the tail of question 2 game.
    4°)I'm not the only one to say the current % is rigged to spend way more on average that we should in the first place.
    5°)I'm destroying nothing...again you think its okay to spend 6 year farming for something while its a catch-up feature(for DP catching AP effectiveness).And i already made some suggestion to let it remain long term goal on something about 2 years but you dismissed it out of spite.
    6°)Its already the case, they just deplete their energy in 1h hour and gaining 5/15 caphras per 450 energy each day,while average grinder get the max caphras of gatherer in 3 hour without scroll.Sooo point void...
     
    #32 dobe, Aug 6, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2019
  13. dobe

    dobe Lahn 60

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    To add to:
    If they make caphras stone item as common than blackstone ,the price between 1M and 1.5 M is a good middleground.
     
  14. WhySoSeeryus

    WhySoSeeryus Wizard 63 EU

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    indeed, caphras should work only up to pen, not above it. for MANY reasons.
     
  15. Nycroyse

    Nycroyse Nycroyse Ninja 62 EU

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    With 239 ap ninja i get 10+ caphras per hour in drieghan :) so manshaums is not the best :p
     
    #35 Nycroyse, Aug 6, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2019
  16. Lord_Xenon

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    To the first part:
    Looks like a nerf.
    >>(which is the average grind/hour for BDO pop)<< Just to get it right: Average don't mean max right? So there is more to gain with better efficiency.

    >>Its funny the quote of your from my points answer half of of your specified points you've made if you did consciously read the original post,yet I "dodge much" AMAZING!!!
    Anyway the cost on something is dictated by all the required item needed and their sum of silver to get things done...repair included,yet when i made an alternate "fix" to the lesser cost of caphras you cried and reject it in block with "difficulties" reason yet you want the current situation to remain as shitty as it is where you need 6 year h24 of caphras grinding to get your full c20pen,afterwards the reason you invoked of why caphras should not be cheaper as currently is because its the sole item needed for its own mechanic and you are against any other addition of other item to rebalance its enchant costs...NO IT IS NOT A VALID REASON.
    And stop with your "you dont know how it works" rethoric i already proven multiple time i know what i wrote about...<<

    First caphras were NEVER intended to bypass/remove enhancing. They were done to have a safe way, when you really wanted it without enhancing yourself.
    I cried because you produce BS. Instead of caphras, the mems or whatever would be the bottleneck and then? Instead of grinding x caphras/h you look at y mems(whatever) you can grind to make the step forward. That's a circle. Instead of x h of caphras to pen, it would be x h of item y. Nonsense right?
    And when you just want to make it plain easy: Crybaby for easier stuff.
    And yes you don't check how it works. Throwing your numbers for stats show this exactly. You are focused so much on that aspect ignoring the part how those even are created. Events, lootchance and some more things can affect such things and the most expensive statgain can be turned into the cheapest. But argue more with this nonsense, when you think that's the only way things are measured.

    >>We are speaking about caphras and their relative cost and by extension the silver per stat they bring on gearing, and you already made yourself several times the assumption of silver cost per stat.<<

    That show how you confuse things. You argue with stats that can be or not be tied to the relative gain. But that's nothing straight. The item that gives the most AP/silver can be the worst and vice versa, while the itemgain value can change too, but is not tied to that. LIke:
    When an item is worth 5k and it takes 10 caphras, then the caphras are worth 500.
    Then you have an item worth 4k but it only takes 5 caphras, then the caphras worth increase to 800 as you can gain more out of one than doing it with the other way.
    So halving needed caphras = doubling their price(less caphras for same gain)
    Doubling droprate etc: Mean double the worth you can gain in the same amount of time. And simply buffing spots is BS. That's just inflation for nothing. That's why the rework older/other spots to give different options instead of just buffing as that creates just one spot problems.

    >>1°)I already explained before mutliple time and each time for different reason which is the current silver per stat cost between AP and DP,nerfing caphras price and also the current drop rates are nowhere balanced.On a side note instead of nerfing as compensation 1 spot they can buff other spot to provide more silver per hour,it will remain in check in the "spot balance" or plainly make them endgame spot.

    Depends how you define balance. And nope your buff to 1 spot can'T be done without nerfing it somehow, else you inflate the gain w/o needing more gear, which makes higher gear places worse in relation. The caphras prices are correct, maybe even to cheap for what they can create(pen gear).

    Your 2) is just BS showing you don't understand economics. gain vs. amount = cost you can't put a 20k item for 5 caphras and put a pricetag of 1k for 1 caphras, when alone 1 caphras create value of 4k. That's just nonsense. The argument about statbalance is nonsense at this point. Create an own thread about statbalance.
    3) Again ignoring economics.
    4) Sounds more like a crybaby answer sorry. What is 'the correct price'? What is the correct amount of 'work'???? When you can't give ~ numbers it's just crying to make things easier. And it's way easier to pen nowadays then ever before.
    5) It's not a catchup function. And nope you don't create a suggestion. You write just a replacement of nonsense.
    Just to get it straight: How long should this MMO run? But the most important question: Should they replace the current gear with other gear(as it happen with Blackstar weapon)??? As that is the result that will happen when Pen get so much easier and people run out of things to do. Which can easy be a result of your wanted change.
    6) I read about an amount way more than than(~15-20 caphras/h total). And 450 energy is no problem. That's quite nothing actual and can be easy boosted(no money pay way). So you agree that a lifeskiller makes more caphras and you want to destroy that?
     
  17. dobe

    dobe Lahn 60

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    Big fail on your 1st rethoric.You dont know how to differentiate a grinding speed value with a value from every X token....

    Your complete lack of understanding skills.Here we take from the begining.
    That mean for every 100 caphras eaten the gear lost 1 max dura,not completely replace caphras with memes....The remnants of the paragraph is another failed rethorics from your parts,the first rethoric is a free defame attempt without substance,the second rethoric is an another failure because when RNG is in the game you dont compare its actual cost with a 1TAP and you are still here with enchant LV as an argument of authority when it only hold waters in some case CURRENTLY(if you had said me that 2 years ago i agreed with you but the current situation is what it is,this argument is not always the supreme argument),the % is just an another bottleneck as a prevention mechanic that need update(for armor not for weapons and acc..."prevention" is different than "proof" i write this here in case you wont understand once again).

    Market antics....If you take this a as a pure market game (so outside of gamescope because MP its a not a true marketplace)Then your exemple is not always correct,fact is with free prices from supply& demand the final item can be way cheaper or expensive than the sum of its total base component cost and its labor cost.
    The value of an item is not only comparable from a silver standpoint from itself but also with its counterpart silver standpoint(APvsDR,ACCUvsEVA,RESISTvsANTIRESIST) and their real value on use on specific scenario(for gathering DP is worth nothing while very little AP is worth billions of silver,for cooking AP and DP is worth nothing,for grinding AP worth is on how much money you can grind in a set timeframe while DP worth is a combination of the healthpots used and time downtime between pack for health recovering(if you lack DP),for PvP it is where you can find the the real value for the most stats than anything else.
    You heavily mixup different writings on different standpoint from differents pots....GOOD JOB!
    Only if the devs decide to mess-up with it,if the current min-max stay the same the price will only be dictated with supply&demand and will remain on current price if the supply rate is on part with the selling rate.
    The remnants of your paragraph is you spewing bull**** in an attempt to bury my initial suggestion which is more caphras drop and less cost per caphras unit anywhere on the world(by extent also include lifeskilling) .

    You forgot to add my add-ons on the balance of your process thought for 1°)....
    Hmmmmm OKAY....I guess?!Or not.About the "correct" pricing i'm not holding the answer for the universe nor about the 42,but seems like you are even less capable than me to answer that.For any "other"pricing i already wrote accurate(ish)numbers on my opinion...And i was already called out for wanting "easy gains".Soooo its not like i did stuff on your "description"about my writings.....
    On the first you did not understood my word play and prompty replied with a generalized definition of the word,on the second you are basing your understanding on your failed opinion of what is or what is not,on the third you did not understood what i wrote in the first place to begin with.....
    The remants of your answer is you playing dumb that cant acknowledge the fact devs already replaced their highest enchant LV for armor and weapons(except for red) as of HEX grade instead of PEN grade(Thank you caphras!)therefore they already set their path for years and instead of a couple of years they made sure the whole process from tet to hex last for 6 year grinding 12h a day with lootscroll active in the event you have to do the whole all by yourself which is total BS disrespect for its base customer...
    Fact is currently a grinder make more caphras per day than a 100%lifeskiller this was my point so proove me you can make more caphras than a dedicated caphras grinder,post the profession's LV,how,where,what ressource targeted and their full caphras and dust numbers average instead of vague "i heard this or that".So anyone can reproduce it and see for themselves if it is true or full of BS.

    This is an advice for you if you cant comprehend other's say stop saying they know nothing AT ALL.Also when you answer to a wall of post read the post in its entirety before commiting any writings of answer and last reread again older posts(or the whole thread) in order to not make yourself looks like a clown.

    edit:corrected some broken english.
     
    #37 dobe, Aug 8, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2019
  18. Seregruthen

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    You can craft Caphra with Black Stones, what are you on about?

    No. They're craftable and the price is fine for the amount of Black Stones it takes to make them.
     
  19. dobe

    dobe Lahn 60

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    Can you please read the WHOLE thread WITHOUT POSTING BEFORE?Thanks.
     
  20. Seregruthen

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    No. I'm not going to read the WHOLE thread. That's a ridiculous request.

    Simply put; you're talking about Caphras not dropping like Black Stones do when Black Stones can be used to CRAFT the item you're asking to drop at a higher frequency, thus destroying a market for people who GRIND Black Stones to SELL Caphras.
     

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