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Challenge - It's probably more important that you think

Discussion in 'General Gameplay' started by 2Cents, Sep 9, 2019.

  1. Columba

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    that's YOUR definition of death penalty, but not the ONLY definition of death penalties. Nevertheless, I don't remember harsher death penalties, including those in EQ fondly.
     
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  2. Tvvin

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    Best way to show he's not obsessed with BDO is to not show up tbh. Say your peace and exit. EZZZZZZZ
    :D
     
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  3. 2Cents

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    No, I specifically pointed out the game design that made Everquest such a great game. I never mentioned corpse runs or suggested it. You didn't read and or comprehend the text nor did you care. You just wanted to mash in corpse runs so you could argue against it.

    Those core mechanics will never die. They will always be a diagram for success. The aggro system, how CC's are applied, roaming mobs, spacing kills, breaking rooms. The core design will remain a masterpiece forever. The only thing that's out dated is the graphics, animations, UI etc.

    Companies trying to spin out quick money makers will never achieve that success. #bless online #fallonthefloor76
     
  4. Columba

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    No. You held up EQ as a good model of "challenge" in your screed about the need for higher penalties. EQ penalties included corpse runs. Just admit a mistake and move on.
     
  5. noctred

    noctred NA

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    As somebody who started playing mmorpg's with Ultima Online back in '99, I think comparing BDO to EQ is beyond stupid.

    That said, I generally agree with the idea that the death penalties in BDO keep players from doing anything that isn't safe. It's pretty boring and tbh kinda counter-intuitive in the sense that you do NOT want to do the riskiest content with your most geared characters - instead you just throw trash toons at that content. If it's content you can't throw trash toons at, it just goes mostly untouched if it's deemed unsafe.

    Not sure what I'd want as an alternative death penalty but the current system really is kinda meh.
     
    #85 noctred, Sep 12, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2019
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  6. 2Cents

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    Son, I literally stated the exact aspects. You could really step up your game a bit. I know it's take a little more effort than just spamming "learn to share", but really your setting a very low bar.

    I mentioned Everquest for their astonishing game AI/mechanics. It's sad to see you trying to hang on to the corpse aspect that wasn't even brought up.

    I know YOU want that to be the argument, but you're the only one saying it. You know people can read the posts right?
     
  7. Ciccina

    Ciccina Sorceress 61 NA

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    People mentioning WoW Classic in here, that community is already crying for QoL fixes, graphics upgrade and other things to make the game easy. That defeats the purpose of releasing the 'classic' version. WoW Classic literally has probably a 2-4 month life span before it completely dies out as everyone will go back to the retail version.
     
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  8. LiquidEmotion

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    Just play WoW Classic or any other MMO for that matter. BDO will always be BDO as long as PA is in control.
     
  9. 2Cents

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    That literally means nothing. Oh today's society is complaining about *yawn* hard to stay awake listening. Aside from that, I don't believe you anyway. I think you want to portray a large push for that, I don't believe there really is a mass behind it.
     
  10. Columba

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    Yet here you are....
     
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  11. 2Cents

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    That's right, here I am promoting improvements to the game and it's community. Meanwhile people whine about it and try to refute things they agree with just to disagree and troll the forums ;)
     
  12. Smileybones

    Smileybones Ranger 61 NA

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    Most of your posts are just uncalled for insults towards devs and community members, blantant lies, whining without giving any proper form of solution on top of the fact that YOU have been officially and publicly called out on being a notorious troll by a staff member.

    But let's not the reality get in the way of your narrative, MrDodge.
     
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  13. Boink

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    Here is a story of WoW "success".

    They were releasing their subscription numbers up to Wrath of The Lich King when they see a steady declined close to 500k subs per quarter. They were releasing content as well, challenging content up to it's release in China. They stopped releasing their subscription numbers in 2015.

    What happened? If Challenging content was the reason for that major pull why were they losing numbers.

    Over the course of 20 years there are many WoW Killers made by GIANT game companies: Bioware, Trion, Funcom. They designed some of the most difficult MMORPG with the sole purpose of competing against Blizzard. Most of these games now are P2W / F2P. Some companies cut ties with their game like Bioware. Funcom almost filed for bankruptcy. Trion recently bought by Gamigo.

    What does that tell us? Classic WoW is just a result of capitalism where the strong has an influence over the masses. People are so hyped about "Classic" but forgot how cancerous it is. Most just buy into it to reminisce not because of the "challenges"

    All of it is designed for a different set of monetization. Companies do that when their games are in peril. Age Of Conan "Unchained", Archeage Unchained, Classic WoW, SWTOR buy to play you name it. It is to restart the franchise in hopes to keep money flowing.

    As for challenging atmosphere in a SANDBOX MMO. Doubt that will ever happen. Besides BDO is safe in it's domain and it makes $, why would they want to be another "WoW Killer" where they can be a top dog Korean p2w grinder.
     
  14. yukishiro1

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    I didn't read the thread but it's obvious PA has not the slightest interest in the sort of game the original poster is describing. This game's grinding is fundamentally based around one-shot kills of helpless mobs that can't possibly threaten you in any way. It's not going to change; it would alienate the people who play the game now who enjoy mindless grinding, and it's not like it's going to attract a lot of new players. So it would be a brainless business decision.

    As for the idea that this game would ever become anything like EQ....lol. Just lol.
     
  15. 2Cents

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    Tons of unfounded claims in your text. Many WoW killers? You mean ZERO WoW killers. Lets be clear about this there have been plenty of games, but NO WoW killers period. Everyone wanted that title, NO ONE achieved it.

    Your premise suggests everyone wants easy mode, which is clearly not the case. There is a massive demand for a well designed challenging game.

    Nice bait on the WoW numbers failing. As if that is any proof to your statements and obviously it wouldn't be MANY factors.
     
  16. yukishiro1

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    I don't think that thesis is right. Wow didn't succeed because it was hard, it succeeded because it was easy compared to what came before. EQ, AO, UO etc were serious games that were much harsher and more challenging than wow was. Wow made MMOs mainstream by making them much more accessible and less challenging.

    The problem is you can't keep replicating that because making things easier only continues to attract people to a certain point...then it becomes too easy and it doesn't work any more.

    Wow classic is packed now because of the nostalgia but give it a few months and I'll be shocked if most of the people haven't left.
     
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  17. Smileybones

    Smileybones Ranger 61 NA

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    That's correct. I remember many relative whos played early MMOs and just bashed WoW soon after its release for being "trash game for casuals".

    Additionally, I remember printing maps for EverQuest, but those didn't exist according to MrDodge.

    On top of that it's pretty funny and irnonical to be lectured about challenges by someone who brags about griefing undergeared players in grind spots he doesn't belong to.
     
    #97 Smileybones, Sep 12, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2019
  18. yukishiro1

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    In particular, the fundamental difference between EQ and WOW was that in EQ made it very difficult to do anything solo beyond the first 20ish levels unless you were one of a very small number of classes, and even then, what you could do was very limited. It was basically a 100% group game to advance in any meaningful way.

    Wow made it easy to level to cap solo with any class, which hugely increased the accessibility of the game. The other key difference was EQ had XP and potentially even item loss on death, and dying in EQ in a bad place could be hugely costly and stressful. Wow by contrast essentially removed the death penalty entirely as a meaningful matter. This made joining pickup groups to do dungeons a basically risk-free experience - the worst that happened was you didn't use your time efficiently.

    There were a host of other QOL changes - in-game built in maps, instanced dungeons, storyline quests, etc - but it was those two changes that made MMOs accessible to the masses, both by lowering the risk and by allowing progress to be made in less than multi-hour chunks.
     
    #98 yukishiro1, Sep 12, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2019
  19. Boink

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    Exactly why i put it in quotation. Many game companies tried for "well-designed challenging game" and tried to be a "WoW Killer". You think no other companies TRIED to be a WoW Killer over the course of 20 years and get that money. Yeah you are living in a delusion.

    Were you born yesterday? There is google, you can google subscription numbers when Blizzard release and you can follow the trend there. Try doing that and you will find proof.

    Well-designed challenging game in an MMO should be existent in other genre specified games. BDO is a sandbox game, if it's too challenging people will just go on a different activity and get almost the exact results.
     
  20. Columba

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    You want to make BDO like EQ or WoW, lol. Most of don’t like those games, and we don’t consider them to be improvements. Carry on though, spending time in the forums of a game you despise! Time well spent! Lol
     
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