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Change Bound to PVE only or remove SA from Voltanic Pulse

Discussion in 'Witch/Wizard' started by AtomicPotato, Sep 24, 2019.

  1. Noixi

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    I have no sympathy for you.
    Wiz/Witch have no true instant cast img spell. All other classes WARP in, cc, and kill us, and if somehow we survive, the LAME casting time on our primary nikes, are easily WALKED AWAY FROM, before the land.

    But don't worry, the mass motivation to leave for even a CRAPPY, mom is growing.
     
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  2. WhySoSeeryus

    WhySoSeeryus Wizard 63 EU

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    i think u misunderstood the post, the things listed were some of the many ways to defend vs teleport nuking =)
     
  3. Lemon Crush

    Lemon Crush Juicey_Lemon Witch 61 NA

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    No you are actually just ignorant, the truth hurts and it got pointed out.
     
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  4. Ned Sheynji

    Ned Sheynji Sheynji 62 EU

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    Its amazing how literally every player of those classes keeps getting triggered over that. Damn i wish i got paid for getting called out.
     
  5. Despins

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    Once again, I disagree with the statement about the evasion debuff going elsewhere than on voltaic pulse.

    I've brought the topic before that they had 2 options most likely. Equilibrium break or detonative flow if not for voltaic pulse.I know you want the weaker option and wish it was equilibrium break. Be like, "omg! This is perfect because it's protected like aqua jail." As if a frontal block on immobility is any good protection at all.

    Meanwhile, a number of Wizard don't say a word while they enjoy some protected heals, hellfire, grabs, ranged nuke cc, protected running via the frontal exploit while pretending to have moral justification for doing the frontal exploit.

    Those Wizard also go in, never acknowledging that Witch before the buff and after it had and still have the worst combo damage in the entire game. The difference from now and then is that evasion classes are not jokingly safe against Witch.
     
  6. WhySoSeeryus

    WhySoSeeryus Wizard 63 EU

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    So u think aqua jail is good skill compared to voltaic? Why didnt they put eva debuff on cataclysm then?
     
  7. Despins

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    Aqua jail is weak compared compared to Voltaic. I've stated this before. However, for the reasons they decided to not go Cataclysm is either a push to not make Witch and Wizard complete mirrors OR they believed going with the natural combo of Wizard was not the intended purpose of the change.

    I hope we can agree that Witch before the buff needed more help in the 1v1 combo effectiveness than Wizard did. When one comboing a softcap c3 TET armor Striker with 285 ap was not even doable. While Wizard could do it from range. Wizard had a good combo already, but they did lack the versatile nature of Witch, which was adressed in part with the Chilling Wave buff.

    (As for Witch, they made Voltaic into a powerhouse to even out the difficulty of the class in unfavorable matchups while also increasing the combo damage: cast speed increase, evasion debuff to allow staff combo after a melee trade or melee combo. It did buff the surprise effect of Teleport -> Voltaic to an odd level in large and smaller scale fights. But to some, it means less chance for classes to simply run out of the Area of Effect, which was a reality before against any class. I certainly did it in mirror fights, with 2 backward dash, casual running out of the area of effect without any fear. )
     
  8. Gwazi

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    Anyone who thinks voltaic is game breaking is INSANE. The evasion debuff may be a little crazy against certain classes, but those are the very same classes that we have ZERO chance against. Sorc NIN, Kuno, etc. Everything about their kit DEMOLISHES Witch/Wiz.

    Also the thing that annoys me when people talk about wiz/witch is people always mentioning PA and heals. The problem with that is our damage scaling is balanced with those things in mind, but in reality EVERYBODY gets PA and heals, while their scaling is not balanced around it. Everybody with me gets pa and heals and STILL has their damage scaling. It benefits me the least.

    I wouldn't mind trading the faster cast speed on voltaic for more PVE damage. but if you remove the SA it should be INSTANT like everybody elses unprotected cc
     
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  9. WhySoSeeryus

    WhySoSeeryus Wizard 63 EU

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    thats a decent point. why didnt wizards get evasion debuff on cata then? :/
     
  10. Gwazi

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    Im not sure why they did that, maybe they thought the ap buff on hellfire would be a similar buff without making it the same thing. IDK But ive always felt like cataclysm should just do way more damage than voltaic with no cc or debuff. As a former Wiz id like to see wiz do more damage than witch over all since it feels a bit less tanky
     
  11. Desibabez94

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    To be fair you are a dk fighting an evasive sa class. Have you ever considered that we are your counter class? As we are for ninja?

    I’m sorry but voltaic pulse is NOT that op. I get grabbed by strikers almost always if they really wanna screw me over.

    Argument irrelevant.
     
  12. WhySoSeeryus

    WhySoSeeryus Wizard 63 EU

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    Witchzards are noones counter. XD
     
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  13. NatashaArisha

    NatashaArisha ShinobuAraragi Witch 61 NA

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    How someone even lost to witch/wizard as DK O.o
     
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  14. Despins

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    Brah...
    Because it would have been too strong on wizard who at the time did not face the same lack of combo.

    Witch can't do as much in a combo without knockdowns done on command, or grapple to initiate a controlled combo.

    Whenever the topic arrives I compare the optimal combo in the past before the changes of Witch and Wizard where Wizard would indeed finish off their mystic and striker target. Not Witch.

    I also assume this to be a matter of 1v1 as I assume aqua jail to be equally effective at spreading the love in a zerg.
     
  15. Meowingtons

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    Witch got way more defensive ability with her block (resistances) and FGs instead of wizards SAs. You can actually block some dmg instead of being exposed in long casting animation while eating massive dmg in SA (even with full pen armor I get melted by high ap players despite not being cced). On top of that witch got WAY more dmg on her awakening kit. A 273 witch hits way harder than a 289 ap wizard (I've tested it myself). Many wizards rolled to witch cause with voltaic pulses eva debuff, shes better in almost every aspect
     
  16. WhySoSeeryus

    WhySoSeeryus Wizard 63 EU

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    how is a frontal attack better than full aoe with center on yourself that has very neat range?
     
  17. Despins

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    I was referring to the possible reasonings behind the scene as to why the evasion debuff didn't go on Cataclysm.

    And before that time, the rerolls were going toward Wizard if we look at Snakes during the pre-buff era. You may wish to explain what you've tested. It is known for instance that Voltaic by itself deals significatively more damage than its counterpart. Spell to spell, Wizard at some point got shafted hard in the damage compared to Witch when they fixed those accuracy ratings bugs. I am aware of that. And I hope for your testings it wasn't the full damage of Gorr Roll vs something else.

    As for frontals, what is the matter with chilling wave with the cast speed boost nowadays? Is it not comparable to Gorr Roll to an extent in terms of damage for the seconds of casting?

    Wizard could aswell have had that evasion debuff on Cataclysm. Would it have fixed those issues that you have stated?
     
  18. Despins

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    I did say equally effective. And by that, I do mean to some extent (Voltaic is by far, far more practical, but aqua jail is not in the dumbster tier at least) One is a longer super armor skill with more hits over a duration, while the other is rather instant. Is the turn only with mouse movement?

    I imagine it is easier to clip a slippery class with the debuff in such a case. That is my point! : )
     
  19. WhySoSeeryus

    WhySoSeeryus Wizard 63 EU

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    nothing is better about aqua jail. also, its damge is highly split over the cast time, making it really low dps as well. not to mention it gives your back to enemy (mousemovement is soon to be thing of the past)



    chilling got buffed in terms of damage, but its protection is ****. it seems to have a hole in fg right in the middle of the spell. gorr roll still does backattacks when it passes through people, chilling doesnt.
     
  20. Despins

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    It seems pointless to talk about the aqua jail because twice in a row you believe I said aqua jail is better when instead I claim that it has some uniqueness in the evasion debuff application department, which on that claim to be gone without Mouse movements. Accurately so, and frankly such a spell should have the turn with camera available.

    Chilling wave is fast enough to be used in a combo. Gorr roll is hot damn slow but when it goes, it hurts. However, in a CC combo on a last knockdown down damage, it is still too slow to deal more damage than other spells available (usually from the staff). Apart from that obscure bug you claim about on the chilling wave, both offer the exact same defensive capabilities. Sure, Witch could go for eq break, but frankly, might aswell just Q or s block and teleport the moment it is up.

    In another light, consider the evasion debuff on Voltaic as an exception in hope to buff her combo against specifically high geared opponents due to her lack of down smash and natural high damage cc abilities. You ought to give me a worst combo class pre-buff, there was none, and in the full pen armor matchups, it was utterly pathetic to have no chances at one combo when about any other classes would.
     

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