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Damage Reduction is trash

Discussion in 'PvP' started by WhiteShadowXXL, Aug 16, 2019.

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Damage Reduction is not good anymore

  1. Yes, Damage Reduction is underpowered and needs a strong buff

  2. Yes, Damage Reduction isn't good and needs small buffs

  3. Damage Reduction is fine

  4. No, Damage Reduction is to good and needs too be nerfed

  5. Brandee shut up, noone cares about your DR problems

Multiple votes are allowed.
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  1. WhiteShadowXXL

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    let's face it...

    it doesn't make you tanky anymore for whatever reason
    it was nice when they adjusted the DR system at the time when they removed renown score.
    i still have that clip where they freshly removed the renown system
    https://www.twitch.tv/whiteshadowxxl/clip/GorgeousMoralPangolinMcaT?filter=clips&range=all&sort=time


    Evasion right now is fine as it is and maybe it should be better but idk...
    Evason will never get buffed because then all AP players would start complaining instead of building some accuracy into their builds but that is just a guess...

    In the recent post i've posted a thread about how "untanky" the shai is and guess what
    I played a full DR build and tanked like a rotten tomato... but then there is that one shai player that plays a DP build heavily based on evasion and noone does sh*t againt her anymore...

    Today i played my Zerker in RBF with 432 DP (271 DR (+85 hidden)) and well it feels like you don't even have DP gear on you xD

    your thoughts?
     
    Fateneko and Chaos Ronin like this.
  2. AtomicPotato

    AtomicPotato DarkKnight 62 EU

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    Its impossible to say what is good and what is bad while we don't have damage numbers.
    For example I'm run resistance build and eat every possible CC, while there is tons of people who claiming they fail every possible CC.
     
    Nycroyse likes this.
  3. Kurtferro79

    Kurtferro79 Maehwa 62 EU

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    the problem is not DR but low HP compared all other game to high lv.
     
    Joyfulblacky likes this.
  4. Auxey

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    The numbers are in the game, there is even a mod to enable them. Global Lab also has damage numbers.
     
  5. Factorial

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    The problem is if you make DR or DP just as effective as AP, you will get a system where it's essentially a stalemate in fights. If you can't delete someone within one good combo, you have situations where fights could go on for days.

    The next solution is to run an evade build. You can do that right now. Easy.

    Another solution is to give shai an innate DP bonus to offset the class's AP debuff.
     
  6. GamePois0n

    GamePois0n PootyPoot Ranger 61 NA

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    because dr is cheap for a reason
     
  7. WhiteShadowXXL

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    Honestly i see no problem into an infinite fight until someone runs out of pots
    I agree making it equaly would be OP but making DR a bit more useful could change things tho


    the only thing a player with no ap can do to you is cc and that is all and it should stay like this and is should be vice versa IMO
    imagine confronting a DP player for a spotfight... worst thing that can happen? the fight lasts forever and the duell will be canceled at some point
    (an issue would be that a DP player would just stall the fight and claims that no one wins the spotfight becasue nobody dies, this could create an issue)

    imagine confronting a DP player for random PvP... what could happen there.. nothing... just ignore him and go on

    imagine confronting a DP player on siege/gvg... same there: ignore him and you will be fine and take out the other AP people instead
     
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  8. Vanraven

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    Shai has high health. With 269 dr and 82 (?) hidden dr, they still melt pretty fast.
     
    WhiteShadowXXL likes this.
  9. Factorial

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    Out of the gate, let me say that I do totally agree with you. Most western thinkers want that type of synergy in fights. However, the eastern style of combat when it comes to MMORPGs, from my somewhat limited experiences, is a simple equation stylized as this: snare > dead within 0.01 seconds. Outside of that, or any form of a novel or otherwise unconventional fight sequence doesn't hold water within the eastern sphere. That is to say: sorry, it ain't happening where DP has a substantial effect. When fights last more than one good combo in a KRPG, I'd eat a whole horse, hooves and all. You got my word on that bet.

    From another perspective angle, you'd have the counter stance we have now: people clamoring that fights always end up with who has the most potions. Then it becomes a race to exhaust potions or DP saturation builds where wars essentially turn into trench warfare and that big push you initiate to take down the other team ceases to exist. Lots of witch/wizards end up becoming unemployed and so forth.

    Out of the two choices stated thus far, the lesser evil is just what we have now and it ain't so bad if you ask me. I don't mind the AP meta. FITE ME, let it be done so I can go back to grinding silver which is the single most important resource in the game. All that PVP is just steamed broccoli next to the steak. You know I like steak.
     
  10. Kurtferro79

    Kurtferro79 Maehwa 62 EU

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    Typically in these games the HP range is from 20k to 30k, we are on orders of size totally different, here by level they make too little difference to flow on a fight, it almost doesn't make sense to waste time doing levels beyond the average, in others you play the difference in height you hear much more.



    lv65 145kk hp

    Obviously the hp must be balanced with the damage to make a fight "fought" at every level, the HP in this game is barely enough to make a duel last 2 seconds,
    figure in a mass pvp ..
     
    #10 Kurtferro79, Aug 17, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2019
  11. Exaah

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    Ardains, Naho, DarkGG and 6 others like this.
  12. Vanraven

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    No it doesn't. FF14, which is a Japanese game doesn't have pvp were you are cced then one shot. Only in Korean games does that happen. And its not a style thing, its that the developers are always bad at designing pvp. At one point in Lineage 2, you could get paralyzed (can't move at all) for two whole minutes. All you could do was watch as your character was killed. It took a whole 4 years or so for the devs to realize that no one wanted to be paralyzed for 2mins, silenced for 2mins, snared for like 10mins or stunlocked over and over. Then they changed it so CC was more reasonable.

    BDO devs are no exception, they are just really bad when it comes to making damage and cc acceptable in pvp. Think about it, KRs competitively play USA games. Overwatch, StarCraft....none of those games have one shot shenanigans in them. Yet, you don't see them really pushing any KR made game competitively. You know why? Because they know competitively most are garbage. It doesn't take a genius to understand how to make damage and CC acceptable in a game, unless you are a KR dev. Then it becomes a never ending struggle on how to do the obvious.
     
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  13. Itago

    Itago Witch 62 EU

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    Looking at the clip, those characters also did 2-300k dps (or more). a single hit from that combo would kill ANY build you can make in BDO today.
    Increasing HP is not the only thing that was done there, damage is also increased by a significant factor
     
  14. Catastigma

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    We cannot stack DR at the same level that we can stack Evasion.

    DR item just dont exist. 95% of all item are Evasion or Hybrid.
    4 Years and Zero DR/EVA Yellow necklace.


    DR just dont exist. Cadry RIng is a no sense comparing a Centaur belt ( 60 Evasion vs 20 DR) Come on.

    Go Up Cadry ring to 60 DR.

    Its just completly impossible to stack DR, DR build are in fact hybrid build that have still 60% Evasion and 40% DR.

    HP Increase will create a insane issue. HP by hit of most classe are a fix amouth.

    If tommorow everyone have 30k HP. Wizard/witch, Classe with real heal will be god mode
     
    #14 Catastigma, Aug 17, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2019
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  15. Itago

    Itago Witch 62 EU

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    What they should do is add more HP on DR accessory, its ment to be a damage sponge so make sence to add HP and DR :)
     
    Crimson_Scarlet likes this.
  16. Factorial

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    You are correct and I wholly agree with you. Likewise, thanks for correcting my error. The thing about FF series is that I have always considered it within the western sphere. Yeah, I know, geographically it doesn't make all that sense, but it's more of a lumping of ideologies than physical geocentric measurement. I suppose, when it comes to video games and the one-shot meta, it's more of an ethnocentric delineation?

    All that nonsense aside, FF series has followed the western type philosophy of staying away from snare to dead in one second. Moreover, you don't see the FF series resorting to the scumbag tactics of pay to win that the Korean devs have so cleverly tricked us into believing it doesn't exist like Santa Claus.

    And again, you are correct, it's a Korean thing. You make a good analysis of KR and their love of westernized games at the competitive level. Sometimes it's so rediculous with their love for western type games, it wallows in the absurdist: see KR and Starcraft. Starcraft is essentially like the NFL/NBA/MLB/etc. wrapped up into one within Korea. It's absurd, dude, and the game is like 14 billion years old.

    Still, many Korean based games, which I simply adore for their ingenuity and breaking the mold while soaring to greatness is simply amazing (once you pretend not to see the pay to win) synchronously suffer from the instant death syndrome of fights. I don't know if it will ever change. Considering that KR enjoys games where you don't die in a nanosecond, it makes me wonder why the KR devs don't adapt. In retrospective hindsight, it makes sense that Koreans love western stylized competitive games because they are tired of their own shenanigans.

    Pretty much this as well.
     
  17. Kurtferro79

    Kurtferro79 Maehwa 62 EU

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    It seems obvious that if there were a change on max hp, some things would have to be reviewed, like potions, buffs, heals, etc.
     
  18. Icywave

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    evasion and DR shouldn't exist, most passive stats like them just promote bad pvp gameplay. obviously DR doesn't scale nearly as well as evasion.

    there's no thinking involved, a mystic can run full evasion and not worry about eating combos from multiple people simply because of level and score of evasion , no thought process, you can run into a straight line auto running and avoid damage AUTOMATICALLY.

    there should only exist minimal active ways to avoid damage that every class should have equal of

    active dmg avoidance takes more brain power than just pushing a stat to it's higher tier and passively avoiding dmg without thinking at all or needing to learn their combos or openings, the only thing you need to worry about is "are they equal or higher level and what # is your accuracy stat?"

    this is bdo though, prob won't change as staying above the meta gear curves requires constant attention and money and sometimes IRL money, as of right now a few classes utilize high iframes (sorc) not a coincidence it's one of the higher skill ceiling classes to master.
     
  19. Itago

    Itago Witch 62 EU

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    You mean like how more AP let you kill people that basicly play perfect for the encounter, just by increasing that AP stat ?
     
  20. Despins

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    Damage Reduction is very strong. Just look at those Full PEN c6 - c9 players. It is very tanky, and causes a huge gap between gear: and that, even at higher level.

    I wish those gaps were reduced so we may have some more balanced pvp (minus class imbalances).

    Also, if you wish to full DP, you will only favour Warriors who'd love such a DP buff while maintaining the ability to one or near one-combo (and easily keep pressure on the chase should the target survive). Buffing DP only favours classes that overkills already (Striker, Ninja, Warrior, Valk, Tamer, Lahn) and puts into the dumbsters classes that struggle to one combo (even at 290 AP) such as Witch, Sorc?(would benefit from DP in a way), dk. It will also reduce the kill potential of minor combos against classes that simply won't get CCed easily. Think of how frustrating it is to have a Sorc living a CC chain with damage, and sure, it wasn't the most optimal combo, but it was the only attack you could land on them after 2 minutes of going through iframes and the like.

    I honestly don't understand why anyone wants to have the DP buffed. I know ChaosRonin likes all those posts, but isn't he or she a DP meawha that keeps being completely annoying and taunty in those Red Battlefields? Gotta have a crowd of 7-8 peeps hitting him at the same time to deal with all that tankiness, and if not dealt with, they will just make you regret by being the most frustrating annoyance in the backline?
     
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