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Damage Reduction is trash

Discussion in 'PvP' started by WhiteShadowXXL, Aug 16, 2019.

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Damage Reduction is not good anymore

  1. Yes, Damage Reduction is underpowered and needs a strong buff

  2. Yes, Damage Reduction isn't good and needs small buffs

  3. Damage Reduction is fine

  4. No, Damage Reduction is to good and needs too be nerfed

  5. Brandee shut up, noone cares about your DR problems

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  1. Itago

    Itago Witch 62 EU

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    Armor is not important enough, but they still spend billions trying to get it PEN. Flawless logic.

    How many people with 280+AP still have not added Caphra to TET armor or seriously tried getting that armor to PEN?
    Do you know any spesific players that would fit this, 280+AP and not trying to increase armor over TET w/o Caphra?

    The sad reality is that even less effective grinding (avoiding getting hit) with high AP is more income than facetanking with lower AP. Even with 500DP you still would want to get back attack or down attack for faster killspeed, and bouth those include not getting hit :P
     
  2. LightsOut

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    DId I say they were not trying to get their DP higher? I said that everyone gets their AP higher FIRST and DP is always the 2nd thing to put money into. If you're at 281 nouver, you need to have all your armors to pen + a couple of levels of caphra in them and be at least 331 dp.

    So instead of going 281 nouver first, you could go 269 Nouver and focus on getting armor better before continuing to 281. But no people don't do that. They go straight 281 and then they start focusing on armor. So they run forever as glass cannons one shotting everyone else who did the same.
     
    AtomicPotato likes this.
  3. Itago

    Itago Witch 62 EU

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    Most people i know, had full TET armor before hitting 261 Nouver. Trying to get PEN armor is what make higher geared people have less DP, not ignoring DP.

    Stupid enchanting is not a AP vs DP problem, its a stupid problem and also why alot of people had several PEN armor pieces before they got PEN weapons...
     
  4. dobe

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    I 100% understand the pros and cons of such implementation,i agree with you it is a good idea to force npc grinder to need higher DP threeshold after a certain gear growthpoint and i certainly welcome it (as it will help to stop sacralize such stuff like C0pen armor),but without a npc IA upgrade it will still be a fake challenge (on whatever viewpoint we saw it) allowing an OS mechanic to a simpleton will make him effectively harder(only enough to not fall asleep) but will not increase its challenge value.

    Game say 70 :)
     
    LightsOut likes this.
  5. Yass

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  6. LightsOut

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    Last attempt to reason with you and then I'm done with this conversation.
    Back to my argument about PvE not being as taxing as PvP on your DP gear.

    If you want to be in the optimal shape in PvP at 261 AP, you should aim to have at least on the very minimum 316 DP.
    A range around those 2 values will give you the best chance of killing an equal geared opponent (someone with around 575 gs like yourself).
    At this gear bracket the 2 paths you should consider are a) running a defensive offhand like Kutum or b) having 1-2 PEN armor pieces or pumping caphras into your tet armors (in some cases both).

    And you're comparing 261 with TET armors? TET armors is wayyy too low for having 261 AP.

    The only reason people go the route of getting 261 AP before going for PEN armor or caphas in armor or switching to Kutum, is as I said already - AP ALLOWS THEM TO GRIND FASTER WHILE DP DOES NOTHING FOR THEM IN PvE.

    That's it.
     
  7. Itago

    Itago Witch 62 EU

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    Not sure you have tested it, but 400DP is still 1combo by 261 AP players. CC then kill.

    Why should people invest in 20-30 more DP when 100 more is same result, better to give yourself the ability to also kill the other guy.
     
  8. dobe

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    1°)Because they are way more tanky when not cced allowing them to outlive a oneskill(multiple dependings on classes).
    2°)when comboed it take longer time to die with proper combo.
    3°)Synergyze even more with classes selfbuff.

    Did you tested this on a standing target (who did not play at all)?Or Do you belong to the crowd thinking a max damage combo should deal 20% of max hp of someone?
     
    LightsOut likes this.
  9. LightsOut

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    I'm curious what is your gear score because that is utter ********. I bet your gs is bellow 550.

    Good luck one comboing anyone that's over than 340 DP with 261 AP. It is VERY RARELY possible with certain classes that can keep you CC chained for longer than others due to multiple downsmashes, but even living longer through a CC combo is beneficial as in any a group fight, a 10 sec CC combo is just impossible to pull off when fighitng against multiple enemies.

    I'm a 330 DP Ranger and in general people with less than 261-265 AP simply cant one combo me. And that is RANGER. Get that DP on a warrior/mystic/valk/striker, hell get that on a ninja. People will have very hard time killing you.
     
  10. LightsOut

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    This.

    And anyway 261 ap one comboing 400 dp targets is a lie. Even if you did your build completely wrong and did 50% DR, 50% evasion at 400 DP you should still survive against a 261 player.

    If you focus one of the 2 (DR or Eva) you will 100% a 261 ap player combo.

    Not even mentioning the other ways of being able to sustain (whale pots, heals from allies, self heals, MAX HP etc). All of this scales WITH DP.
     
  11. Itago

    Itago Witch 62 EU

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    400DP with 50% DR would be a wet dream for anyone trying to make a DR build, including "hidden" stats its about 40/60 with a DR offhand (Kite shield or equal) and Manos belt (DR belt)

    The DR you get at 400DP is not enough to counter the raw damage 261 AP gives. At the same time, you do not have enough evasion to evade much. Unless you get DP from just/mainly armor that scale ALOT better than accessory you will not be tanking anyone with 400 DP and even then your mostly evading and severely outgearing your enemy (PEN armors with Caphra vs TET weapons)
     
  12. dobe

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    All revolves around caphras riot with me to upgrade caphras loot rate all around the world!
     
  13. LightsOut

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    That's definitely not how DR works. DR scaling isnt linear and also has thresholds. (Look at bigandshiny's tests)

    I remember when I used to run DR while we had renown.
    I did not have that much DP, but the extra 30-50 DR I was getting from renown made me incredibly tanky. It's exactly the same now if you just get the DR without getting it for free thanks to renown.

    Hell even vs mobs, getting 20-30 more DR by switching from muskans to urugons while grinding Sycraia UW, makes it so mobs will hit me for 800 instead of 1600 dmg.

    Anyway in the end you have 2 choices.
    1) Put AP gear on your char and complain on forums that DR isnt strong enough cus you die fast,
    or
    2) do like me and invest into improving your armors and see the difference for yourself.
     
  14. LightsOut

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    I think caphra being as rare as it is is actually okay. As long as they are not always max price and impossible to buy, its the same thing. Grind for silver and buy caphras from newbies who aren't in the stage of using caphra yet. They get the silver they need to upgrade their gear, and you get the caphras that you need.

    If caphra were more abundant, it would make it easier for geared players to get even more geared. Newbies will still try to sell their caphras to invest in armors first but they will be much cheaper, while geared players will still buy caphra and gain even bigger advantage over newbies.

    p.s not going to lie, it would be amazing for me to buy as many caphras as I want at 1 mil each, but that's going to break the PvP balance even more.
     
  15. dobe

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    My opinion is: its better to have people to get at c8-10pen armor in a relative faster way than breaking the 261 AP mark for a more healthy pvp scene on the higher end of midGS while skipping the GS HELL (current threeshold 550GS 600GS) on a reasonable pace.
    DP before AP to shut up all the screamings about the OS.
    For anyone interested in PvP(and later PVE),caphras is a fake wealth anyone need it sooner or later for themselves until they break max Caphras everywhere.For population need,the current drop its not good when you need 7/8 active average caphras grinder on specialized spot per hour to supply a top grinder at money making spot.And i'm not even speaking about the number of lifeskiller needed to supply 1 hardcore dude.
     
  16. Itago

    Itago Witch 62 EU

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    To the people claiming DR is fine, would you care to share your gear? Show us what gear is ok for DR...
     
  17. Prim nw

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    Those are mostly archers, ninjas and sorcs. Theyre completely safe in their iframes/distance and just want to onetap people in 0.5sec.

    And tbh, most class balance issues would instantly get solved if DP was just better in general
     
    Maginha likes this.
  18. PK

    PK

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    Depends on the class, for some classes is too stupid good, for others like Archer is non-existent.
     
  19. Itago

    Itago Witch 62 EU

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    For what class is DR stupid good? Notice this thread is about Damage Reduction and NOT about evasion (normal DP build)
     
  20. PK

    PK

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    The 2 are not mutually exclusives, DR forces Accu instead of AP monkey, lowering therefor the AP to raise the 100% hit chance.

    Not every class benefits the same level from Evasion and we know that DR + EVA = DP even though we are not sure if hidden DR scales the same as hidden Evasion 1:1

    Nonetheless here is also where DP comes into place, classes that have natively or that scale better with DP also benefit more from DR.
     
    #60 PK, Aug 21, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2019

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