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Discussion in 'General Gameplay' started by WastedJoker, Sep 3, 2017.
i think u took it to another level.....
I've read this comment to an article about a recent anti p2w riot concerning another game, regardless the different context I've found the comment relevant to the discussion and very interesting for how f2p and p2w mechanics are intertwined to each other so I'm taking the liberty of quoting it here:
that's actually sad. in terms of esports.
i like paragon maps more than overwatch ones, and it's sad they are killing their own game.
that's what i am talking about all day long. Untill game isnt producing ingame gear from cash shop with some kind of magic(like archeage), but granting convenience and boosts, that's not p2w, because you can buy that gear with you real money anyway, and they were produced ingame by ingame means, not just appeared.
So reaching your personal goals is winning. It has nothing to do with any sort of endgame, or anything in-game at all. Its just personal. It wouldnt even matter if you actually win or lose your matches, as long as you get up in the rankings (some games with weird/horrible ranking systems are known for players intentionally "dumping" their ratings to get back up easier & higher, thus "winning" their goals by actually losing matches in the long term)
the same applies to dumping money into artisans to get better gear, in lol its your ranking that limits you in competing against "stronger" opponents, in bdo its your gear and lvl. In both examples you can achieve this goal substantially faster by paying money (because you need a lot of champions and runes unlocked in lol to become competitive). And league soloqueue takes about as much "skill" as pvp in bdo does.
except its illegal in 99% of all games, you can also hack, cheat or exploit in a game to win faster, but you will be banned if you get caught, or you can buy an account or buy ingame currency from external goldsellers and also get banned if you get caught. And yes, buying a lvl 61+ with 500+ gs account is absolutely p2w, but atleast its p2w you cant blame the devs for (unless they dont do anything against it).
Not like it stops anyone willing to sell or buy.
eve woked out same solution that is now industry standard in 2007 or so. blizzard was just abit slow with token system. People indeed are more willing to buy something legally.
In my country there is proverb- Better lead something you cant fight.
Doesnt change the fact its still illegal, and you cant blame the devs for it. You can't consider a game p2w just because its possible to obtain ingame wealth or status by illegal means. Its the act of buying accounts or currency from goldsellers that is p2w, not the game.
And obviously it doesnt stop someone willing to sell, he doesn't care if his account gets banned after, and he already has his money. Its the guy who buys who should think twice and be aware he might be banned.
What a stupid argument, if you are not trolling please make us a favor and never have children, even if you buy a challenger account in LOL you still don't have an advantage, actually you are ****ing yourself over since you are trash and you are gonna get demoted after a few games. Also, buying accounts in LOL is against the TOS while in BDO it's the ****ING DEVELOPERS AND PUBLISHERS WHO SELL YOU THAT ****.
Do you know how the kids are produced? Just incase.
Like that, please follow that method too. Also next time try to answer with an argument when someone proves you wrong.
@Dremlock Read this. Well-written, well reasoned, AND sufficiently long. Technically over-qualified on the first 2 counts actually as his reasoning is better.
Lets up his like count and bribe him to white-knight.
Top candidate, unless we only want people who ACTUALLY are WK at heart.
EDIT: Just go find his original post actually, it doesn't make as much sense if you don't see what hes replying to
Then pls proof that BDO cash shops sells any ingame gear.
Bloody hell dude, seriously now, so many people have tried to explain it to you...IT DOESN'T SELL YOU IN-GAME GEAR, IT GIVES YOU MORE ADVANTAGES OR STRAIGHT UP MORE SILVER IN THE CASE OF ARTISAN'S MEMORIES OR COSTUMES=MORE SILVER TO PRE-ORDER GEAR OR MORE ENHANCEMENT TRIES.
Karai said: ↑
So .. If the situation was :
Cash shop -> Item = the game is P2W.
But, if it's :
Cash shop -> Silver -> Item = the game is not P2W ?
Just because there is a manipulated 3rd Factor, the situation completely changed from guilty to innocent ??
The Tet/Pen part is the most frustrating part, i don't understand how peoples cannot see through it .. it's an RNG system, and logically speaking : the person who get the most tries will most likely have the biggest chances to succeed, what are the limiting factors per try ?
Both elements can be farmed, and will cost a huge amount of either : Time or Silver, if we consider the time factor as universal to all players, only silver is the limiting element to this equation, can you or can you not affect that element with cash shop ?
Selling Outfits = Gaining Silver.
Rank 1 House Investment = Gaining Silver.
Life skills Activities + Cash Shop Items = Better Silver.
Grinding + Cash shop VP + Drop Scrolls + Pets = Better Silver.
Artisan Memory = Saving Silver and Triple Durability Repair.
All the elements listed above are EXCLUSIVE to the cash shop, it's a power that you CANNOT obtain in game.
In order to remain objective, Pets + VP can be purchased from the Marketplace, but they were bought by someone from the cash shop, they didn't originate from any in-game mechanic, if someone decided to reject the origin point and simply argue about their availability, then basic probability maths should be used to counter the point : What's the chance of buying this items from MP ? i personally got 1 pet and 0 VP since the day they were able to be sold on Market, which is 1 year ago.
Since Cash shop heavily influence silver gain, and more silver offer more materials, which lead to more chances to enchant, this will lead to : More chances = More likely to succeed ----- Cash Shop = More likely to succeed.
The above conclusion has 1 weakness, which is "more silver offer more materials", because of the RNG nature of the Market, but even this point can be passed with either : Time or Pre-Order.
B&S has limit on the amount of materials bought, and the max you can buy is almost negligent in comparison to the long long enhancement tree.
Gears are equalized indeed in Arena : 1vs1 and 3vs3, but not equalized in Battlegrounds : 6vs6.
My friend blown 6kkk trying get tet cresents.
Any particular place where can i use all those billions of silver i get by selling 5 cash shop itemsper week and buy dande? or maybe tet ogre?
Youre an idiot, im done.
My friend is far from getting 1kkk, Guess how many pri or duo Crescent he could get to that moment... two pri (already gone), one duo and nothing above. He just grinds his own stuff as he cannot afford buying them from marketplace. If he had billions to spend he would probably sit at many attempts of getting to TRI if not the TRI itself.
so i cant buy items using shop, only better game pace?
where is pay to win then?
well that's not how it works, that's all what "convenience items" are about. you still come up with the logic "every little advantage -> p2w". nothing against that opinion, but discussions are useless then, and the choice between the starting packages should already have kept you from buying the game.
on the contrary, it's all about how much "invest more time" can beat the item shops, and that's not a lot. p2w means, you can be better than someone else in a very short time, or even instant. if someone needs to spend 10-20% more time to make up some pearl items, that's fine and is no problem for the balance, which is heavy influenced by RNG anyway.
Let me underline it. There:
"so i cant buy items using shop, only better game pace?"