Separate names with a comma.
Discussion in 'General Gameplay' started by WastedJoker, Sep 3, 2017.
Wendy Wright would be proud of you, keep it up!
i could do that in any game, actually. even in lol i can buy IP boost, or straight away heroes. In wow i can buy insta level boost and a lot of gold for gearing my char and in eve i can buy character or skills for my own. Actually in eve i can buy anything for real money, because market is unrestricted.
that's industry standard nowadays.
go play some soccer, there is no pay2win... oh wait...
So having 4x T3-T4 pets running next to you, with Cash shop Costumes and outfits, Cash shop buffs like Kama Trees, etc - is only equal to 10-20% less time spend on progressing your character?
Have you ever actually tried playing this game with out Cash Shop items?
Last try before giving up.
You got the IP boost and got all the champions, now what? Do you think that just by having all the champions you are better at the game? Your analogies are stupid and you should feel bad. Also in WOW you can get to level 100 in a few days and just being level 100 alone doesn't provide you with anything.
No, you couldn't do that to in any game. Yes, LoL is P2W, as paying gives an advantage in champ select.
yes. i struggle at smurf sometimes, because i cant strait counter enemy, so better champ pool compensates some lack of skills.
same for runepages, but they removing it/
it's level 110 now. Gold provides me with raid-level gear from auction house, STRAIGHT, and i buy gold from blizz. pure paytowin, ye?
Skills>Counters if you can't beat someone at bronze-low plat level just because he counters you then you are trash and you shouldn't blame anyone else.
1)The character boost costs 60 euros, gets you to level 100(NOT 110) which can be done in single day, you get no gear and you have to learn your skills. Also most raid items are soulbound and can't be sold, the only thing you can buy is legendaries but you can only get 2 per character(out of 10+ armor/weapons/rings etc slots)
ah. ok. gl skillfully rekking cancer cho with garen. you know, you are not always only smurf.
wut? raid have multiple bind on equip boes and each raid tier provides new crafts, that can be upgraided to medium raid geared tier.
WOW IZ DED. PAYTOWIN. EVE TOO. END IS NIGH.
I mostly agree. The way I really look at it is "every little advantage -> p2w" but theres acceptable levels of p2w. Its just too hard to definitively debate where to draw the line. Where does it go from "Its ok to buy 4 pets for efficiency" to "LOL this guy bought a tet dande from the silver he got selling outfits" etc?
But I slightly disagree, I think it requires much more time than 10-20% extra to match a p2w players advantage. That's where the "Universal time" concept comes in, it really only applies if trying to compare the 2 players progress, assuming starting at the same time in the game, etc.
See my above post to you.
yep prime candidate right there, but can he manage to WK? It's hard to put that much effort behind something you don't genuinely believe in.
Maybe bdo isn't the classic p2w game where you can buy exclusive items that give you stats for real money but is really similar with mobile cash grab games (spend a certain quantity of money to get boosts or advantage example 10$ for a 20% gold drop forever is comparable to bdo pets sistem more pets and faster give you more income in less time I dare you farm with 4 t1 pets and tet gear at pirates or sausans your rotation will slow a lot)but people still think that is not p2w lul k
The thing that amuses me more about this whole debate, which as much often as repeatedly gets low akin to kindergarten disputes levels of rhetoric due to the contributes coming mostly from one of the 2 opposing sides, is the fact that the more some people are withe-knighting the current implementation of the pearl shop, trading in exclusive convenience not otherwise available in game and which some regards as P2W, the more these people, even if in the end they got the upper hand in this very debate, they would then also just help implying by winning the argument (or simply by the display of their efforts for the cause) that the game without such convenience sold in pearls is simply not good enough.
i have 2kkk atm.
how do i buy tet dande?
share your pay2win wizdom!
We don't hold the same view of what P2W is. Telling me that I'm lying to myself is going a bit too far. If you go to two individuals holding differing opinions you don't hear both sides and tell one person that they're lying simply because you disagree. The definition I'm following is one I've followed for years, I've seen no good arguments to change my view on that. I'm not as eloquent as you when it comes to holding a discussion which is pretty clear throughout our responses, that's my fault as I'm not used to social interaction. Perhaps that's why you find some of my responses odd or too literal.
Where the line is drawn is when you can buy gear from pearl shop.
When you can buy stats that enhance your character in a manner where if you fight a F2P player they cannot compete.
When a F2P player has no chance of competing in the game without spending money on the game. (Which I've yet to see hold true in this game, but this will depend on what ANY person in this game wants to compete in and how fast they want to be able to do that)
A better argument is telling me about how a new PvP player in this game would require a lot more time if they didnt spend money in the pearl shop and thus might just end up quitting before they reach it. Spending money would help expedite that. This is a major flaw in a game that is often tooted as a great PvP game where competition relies on getting ahead or "getting lucky with RNG". Getting ahead slows down drastically after a certain point which is important to note. For a PvP player you want to be able to get there as fast as possible and be competitive, but by my definition it falters in the early game but still holds true for the end game.
In this argument, I can better see your point of view.
It is simply a statement I made. It does not tell you what to do. Unless being welcomed to has a different meaning that I don't know of.
I said that there will never be an agreement between both sides due to my own experiences within this forum. The way you phrase it is not pleasant, but if that's how you view it. It's not a case of "Oh dear me" tho.
Very likely I am being stubborn, it does not change that my view on it is convenience. The argument I made in this post is the only way I can understand your point of view and agree to some parts of it. Major flaw with the games gear progression being RNG and how PvP gear isn't separated from gear gained from PvE.
It's not that I'm adverse to it, It's that I've yet to see a good argument to completely change my mind.
When you insinuate that I seem irritated and bring outside matters (pro-choice) into a discussion that frankly don't need to bring in either, it does mean you try to play to my emotional side. That is why I responded that way.
In response to the rest of this quote, read over the argument I made or tried to make of which I was looking from your point of view. (Or at the very least I think I tried)
Edit: I am not arguing for Pay for Convenience to be looked at positively. This has never been the case. It does however describe it much better than Pay to Win. As this game is built entirely on being inconvenient. Because this is how the F2P model has shifted. Very few MMOs these days have P2W options in cash shop because it doesn't work as well anymore. Pay for Convenience however works really well. As times change it's better to change what term is used rather than butchering the definition of it's predecessor. Which does actually create confusion and ends up with arguments like the ones we're having.
Real quick. That's 2 million. did you mean 2 billion? if you meant 2million:
Go spend real money to optimize your worker set up with artisan workers nearly instantly, something that normally takes months to do.
Buy pets and smash them together until you have 4x T4 pets, thus exponentially increasing your grinding income henceforth.
Buy horse stuff for real money until you have excellent horsies, sell.
Buy pearl-shop items and sell on MP.
Any of the other methods in which you pay money to get silver.
Repeat until you have a lot of silver.
Place pre-order and watch MP.
Oh, that takes a lot of time you say? Because it takes a long time it isn't p2w?
If that is your thought process, you have ignored the multitude of posts in this thread explaining it to you in which case
It's the Developers. They got smarter. They don't simply give out end game items anymore. Because players tend to avoid such games. Instead they create game mechanics where you are force to acquire necessary Cash shop items to progress at the same rate as everyone else. And when everyone uses this Cash Shop items - of course they would not consider them selves as P2W players - because everyone is using them.
It's the new master plan to turn players in to:
Spoiler: end result
erm. i just spent 30$ for a lunch. i won a life?
because spending 30$ on pets seems so in the game, lol
Grats you just posted the worst analogy to ever hit the forums!
Looking to sell XP transfer coupon for 20000 pearls.