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Deathline chase changes

Discussion in 'Valkyrie' started by Jey, Jul 2, 2019.

  1. Kenwulf

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    I am not talking about a combo. If I cc someone with valkyrie they are dead even without Terra. The problematic part is, that if I hit someone with a bsr Terra in SA that's 90% of their hp. Which usually makes people cry on the spot. And the only excuse I can bring up is that it's not protected. Don't get me wrong, other classes can do the same with protected skills, but still people will complain about valkyrie the most because most of them play on low ap where valkyrie still has a good defense and dmg. And they won't understand that on higher AP she is a defenseless glass cannon.
     
  2. Naho

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    So you're saying that valk should get a skill nerfed after protection or should not get it protected because some ppl got a git gud issue? Yeah no i'll pass on that one. If someone get caught in a bsr Terra and get 90% hp gone w/o cc more than once, then that person need to rethink about how to play .
     
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  3. BboydD

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    Musa have shift F (fg+Cc) striker skull crusher, zerk ancient wave (no full fg but cc and ranged) etc. A lot of classes have a protected skill with very high damage
     
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  4. Kenwulf

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    I know, but I am afraid. Or class has been called op before and look where she is now. PA has it out for valkyrie. :D
     
  5. R.Prescott

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    There are high damage protected skills in this game sure, but next to none of them are on par with Terra in damage, it would be absolutely busted with fg and I don't wanna play a broken class. To whoever said Sorc GRJ has frontal and does the same damage as Terra... its SA on windup and nothing on release, and it only does the same damage as Terra if you're comparing 50% BSR GRJ (which does get SA in the damage phase) and normal Terra, that is not a fair comparison whatsoever; imagine BSR Terra with FG... I'm good thanks, can't be bothered dealing with the (deserved) backlash that would get from other players. As it is right now, you can use BSR Terra in large scale, you just have to use your head and position well; only engage with it when people are distracted, etc. If it got FG it would be way too easy to pull off for how strong it is.
     
  6. Naho

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    It's for sure easy to use your head and position better to cast Terra, but do you think your opponent will not use his brain and just watch you doing it? You have to get EVERYONE distracted and when an archer and a wiz/witch are sitting on the top of a rock shooting at you , good luck to position yourself better ..
     
    #26 Naho, Jul 5, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2019
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  7. Crytan

    Crytan Targaryen Valkyrie 62 EU

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    I never said great reaper does the same damage I said it has fg and high damage. Yeah fg is only while charging but fg only in our animation would also help.
    When I used gream reaper it did 1/2 HP damage on most classes even if you are not using bsr. So I think the damage difference is not that huge as you say. ever used Terra without spear? That's where the damge comes from.

    Well Terra is not really an issue, more a quality of life change. But our grab and movement is an big issue.
     
  8. Bnna

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    it's SA. SA. been said like 5 times already here. gap after releasing without protection is like half a second too. also

    it already had SA and not FG when the bsr version was introduced. i have no clue what you were using it against that you didn't realize it when doing so.

    it kills you when used without bsr into a face of anything when it hits you. 10/10 - you charge it into somebodys face, you are dead. the gap is before the kd tick lands, dude just spams cc into you - you are on the ground, no cc, no damage, there is not even a good way to cancel it when the guy stays in front of you and you realize he is just going to wait for you to release. as it is right now i would pick base TS over base GRJ any time of the week. it is a much better skill overall, way faster, more damage, good transitions and quickcast with Q or second swing casti - be happy you have it.

    also we have very different opinions on what "high damage" means. as for not overgeared sorcs and without bsr - the damage of grj sucks, main reason to use it is high acc modifier and reliable kd cuz multiple kd instances. mostly relevant for ds reset. as for the damage you almost always have better options to hit a target on the ground even in mass then to charge grj.

    ever used grj without 100% crit buff? oh wait it's exactly the same bc it has 100% baseline crit. that is kind of the reason why ts is so much better.

    you guys picked a meme skill to ask for. only thing thats overtuned is the 50% version.
     
    #28 Bnna, Jul 5, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2019
  9. Kyraios

    Kyraios Sagaris Valkyrie NA

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    I wish I could force the developers to sit in a room and play Valkyrie against the current meta.

    Also it's funny how the class with the biggest shield in the game has the least amount of usable skills with fg out of almost all other classes
     
  10. Muhaha

    Muhaha Valkyrie 62 NA

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    Can't wait to see how shitty this 'buff' actually is and how many issues it doesn't solve! :D
     
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  11. Crow'sRage

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    What's wrong with dlc changes? It seems to me like it's clearly an upgrade, taking a part of war/valk's kit (red text at very bottom of Q) and applying it to other parts of the class. Just imagine it with WoL during charge, Shining Dash during dash, Divine Slam and many other skills. Super guard aka strong defense has been in game for years and can help solve some problems with forward guard or lead to even bigger upgrades.

    Hm maybe it was the wording "defensive hero"? You're in a defensive stance all day so what's the problem with it when it's true? Help me understand 'cause I'm lost.
     
    #31 Crow'sRage, Jul 9, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2019
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  12. Muhaha

    Muhaha Valkyrie 62 NA

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    I welcome the change, but I don't think it'll really solve anything.
    From my understanding, the coming up 'buff' is only on Death Line Chase. Not on anything else.

    Do you play Valk? Because you'd know FG doesn't even compare to invincibility frames. Every class can be in 'defensive stance', just hold S, even classes like sorc that doesn't have a CD on Iframes can just S block. Blocking isn't a special defense only valk/warrior has, its a common defense every class has. The only difference is only guard has a resistance buff if you don't move at all. They pretty much have Valk set up like a Sorc but with no iframes. Very few skills are protected, only like 2 protected CCs, except valk has higher CDs, probably more stamina hungry considering I can't even keep up movement wise with sorcs on my team, slower animations, and FG (not resistance FG normal FG) on movement. Not only that, we're pretty much the only class without any iframes. (Enslar is SA going up/down, the 'iframe' on it is a joke, lasts about .000001s) When assassin classes have better defenses than a "defensive hero", they can't even be called a defensive hero. Late game when everyone is 265+ap, FG is destroyed near instantly if they know what they're doing or you just get grabbed so 'turtling' is impossible, leaving us pretty much defenseless. We're pretty much in that **** spot where if we turtle we're screwed, if we move/attack, we're also screwed. (since there is so much ranged spam/classes with way more protected CCs)

    Also, shining dash and its 35-40s cd is damn near unusable like alot of other skills like JoL, SoJ, etc. Hell, even Verdict, is debatable if its even usable. SA on PA/Heal is kinda laughable, considering how many times I've been CC'd out of it/killed through it, like when you're on the ground the entire time PA up, it shouldn't even be considered a PA, would rather have mystic PA.
     
    #32 Muhaha, Jul 9, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2019
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  13. Naho

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    Go make a trial valk and play it. That's what i do to understand what ppl talk about when i'm not playing the said class as a main
     
  14. Crow'sRage

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    Yeah, fg doesn't compare to iframes unless you're heavily geared. What i'm trying to say is the DLC changes (on its own) is pretty good.

    There's also a problem of guard being a first line of defense but then when you ask what crystals people are using to amplify Guard to make it last a tiny bit longer, you don't get the right answers because of current meta leaning towards things like special attack evasion. The class is missing certain passives to allow players to be comfortable persuing a stronger, and long lasting Guard (this is something I've brought a few times in the past).

    The overabundance of iframes and ranged CCs (especially on classes that also have closerange protected ccs) has made it difficult to request that level of changes to valk. The point remains that if dlc is received positively, it can lead to better changes like what was listed in my earlier post or like pre-awk Guard becoming as good as awakened guard (as a sign of acknowledgement with guard being a first choice for a lot of players).
     
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  15. Naho

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    If you think Dlc change is pretty good, then i'm either missing something or we aren't playing the same game
     
  16. Crow'sRage

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    It's slightly better than the current version. If it was 1 second less, that would be amazing.
     
  17. Muhaha

    Muhaha Valkyrie 62 NA

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    Not even if you're heavily geared, Iframe = 0dmg no CC
    And from pretty much every Valk I've talk to, they don't want to be broken or super op, just brought up to par with the other classes. Even if it means a nerf. (even tho our only broken aspect is our ult but it takes a year to go off, so idk what they'd even nerf. maybe our support heal?) In other words, be able to move and attack. Valk has decent dmg, but it depends on acc and crit buff being up, so i can kinda understand the attack issue, movement i can't. When theres sorcs/ninjas literally dancing around 20 people, poppin quick CCs and iframe canceling, theres no reason Valk shouldn't be able to even make it to the front line without being perma CC'd to death.

    tbh, I don't have any issues with preawakening guard, feels near the same as awakening to me.
    but again, i do welcome the change, anything is better than nothing.
     
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  18. Kenwulf

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    Idk. I liked that I could use dlc backwards any time to get at least some protected movement that doesn't have a big CD. But now it's gone. Instead I get an SA which I will never use. I just don't see how is this a buff. We get protection on a skill that's already somewhat protected, but we can use it less frequently. And it's on a class that's already lacking enough protected movement so frequency is the real issue.

    Is the vision for valkyrie to become a wiz witch class that can only stand still and eventually get grabbed? At least wiz witch can constantly throw out protected skills that nearly one shot you, so if you miss that grab you are dead... Meanwhile the super defensive valkyrie is dead against an aggressive opponent almost always, cause we don't have tools to move or counterattack. Except ofc when the RNG resists kick in then I just practically one shot my opponent and boom... Game over. My friend started calling it the clink of doom. Cause every time he hears the clinking mid combo he knows I resisted a cc and he is done. But winning like that is not satisfying at all. And the rest of the combat is just frustrating with the RNG ccs. Even in PvE.

    So could we get some real changes? I am all for the idea of turning the valkyrie into a defensive front line class with more protection more ccs and healing but less dmg. But currently she is a glass cannon. The exact opposite. So I really hope that this "buff" wasn't meant to be the change that accomplishes that.
     
  19. Kyraios

    Kyraios Sagaris Valkyrie NA

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    That's basically the same as lingering sa if you were to add it to every skill. Warrior and valk were designed 100% around that mechanic. It's what made them able to maneuver around the battle field

    Valk will never be given an iframe. Ever. It's not what they have envisioned. If anything they'd probably make our block stronger

    It's sad because they really only need to do two things to valkyrie to bring her on par to other classes. 1. Give her an iframe dash that ignores collision(the only reason she needs it is to be able to fight grab classes in 1v1 and she needs a way to get out of the fight without dying) and 2. Super armor on celestial spear(this would be the only SA cc skill she has that can be used while blocking or under massive pressure)

    If she had those two changes I think valkyrie would be in the perfect spot.
     
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  20. Crytan

    Crytan Targaryen Valkyrie 62 EU

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    Mhh Buff still not implemented? Maybe they are still working on it and there will be more? Stay positive! :D
     
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