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dream patch notes - a work of ficiton

Discussion in 'Tamer' started by irrelevant, May 1, 2018.

  1. irrelevant

    irrelevant Pixelstorm Tamer 62 EU

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    So since bdo is pretty much destroyed and they don't seem to have any intention to fix it and these new changes make tamer way worse than it was before in everything outside of 1v1 and in general nerf skill and buff baboon players who don't mind dashing grabbing dying repeating i decided to make a thread just to get it out so i know i've said it

    First of all, i don't care about bunch of non-tamer plebs coming to tamer forum and saying "tamer is good luaealeaoealeale i never reached 5k rbf score on my main and i'm a complete nobody but i go around and litter the forum with bs aeaeaeae". I've played the game more than enough to be able to make my own opinion, in fact i don't trust anyone in this game more than myself to know what's happening and for a good reason.

    I have made threads in the past that ask for tamer buffs/whatever but i've mostly been humble and just asked for fixes or some minor buffs that wouldn't even really change the class's status but this new system made me realize that tamer is going to stay garbage forever unless they do something massive for this class and judging on what PA has been doing for the past 2 years it just seems unlikely.

    Tamer in 1v1 - despite what many noobs are saying tamer isn't even a good 1v1 class. Valk is better, zerk is better, mystic is better, striker is better, ninja is better and tamer doesn't have advantage against the rest classes besides witch and depending on scenario/gear setup some others. 1v1 on equal gear and skill level tamer isn't even close to being a top class but then again most people here don't fight high end players so they wouldnt even know. And just because tamer is somewhat okay vs ninja and striker in duels it doesn't mean that they don't do better against the other classes that tamer struggles against

    Before i start - you can still find success as tamer if you stack circumstances on your side (gear,allies,backstab / situation/ buffs/ whatever) but that doesn't make tamer a good class cus you can do this with any class and if you're good and geared as tamer you'll be better with anything else. On top of that in most threads i made like i said i was holding back but this time i'll post what the class needs to be viable and not be the worst class in bdo any more but even then it'll never be the best class in bdo simply because its design will always hold it back in group fights, but that's okay
    edit: also a lot of my reasoning will be based on what other classes already have in the game

    1. Revert the CC system - the new cc system is a huge issue for tamer because the class lacks usable in group fights skills. You can't use grab and you can't really use any shortsword skills either. What you mostly do as tamer is catch people with a float but now you can't extend that CC because you only have garuda and allround spinner and garuda does no damage while allround spinner needs a full channel for the cc to activate so in a sense you can't even abuse the new system as much as other classes can while they can just mash their buttons.
    The cc system is garbage because it nerfs the stand-up part of the combos and that's what you mostly relied on as tamer against more geared and tankier people and with this new system you basically lose a lot of damage. You could do stiff > stun > reposition and then float with garuda in the past but now if you get stiff > float you can't reposition and float again as easily cause your first float displaces them so you can't pick your angle as good as before which means you cant cast allround (and it usually had to be canceled cus full cast is too slow). Also the new cc systems make every random cc a lethal CC and what class gets the most random ccs cus of moonlight and lbp? yes its tamer

    2. give full SA to lbp and to moonlight
    reason: that's like the bare minimum for the class to even continue to exist


    3. give SA to grab - i absolutely hate this suggestion and in general i hate grabs and making them stronger but SA grab is one of the most overpowered things in the game and at this point its only tamer and ranger that have unprotected grabs but ranger grab is much faster and they have range and mostly use it when people dive them not when they dive so it's different. Ranger can do protected skill > grab > Protected skill but tamer has to do protected skill > grab > bolt jolt cus thats ur main damage and they are unprotected that's why at least if grab had SA you'd have the option to break people's defense and then if you wanted dmg you'd have to cast unprotected bolt jolt or if you wanted more safety you'd have to use a SA abilitiy.
    also in general id like a huge grab nerf globally, increased cd on all grabs and capped grabs and also resistance has no cap


    4. Reduce echo pierce's cooldown by 2 or 3 seconds and as a payoff you can also reduce the damage by 20-30%. Also echo pierce heals for 300 every time you use it
    reason: tamer has to swap weapons a lot and lower cooldown on echo is almost a requirement at this point, and tamer has absolutely no sustain so there's that

    5. give full SA to legendary beast claw (57 rabam), buff its cast speed by/windup at the start, make it knockdown with only 1 hit and as payoff the cd can be increased by 50%-75% - as long as the skill works thats the only thing that matters.. it doesn't work right now and its beyond useless. Even if it gets buffed it still has bad dmg and is mostly just used as wep swap and as engage against fg

    6. make tree climb have no collision (means it's just a slow roll/iframe) so that the class actually has an actual iframe on shortsword

    7. give tamer a passive skill that increases movement speed by 10% and also give LBP a selfbuff that lasts 10 seconds that increases movement speed by 10% more
    reason: right now tamer is the slowest class in the game by far, you can't even catch a witch cus they have +10% selfbuff blue orb and +10% movement speed more if they use teleport and 20% movement speed more if they use the speed spell thing and witch/wizard are supposedly the slowest classes in the game but if you had to race one of them they would just outrun you and it wouldn't even be close - i don't understand how can a melee mountain training fighter class be so ridiculously slow it has to be some sort of a prank right?
    I started playing alt kunoichi and with 40 ap and 40 monster damage less i clear faster than my tamer despite not even having all skills learned on kuno and not even having experience and mostly that's because the hitboxes are much better and because the class is 3 times faster than tamer and the movement speed is nowhere even remotely close. I seriously don't understand how and why the hell is tamer so slow? Why is it (((THE SLOWEST))) class as a melee class with 0 ranged abilities? How the hell does that make any sense whatsoever??????????????????????????????????????????????????????
    Even if you gave 20% movement speed to tamer it'd still be slower than other classes and perhaps it would still even be the slowest class (lol) but at least it wouldnt be even remotely as bad as now and you'd still have 2 buffs (absorb and berserk) that can increase your ms further.
    Tamer's movement speed is seriously a disgrace/embarrassment

    8. Increase heilang: berserk's stats by 50%, right now they're pathetic. Even if you gave this skill 50% More stats it would still give less stats than other "E buffs" or superbuffs. Make it not despawn heilang - why the hell is this still in the game..? like seriously? it makes the skill completely unusable. And lastly give it superarmor on casting so it can actually be used in real fights.. you know.. like what everyone else already has. Yes tamer has absorb on shortsword but witch has PA + sage + speed spell + mana barrier on staff and it doesn't stop them from getting the best superbuff on awakening either so get out of here with this argument.

    9. Rework heilang triggered attacks on surging tide, roar, legendary beast dance, allround spinner and remove heilang attacks from whiplash and beast rampage
    reason: whiplash and beast rampage just end up canceling your other attacks and that's bad and at the same time they already don't do anything (From heilang) so it's better not to have them at all. Heilang needs to be reworked cus its unreliable and bad and it misses its stuff way too much. It should be made like witch and wizard pets and every time you used a skill that commands heilang it should teleport in you and then cast its own skill in an increased and fixed area in front of you. That way it would always activate (because right now half of the time it doesn't). For the most part that's what they already do but it's not "fixed" cus heilang still tries to have a target so if it was made to be in an increased area (as compensation that it wont change a target) but always a fixed place like in front of you (like withc/wiz pets are) It would be much better and more reliable and less buggy.
    Also make it immune to CC

    you can remove heilang's rng CC on auto attacks couldn't care less about that, non-tamer plebs seem to think that tamers actually care about this but i don't care about it even in the slightest, it rarely ever works or does anything

    10. Increase the dmg reduction of LBD and Resonance's superarmor
    reason: you're already incredibly squishy so buffing the main skills with some more DR sounds just fair to me, it still requires you to use skills and maybe that way you can use more than 1 ability in group fights before dying through SA. They do have somewhat slow cast so its only fair to have this

    11. give 0,5 sec lingering iframe animation to staff iframes - like there are 2 types of classes, ones with lingering iframe that actually works (sorc) and ones without (tamer , kuno, ninja) giving a small lingering time after staff iframes will make them work a lot more often and you wont get cced between skills as much

    12. make some shortsword skills more usable - Trample gets superarmor, Flash gets frontal guard, pole thrust gets superarmor

    13. fix upward claw to work like before- you could use upward claw > bolt jolt and now you cant cus upward claw cancels into auto attack and that's cus of the silly "tamer animation polishment" which actually made it way worse and the main combo of shortsword included upward claw

    14. make the shortsword double jump activate in both shortsword and staff mode and both combat and weapon sheathed mode

    15. make the tamer block give you the buff instantly as opposed to waiting 2.5 times longer than other classes do when they use their q block

    16. flow: intimidation has frontal guard and increased dmg cus right now its pathetic

    17. delete flow: ascension - i could ask for buffs on this skill but the skill is so bad that i rather see it gone from the game than get it buffed because it's a huge meme at this point

    18. Flow: full moon gets 2.5 times longer cooldown but commands heilang to do a massive aoe in front of you that has same range as witch thunderstorm and does slightly higher dmg than LBD commanded pet damage. I suggested this before, i'll keep suggesting it. It's good cus it gives tamer some mass pvp aoe which it doesnt have right now and it does it in a creative way so that your pet does the dmg and you dont get in harms way but the pay off is that the dmg is still gonna be quite "low" and the cd is going to be almost 20 seconds

    19. make the staff ult damage and cc reliable and static not spread around the dogs and rng and also make the ult cancelable with iframe like ranger ult is

    20. increase the range on heilang: attack, give it superarmor and also increase its cooldown to 15 seconds but make heilang spawn in already aggressive mode and it only goes passive if you command it to go passive and not the opposite which is what we have now


    Now these changes might seem like a lot but even if every single one of them was implemented no questions asked you'd still not even be a top 5 class in bdo. You would still be relatively slow for the most part, still have slow cast speeds unless canceled with iframe but you'd be at least a bit tankier in LBD which can be used slightly more defensive cus of the increased DR
    you would still be unable to catch racecars and be slow, you'd still have no hide and most of your skills would still have no propulsion so a kuno/ninja who have permanent 20% ms increase (from target chase) and no stamina consumption and a selfbuff for movement speed and a bunch of skills with frontal propulsion will still be faster than you (Unless u use superbuff for movement speed increase)

    the class would be a lot more viable, a lot more fun to play and a lot more reliable and skills would work a lot more and you'd have more options than what you have now but you'd still have limited mobility and survivability which is fine cus that's its concept anyway, by default tamer is a flanker/backline harasser and a fully melee class so it needs to have more "power" than it does now - just like mystic and striker have ridiculous amount of defense and movement speed and even damage

    even with all these changes, the damage remains unchanged its just that heilang will be slightly more reliable, you'd still have a "meh" awakening superbuff but it would be way better and actually usable, you'd have more than 1 engage cus trample and 57 rabam would actually work

    the class right now is so bad that i had to come up with all those changes to even see it as semi-viable because right now its so far away from viability, there are no tamers that do good and i see all tamers in europe as free kills to me and the only way theyre not free kills is if they have teammates assisting them and in that scenario you can literally succeed with any class so whatever, even if a tamer had 10 people babysitting and supporting it and giving you heals and PA you're still super low range high risk class that'll always be outnumbered (due to being melee with smaller hitboxes than warrior ult and much slower and less protected than maehwa/musa) Even if your teammates wanted to set you up to carry the moment a few geared people focus you its over, pulls and grabs completely screw tamer over and it's so squishy that even if you dont get cced you can die through SA. And like i said its fully melee so you can easily kite it and it's obvious and predictable what a tamer wants to do if you see one


    all my threads ive mostly been hoping for bug fixes like moonlight/lbp and iframes not activating and stuff but i was always aware that this is the absolutely bare minimum that the class needs to "exist" but if i were to make it as powerful as the others that's what it would require, at least in this point and time which could change in the future depending on various factors


    at the end of the day even getting moonlight/lbp fixed will be a big thing but it's been so fricken long since these skills are problematic and nothing is happening so its hard to even hope.. but with this thread at least i'll know that i told them what the class needs to be fair

    tldr; too many unreliable skills, need fix (berserk, 57 rabam, lbp, moonlight etc)
    too slow, need speed buffs
    too many skills are unusable cus unprotected, need some more protection (trample flash bolt jolt all these)
    heilang too unreliable (randomly missing target or not hitting your target or chasing a guy instead doing followup on lbd)
    too high risk on some things for too little payoff (grab is pretty much suicide against most people nowadays and the whole nature of tamer is too high risk cus melee without extra protection)
     
    Eri 4, Assilma, Loushu and 21 others like this.
  2. Alrikmerc

    Alrikmerc Grimmdhal Tamer 63 NA

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    Yeah, pretty much. Not 100% on them, but i'd be happy with everything here as it really wouldn't make is OP, just a lot tighter.
     
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  3. Adre

    Adre NewMoon Kunoichi EU

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    Agreed to 100%
     
    Assilma and irrelevant like this.
  4. Syun

    Syun Seeon Tamer 61 NA

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    Grinding as a tamer is aids, with absolutes out we were already at a disadvantage because our absolutes are close range. It wasnt AS BAD before because everyone was forced into awk stance for dmg.

    My 58 210ap ranger learnt wotw and I had to add mob packs as fillers because I was too fast, I contemplated pet upgrades because I was moving too fast between packs.

    On my 60 tamer with the same Ap, more accuracy, and Kutum. I had to revert to the 57 ranger rotation.

    This is mostly pve btw and the problem here is that Tamer progresses slower than other classes. Ninja apparently is the next contender at sucky grinding but even ninja is miles ahead of tamer with way more mobility options.

    The skill hit count is a big issue in PvE aswell. Way more noticeable on Tamer because she has the lowest hit count skills in the game, what a surprise. Our absolute bj is 3 hits total, our "bread and butter" cant even 1 shot certain mob packs and we're forced on repetition. Stamina is an issue when grinding. As ranger I can be at 0 stamina but as long as Im able to cast A SINGLE soft cd wotw the mob pack is dead. Allround takes too long to kill mobs, LBD is slow wind and seldom 1 shots, BJ has no range, Trembling is nice and Resonance is another trembling but both high hard cds. Mobility is crap, abs flash pole stance trample and whiplash are slow and dont 1 shot Nagas.

    To put things in perspective and summarize; Tamer progresses at snail pace. I would rather switch to my alts if I wanted to grind mobs for loot. It is that much more efficient now.
     
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  5. rximmortal

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    they just added block to Ranger :D
     
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  6. Von_Blaumark

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    Again here is a good summary of what's wrong with the tamer class and a bunch of constructive points made to address the situation. And for those who pay attention to it, Irrelevant even skipped on most of his usual hyperbole to stress his points.

    I can fully agree to almost all the points and wish for the GM/DM/Dev team to pay heed to it.

    I, too, main tamer and love my character if not the class. The class causes many headaches. And for grinding i choose to switch to another class way too often.
    The marketplace is well supplied with tamer weaponry because players are quitting the class over and over.
    And if you want another hint at the situation just spectate some nodewars and sieges. Show me the guild that brings more than one tamer to a nodewar fight. Show me the sieges where tamers can bring something to the table. Show me the Ghyfin Rhasia parties who accept a tamer.

    Yesterdays war again I saw one tamer in one of the 3 enemy guilds actually on the attack. When we went to harass one of the forts there was (as is the case so often) a lonely sad Heilang sitting next to a flame tower. That's tamer life.

    And finally to quote Kakao's twitter message from 27.April: "Pearl Abyss and Kakao Games stand for peace, prosperity and inclusion." Inclusion. So take steps not to exclude tamer players from nodewars and similar aspects of the game.
     
    #6 Von_Blaumark, May 2, 2018
    Last edited: May 2, 2018
    Kashi56, Assilma, Eri 4 and 1 other person like this.
  7. VorteX332

    VorteX332 Tamer 61 EU

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    I would love to see at least some of this , but i highly doubt it. The devs somehow think tamer is fine the way it is. They do not listen to their community.
    But hope dies last right?
     
  8. bobo1979

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    Quit the game to let forum rest
     
  9. rximmortal

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    Just some enlightment. Why tamer is fine at least on statistic.
    The majority of players in this game are not good. Tamer kit has everything she needs to be able to overcome any opponent ( even if not safe enough ). Tamer basic combo rotation is ez. So all these stuffs follows to Tamer being able to not hardly rekt most of the players on 1on1 situation.
    On siege / nw situation , there are so little tamer in general and most of them are fed as ****. So they basically finish with good Kill/Death ratio-> which statistic wise shows that tamer is Okey, which of course is far from the truth.
    In reality it is that:
    On high gear / high skill level of play - Tamer is not even mid tier , she is more like mid-low. Simply because she is not safe enough to compete with the rest of the class and do not have any burst skills.
    On Sieges Being unsafe is a huge factor for tamer cuz u play with reduced FPS which follows to you being randomly caught. On top of it you don't have any BIG aoe dmg skills which follows to that tamer hard make kills and make a good score.

    What tamer needs most is that:
    1.) I doubt they will make only tamer grab SA . -> All grabs in game should be SA.
    2.) I agree that moonstrike should be full SA , But I think they will never change that because than tamer will become ultra strong , 1on1 wise.
    3.) Simply because of the online and desync aspect of the game LBP should be full SA.
    4.) Tamer need AOE burst dmg , the most easiest way to do that and not break the balance is to make Awakening ultimate of tamer deal more dmg , or Make it not split dmg.
    5.) And finally I think they need to rework the pet. They need to make current PET attacks to be AOE ( big dmg ). That way pet cannot fail mishitting enemy and it will be viable in Siege. Plus they need to make the Pet actually deal dmg on its own. Not being ignored by everyone.
     
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  10. PrimulaRose

    PrimulaRose Tamer EU

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    I never say this on your posts, but this time I 100% agree on all of this.
    Also we have been advertised like a mobile/agile class... Then why are we so slow? I've been wondering about this for soooo long now.
    Also give us something like a triple dash like Mystic and Striker. It would actually make us mobile.
     
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  11. Ibirujo

    Ibirujo Ibirujo Tamer 62 EU

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    Well, they just buffed Wizard and Ranger, also giving the worst grab the worst buff. They probably do this intentionally or Tamer in korea is somehow magically the best class in the game. Probably gonna reroll Valk soon if they manage to not buff tamer within the next Month. Would be nice to give everyone some weapon change coupons after they fck their class for two years
     
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  12. LigtZ

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    When rximmortal asks for buffs you know that Tamer needs them :D
     
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  13. Lenerlink

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    Welp void is dead that **** hits 13 times....so 0.7/1 cc limit for stiff...
     
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  14. Syun

    Syun Seeon Tamer 61 NA

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    This is so ironic. I dont know if anyone has noticed but the past like 7+ patch notes didnt include tamer at all and if they did it was changes like early level. Even costume changes have disappeared. I dont know how long it's been since we've seen commendable change.
     
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  15. Sarangeril

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    I agree like a lot of people have said already with all of this. Sadly at this point, I have come to realize that the people who decide buffs/nerfs have no clue what they are doing and this seems really clear with the latest patch notes. I have tried to keep dreaming that Tamer will be shown positive attention that it needs but it just won't happen. They are too focused on making a few select classes better as they have done for well over a year now.
     
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  16. LigtZ

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    They could at least revert the jin bolt jolt change they did in korea becuase they thought it was strong now that air attack modifiers went down, cause at this point I dont think it will matter that much.
     
  17. Akiko

    Akiko Tamer 62

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    After fixing all costumes for a year they are finally done with it / have to wait for new costumes to fix, no need for Tamer in patch notes anymore.

    I even have to agree on Rx's post in this thread which is ridiculous in first place but there is nothing to add. But dev's are most likely way too busy to ruin the game even more sooo..
     
  18. Revalenia

    Revalenia Lahn 62 EU

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    Sounds good.
     
  19. 920

    920 Ninetwenty Tamer 62 EU

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    I agree with everything except the final point (see you can make sense when you get over spite)

    I dont think heilang's attack should be huge AOE.

    I think heilang needs to be redesigned in a way that:
    1. all tamer animations are linked to heilang animations (meaning whatever skill i use , heilang also does a certain skill himself in mirror with me)
    2. heilang's speed to react should be improved dramatically (as they say) , at the moment the only time he actually gets to deal dmg is when people are cced/standing in place for no reason at all but lets be honest when does that happen.
    3. make it something that we can actually use as a weapon willingly , there are so many options for tamer to be redesigned in a way where heilang plays a bigger role in its gameplay. Simply creating more animations that react like Void Lightning and Fearfull tremble (or whatever shift +f non awk is called) would make it so much better.

    I mean i dont know about you guys , but the first time i heard about this game and what they wanna do with it i was super excited for tamer. Back in 2014 or 2015 the combat system we kept on seeing in KR beta was out of this world. The ideea of having a class with a pet that you can integrate into that combat system made me settle for tamer (that and of course its fast paced combat style).
     
    #19 920, May 7, 2018
    Last edited: May 7, 2018
  20. Himmelsfall

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    i think thats a very good points. that can increase tamers value while grinding. yes tamer can pull more mobs, but we dont realy take a profit from it. we have small aoe and so grinding is not that good. if can can get from group to group faster thats way better for us and really needed. you dont have to change pve dmg or skill dmg for this suggestion.
     

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