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Emergency Buff Sorceress: Awakening and Non-awakening are BOTH weak

Discussion in 'Sorceress' started by Nexius, Jan 2, 2018.

  1. Nexius

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    * To any new readers, new constructive and realistic ideas are welcome! I will periodically update and review this thread daily until we get what we want. Anything you can contribute to push toward PA please bring them up and I will add them.

    My brief intro

    To preface this I'm a long time sorceress player on NA, having played the better part of two years I've been in multiple siege guilds, so I've been involved in "endgame" PvP from the days sorc was at it's strongest pre-awakening all the way through now. My gear hasnt been THE best of all the sorceress that comprise the server but I've maintained a relevancy to compete to the best of my ability and the limits of the class.

    My current main build: [​IMG]https://imgur.com/a/uia0s

    As you can see I can hit up to 240 Sheet AP, with the gems included into my build I have around 250+ effective AP and even more when factoring in active skills, food buffs, siege buffs, etc. Despite all the front loaded stats definitely geared toward being offensively potent, my sorceress is still very underwhelming. Even with Jin and Rabaam skills on the horizon it doesn't look too promising, all classes will get this ability update and our gameplay wont improve much. We need specific things improved across the board for our class.



    History of Sorceress changes since Awakening
    Basically sorceress got chain nerfed, with a few QoL changes that hardly did anything to improve PvP whatsoever.


    List of important changes Sorceress needs
    • Stronger Violation skill (add Super Armor or Lower Cool down & bring back air attack damage+ higher % damage modifier)
    • Uncap Grim Reaper Judgement skill Damage
    • Stronger Cartian Protection 100% (improve damage % + CC so it pulls enemies)
    • Remove Cool down of Flow:Requiem
    • Lower Cool down of Bloody Calamity and Imminent Doom in non-awakened
    • Add Frontal Guard on Turn Back Slash skill
    • Increase % damage of Dead hunt skill on all hits and add Frontal Guard or Super Armor.
    • Add Frontal Guard/Super Armor & Increase % damage of Ultimate:Shadow Eruption skill
    • More ways to generate Shard of Darkness in Scythe while attacking
    • Signs of Agony skill needs more hits/accuracy for cc to apply
    • Increase % damage of Crow Flare skill
    • Fix Sinister Omen Bug
    • Sorceress movement speed/ movement animation slower than others
    The problem with sorceress
    ALL OF Sorceress abilities are far too weak compared to the rest of the cast, even after Jin & Rabaam. Sorceress is in a state right now that it cannot truly perform the duties it once did in large or small scale; which is to say it cannot consistently and reliably kill targets due to very weak skills, both awakened and non-awakened. With new classes emerging every couple months buffs and adjustments happening to a plethora of the current class cast it's harder to play sorceress with every new update. Even with multiple gear variants ranging from full AP, to heavy accuracy, to full evasion to hybrid, against a variety of targets; I've tried what I could within the limits of my gear as well as closely observed others, had open discussion and tested various builds with veteran sorcerers such as myself who have been blessed with better gear but to no avail. Everything falls down to one common denominator, no matter what you run, you're always faced in a scenario where what your sorceress builds is never enough, or is as proficient as other classes who fill a similar niche to be as influential.

    Your sorceress will never have enough AP to burst down targets within a reasonable GS range, your sorceress will never have enough accuracy to one combo truly dedicated evasion builds, your sorceress will never have enough evasion to make a full evasion build work as well as other classes; in which you utilize all the benefits of a full tank and are blessed with the ability to take out single targets who get knocked down due to the special attack +1 modifier present on all evasion offhands. Your class always feels second rate compared to any other class running these builds. Whats frustrating about it is that you as a sorceress need to be able to take out targets. You don't provide a lot of cc or support abilities. Your kit is based around dueling, so your job is to make skillful isolation plays and take out priority targets, but how can you do that when no build is potent enough to do that?

    The only scenario you fulfill your role is if you out gear your opponents heavily, with your offensive stats outpacing their defensive stats in absurd amounts. Facing a target with 340+DP? I hope you have 260+AP with some off sourced accuracy in hefty amounts so that you can deal with that individual, otherwise you're just another fly on the wall. It's just sad that a class that only brings damage stylistically, does not deal proper amounts of damage with top end gear. Before nerfs we only were competitng with rangers to do the most burst single target damage, now any class can outmatch out damage, barring mystic. This needs correction.


    Root of The Issue
    So why is sorceress in the state it's in currently? It goes all the way back to one crucial point in time when Sorceress was needlessly unilaterally nerfed. In the NA patch notes we were only given an "adjustment" to violation as the change they openly documented, but if you dig a little deeper, you can trace changes months prior in Korea which reduced the effectiveness of; Cartian protection 100% rage spirit attack, Violation, Flow: cry of Darkness, our AP buff and Grim Reaper Judgement.

    Cartian Protection 100% (Sorc Ball)
    At the time Cartian Protection rage 100% was a staple skill all competitive guilds needed in their group compositions. The "sorc ball" forced players caught in it to follow the ball, take damage and stay relatively stationary. Once the ball exploded targets within the ball seldom lived and the ball in essence dictated how groups engaged one another. Very similar to how we Treat wizard and witch protected area to this day. It was nerfed and that nerf included lowering the damage (and accuracy), and completely reducing or seemingly removing the cc or suction effect it once had.

    What this did was weaken the 100% to the point anyone could use movement abilities through it (barring a few classes which had coding errors with the skill and would get stuck), and the damage it output was only enough to maybe kill one or two players not really paying attention to the presence of the skill. If this skill picks up any kills for you as a sorceress, the enemy is massively undergeared or about to die anyway due to residual damage coming elsewhere.

    Violation
    The violation ability used to be very powerful, casting it on an enemy unsuspecting would melt their hp bar, Now to even mimic a fraction of that damage you need to land not only the float but also the last slash and even then you're doing about 1/3 of what it used to do. There used to be many complaints over this skill because off cooldown it has frontal guard, but in today's game frontal guard on this ability is pretty standard, if not below average. When many classes can boast super armors and higher multipliers. Whats even more frustrating is that the damage is no longer there, so even very geared sorcs need to use more than this ability to take out very squishy targets.

    Why is this a problem? Because it is one of our few protected abilities and our bread and butter for the awakening. If our go to ability cannot do much damage on it's own, and all the supplemental abilities do even less damage (barring Grim judgement) what hope does a sorceress have realistically to finish off an unskilled, unsuspecting or weak target? It's far too tall an order in all honesty and there's no justification for it. Maybe when classes did not have any awakenings, but all of them do now.


    Grim Reaper Judgement
    If the other two abilities had you one the fence let me tell you a little something about Grim Reaper Judgement. Before the nerf, when my sorceress had 190 awakening AP, I could take out scores of undergeared players who had thier backs turned. After the nerf I' be lucky to do 70% of the damage. Whats more, any sorceress who had more AP than me and even to this day would not exceed the damage I do on this ability. The ability is damage capped, the specifics are unknown to whre the cap starts but it's very apparent. Once A sorc with lets say 200AP reach a point they do 60-70% dmg to a target, anymore AP they gain will have a negligible difference to the damage of the ability. Why is our ability inherently capped? We already have no protection, the ability is not instantly cast, very telegraphed and can be blocked. Why can we not build a lot of AP, to scale our most damaging abilities to wipe fodder enemies in our way? Is it really unreasonable that any class with a lot of gear deal some pretty disgusting damage with a lot of gear? Most other classes do, out of all of them we seem to scale the least with gear and it's all due to these artificial nerfs.

    Supporting Skills
    If thats not enough to convince you, how about the fact that all of the supporting abilities are either naked, do no damage, have ridiculously long cool downs or are a combination of those issues. There is not a safe way into amulet form from scythe, we are very vulnerable here. "C" swapping provides frontal guard but is not instantaneous and will get you into cc and then subsequently killed, midnight stinger is fast but has no protection on it, trying to disengage to hide and then swap is impractical because your gap closers are on long cooldown and your extended i-frame (nightmare) is on an even longer cooldown and it's flow is even longer than that (Flow:Requiem 1min cd...). his is unnecessary to keep the sorceress on her back foot for so long due to long cool downs, but to at the same time to minimal damage on her uptime. You cannot safely combo abilities because most of them offer no protection, some of them have no way of canceling into each other, and to top it off most do no damage on their own. Even your amulet slows are very mediocore. The slow debuff or stiffens from sign of agony, mark of shadow or your night crow don't slow your targets much at all, they move still very fast to catch up to you.

    But this is more than just rebalancing how effective the sorceress can command her presence in large scale or small scale through one ability. Since the balancing team decided to take multiple actions on multiple occasions to target every single one of the sorceress most powerful abilities and make them weak, none of them are dangerous on their own. The sorceress kit is clearly geared toward isolating targets, debuffing them with multiple abilities and having enough damage to kill them. Our cc's dont let us pick off weak players, our damage dont let us kill weak ones either. Even with Endgame gear on the most skilled sorceress within the various international communities, you can witness how lack luster it is comparatively to any average player of any strong class in your own domestic region. The best players of the sorceress class, with very high end gear and skill tend to have a harder time than your average witch, wizard, warrior, valkyrie, striker or even dark knight.

    Proposed Solution?
    Give a great amount of power back to the sorceress awakening and non-awakening. This is the only logical solution, the sorceress is a very skill reliant class. Nothing about it is simple or easy, nor was it ever. Even in the height of the sorceress awakening, a sorceress had to master the non-awakened and combine those movements and abilities with the awakened to perform well. A masterful sorceress needs the damage to back up all of the risk involved with playing the class and theres still a lot of risk. Fans of this class do not want the class to be easier to play mechanically, we want our damage when we have become skilled enough to land it seamlessly to hurt a lot like it should.

    We do not have a grab, we do not have multiple cc's, we do not have many abilities we can bombard an enemy from range like dark knight, or an entire kit riddled with super armor and frontal guard and cc on every ability to make it easy like dark knight. We are very easy to kill if we make ONE mistake, we cannot even participate in large fights or even small ones if we dont know how to animation cancel everything and move properly. All we have are precise key strokes, some i-frames and an imagination to make an outplay 1v1 or 1vx to take out the enemy. If our damage is not there, we cannot enjoy the class.

    Because we sacrifice so much by not playing other less mechanically intensive classes, we shouldn't have to sacrifice damage. Our damage should rival the strongest damaging classes like wizard due to this, but it does not, it rivals pre-buff musa. Thats really sad and should change. Theres been too many very skilled Sorceress that have felt forced to reroll because the years of practice have shown little fruit with the gear and skill they have accumulated with the class. Please buff this classes damage heavily!


     
    #1 Nexius, Jan 2, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2018
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  2. Nebz

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    TL:DR but sorc is arguably one of the worst classes right now along with musa
     
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  3. Reigne Irkalla

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    What's your accuracy when you mouse over it in your equipment panel
     
  4. Santapoop

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    Honestly, I rerolled from a 61 sorc into a wizard and I really am disappointed with the balance of this game.

    With all the lag and shitty desync issues, it is very difficult to play a sorc class which rely on good timing of iframes and skills.

    When DK came out, every aspect of this class outshined what Sorc does, and alot of sorcs rerolled off to DK.

    I held off as long as possible but, to play sorc, we either need a buff to be more forgiving or better server so we dont desyn and lag which always kills us.
     
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  5. DooM_PvP

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    I read now this thread and its like i already knew word by word..
    Is hard push for have more gs (lvl60 513gs here) and see people with new class that make x2 even x3 damage/tanky (same gs)
    Maybe when the sorc costumes will not sell anymore someone will read these discussions and then understand
    "we could have done something"
     
    #5 DooM_PvP, Jan 3, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2018
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  6. Zubia

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    Nice recap of the current state of Sorc. I am running quite a bit more of accuracy in my current build (328 + 48 from crystals) but I feel the very same. What I saw in recently released videos and streams of KR players, Sorc seems to struggle against almost all classes in 1v1 now after rambam release especially because of comparably low damage output. So all it is good for is an unreliable CC to support other classes which can be countered by anyone smart enough to block, SA dash or iframe. Sad to say this but I may finally reroll because Sorc with current damage output is too frustrating to play in a superarmor and grab meta.
     
  7. Ashenvall

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    You are forgeting useless and edgy situational skills like cartian's nightmare, BoD, cry, vile plan, remember, mark of the shadow is a joke, absolute darkness, black wave(good damages but so slow and so unprotected) dark machine, dark trade (completely unfair compared to others classes atm), bloody contract is completely inferior to spirit satiation (DK Spell, faster and powerfull), sinister omen, sinister shadow, darkness release (cz it provides no CC), sharp claws.
    Midnight stinger became trash, weak damages, no protection but we can "cancel" everything with.
    Crow flare is the shadow of itself, so much potential lost for this spell.
    No Frontal guard for Dead Hunt, TBS is a weak skill compared to others classes also.
    Nightmare and requiem has long cooldown, no true CC, no damages.(i would like freezing for requiem just to be cool like death kek )
    Violation, CP, and GRJ was nerfed hard without considerate new classes and new awakenings.
    Shadow eruption would have to be more powerfull but we have only two (weak) hit.... And the ultimate is just pitiful.
    Why don't we have to cast it at short range and long range? ( Remind you KR beta)
    Sign of agony has no purpose anymore, it's just a waste of SP.
    We can't handle charged abyssal flame between iframe and we have no possibility to cast it quickly except (iframe +LMB+RMB).
    Why are we the only class which can't regen mana (or shard) with simple AA in awakening ? (DoD spell's awakening is not a justification for me)
    Why are we the only class which can't regen mana with awakening spells?
    Dark bound (passive) completely inferior to magic power boost from mages (even if we consider shard comsomption).
    We don't have active skill in pre awakening like DK, striker, mystic or recently Lahn.

    Bloody calamity is just a Frankenstein's monster reanimated by PA bcz of the players. But, now I think Gahaz Sorceress looks like more powerfull with this spell at long range. i would like to cast bloody calamity at short and long range.

    Conclusion: pre awak is outdated and awakening is also outdated bcz it was design to fight unawakened classes at the release. Now, it's not the case anymore.

    We need a new design: mid range/ close range assassin like. With real tools, not fragmented or partial one.

    P.S: I hope Lemon/Irrelevant doesn't mess your thread.:|:(D:<
     
    #7 Ashenvall, Jan 3, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2018
  8. Ctrl

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    Few corrections to your post -

    The accuracy on sorc ball is actually 100%, very easy to test on a high evasion target without any accuracy yourself.

    C swap from scythe into amulet has no Frontal Guard, every ability that swaps us back into amulet has no protection whatsoever.

    That's true to an extent, for some reason GRJ damage get's absolutely mauled by DR of the target. From testing rank 1 vs rank 4 of GRJ on a 0 DP vs 260 DP target, the difference between them was approximately 300 damage on a 0 DP target and 50 damage vs a 260 DP target. That is an absolutely tiny difference given a 250%x4 damage modifier between these ranks.


    Overall a decent post even if not outlining other stuff that's outdated and/or not working correctly (made a few posts regarding these myself).
     
  9. Nexius

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    Oh for sure, I'm aware of the various bugs and **** that don't work. Though in my mind i'd rather highlight the real important ****, rather than seeing a buff to **** we'd barely ever use anyway. Like how pissed would I be to see sinister omen get like a 200% damage buff, yet Violation isnt worth jack ****, Sorc Ball doesnt do jack ****, GRJ still wonky and dumb. Like ya know? I'd rather our best abilities become actually reliable and very strong; both awakened abilities nd non-awakened such as DoD, Midnight stinger, Shadow eruption, Ultimate:Shadow eruption (which was left unbuffed as to which idk why....). Like these skills really do need a buff, it's pitiful how little damage we actually do, and like some people think im exaggerating, but like if they actually played the class with similar gear to their mains, they would understand why and probably immediately feel like the class is complete and utter garbage.
     
  10. n1ghty

    n1ghty Sorceress 62 EU

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    i really hate how grj is a mere shadow of itself,dealing garbo damage no matter how much ap/acc you have. Considering how slow and predictable it is -.-
     
  11. Jurra

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    Too bad the devs don't care lol
     
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  12. Lobselvith

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    I have to agree, sorceress is a great class, not because of its current state but its play style, and I want to see sorceress get fixed so it shines the way she should!!
    Sorceress used to be a assassin class, now we are just a stylish pve class that only shines if we out gear someone, which sucks.
    please fix Sorceress!!
     
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  13. prymortal

    prymortal Sorceress 61 NA

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    NEBZ!!!!!!!!!!!! Tournament WHERE its a year overdue!
     
  14. Wollbert

    Wollbert Ranger 62 EU

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    is this a meme?
     
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  15. Snoffie

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    Please leave my life skill character alone.
    She doesn' need no buffs for chopping down the trees with scythe
     
  16. Korpii

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    Surprised noone mentioned the best rage consumption Z buff in the universe ;p Magnitude of insult to sorc players in this one is very strong :D
     
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  17. Beeso

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    Wait for it.
     
  18. Askore

    Askore Lahn EU

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    The worse thing about sorc is the lack of dmg..
    You can get around the lack of SA on stinger with shadow leap before or lingering block + calamity cancel, but when you don't have enough protected damage or cc extenders to kill anything above 280dp 100-0 with the best protected engage we have (vio or grj) then you can't do anything in medium scale on your own. the only classes we are dealing dmg to are ranger and tamer.

    On top of that we are rooted in place for 2 seconds on our main damage skill and canceling it to avoid grabs means canceling all of the damage + having 10s cd, just like canceling violation last hit removes 70% of the dmg. disgustingly bad design but classes that are used to constant dmg on their skills and good cancels don't even realize how incredibly useful it is.
     
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  19. Nexius

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    The sad part is , it's not bad class design. Nothing abut the actual mechanics of the class are inherently "bad". They just have very obvious bugs they refuse to address (LOOKING AT YOU SINISTER OMEN and NIGHTMARE), and they just didnt stop nerfing the damn class. We wouldnt even need down slash of violaton if air attack on it wasnt nerfed. It's just so annoying to see other classes get all these buffs and we've been getting nerfed under the rug for months.
     
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  20. Zarkasm

    Zarkasm Mystic NA

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    problem is, sorc is the worst class, but no one talks about it
     
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