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Enhancement: The Argument Against It

Discussion in 'General Gameplay' started by Belle Atwell, Mar 11, 2020.

  1. Belle Atwell

    Dec 19, 2015
    Likes Received:
    Last evening I had:
    two 100 FS
    ten 50 FS
    one 40 FS
    twenty-three 30 FS
    forty-two 20 FS
    one 10 FS

    500 crons
    120 advice of valks
    Funds: 160,000,000 silver

    Goal: get TWO Heve Helmets from ZERO to TET

    I currently have:
    two 100 FS
    five 50 FS
    one 40 FS
    twenty-one 30 FS
    twelve 20 FS

    49 crons
    12 advice of valks
    Funds Lost: -152,000,000
    Funds Retained: 8,000,000 silver

    Process: made 4 TRI Heve Helmets more one click each

    second round - downgraded all helmets to DUO
    third round - downgraded all helmets to DUO
    fourth round - upgraded all helmets to DUO
    fifth round - upgraded one helmet to TRI
    sixth round - upgraded three helmets to DUO
    seventh round - upgraded one stack to a replacement TRI stack
    eighth round - upgraded one helmet to TET
    ninth round - upgraded one helmet to TRI
    tenth round - upgraded one helmet to DUO
    eleventh round - downgraded same helmet to PRI
    twelfth round - upgraded helmet back to DUO

    Total Upgrades:
    one TET
    one TRI
    one DUO
    one PRI

    Hours Lost: (2 (per character) ) + ( 6 hours (per character leveled to 55) )
    Stacks by Quantity & Type:
    5, 3, 1
    30 fs, 20 fs, 50 fs
    multiplied by 8
    40, 24, 8
    acquired from: Valencia 1 story line (accessible at level 55)

    Hours Lost Total so Far: (2(8) + ( 6 (8)) = 16 + 48 = 64
    Hours Lost in Days = 2.67 days

    Hours Spent USING the Failstacks: 4

    Total Hours Lost: 64 + 4 = 68
    Total Days Lost = 2.83 DAYS

    To any Teens to Young-Adults Reading This:

    Please understand what this means. YOU are giving up DAYS OF YOUR LIFE to a a game.
    • You could be using this time to learn another Language
    • Which is a REAL Skill
    • This will be with you for the rest of your life
    • This is time you could have used to get a job to get REAL Experience
    • And REAL Money
    • Which will be with you for the rest of your life
    For the Rest of the Player Base:
    The same is still true... with the caveat that no one is looking out for you when you behave irresponsibly.

    Let's Be Honest with Ourselves:
    This is NOT a GAME.
    • There exists no strategy to this system.
    • There is nothing to do which you can "game" here to "win" ON YOUR OWN AGENCY
    • Agency, personal agency, determines whether something is GAMBLING or GAMING.
    - there's a difference
    • This function is here to deliberately ROB you of not only your REAL TIME (...Life...), but also you PLAY TIME
    As a player you should NEVER use Enhancing to progress your character BEYOND TRI Gear.
    - the exception to this is as you have seen above
    - I had accumulated a large number of failstacks
    - I wanted to see if using a stack above 100 on Green Gear would produce any DIFFERENT results from working with Boss Items or Black Star

    • Conclusion: Absolutely Not
    I thought about comparing Enhancing to a Poker game when I begin this study:
    • Black Star
    • Boss Item
    • Blue Item
    • Green Item
    • Item Enhancement Level
    • Crons
    • Valks
    • Stacks
    • These are your "Material Assets" like "Chips" in a Poker game.
    This hypothesis was incorrect. Regardless of using Boss Items, Black Stars, Blues, or Greens
    (I've tried all of them)

    • the results are the same
    • Item Level +9 to +15 requires 20 FS
    • Item Level +15 to PRI requires 15 FS
    • Item Level PRI to DUO requires 35 FS
    • Item Level DUO to TRI requires 45 FS
    • Item Level TRI to TET requires 80 FS
    • Item Level TET to PEN requires 160 FS
    In terms of DAYS of YOUR LIFE
    • Given the study above?
    • 2.8 days per 1 TET FS
    • 13 inventory slots (multiplied by 8) is 104 days
    • For MMO this is almost reasonable
    However, ...
    • For one PEN item you need 14,900,000,000 silver
    • 14,900,000,000 / 600,000,000 per TET = 24.8 TETs
    • 104 DAYS multiplied by 24.8 = 2,678.4 days
    • 2,678.4 DAYS / 365.25 DAYS = ... 7.341 years
    Do you see a problem here?
    A slight "imbalance" possibly?

    Maybe as though there ISN'T something in the game?

    Oh, that's right.

    There isn't a MEANS in the game to GENERATE these stacks without GIVING UP more TIME to the PROCESS than the process GIVES BACK in PLAY.

    By the TIME you would actually upgrade get the STACK ... NOT the ITEM ...

    • you'd have already played longer than you did for ALL of your time getting to TET.
    • Is there enough content for TET Players to grind?
    • Is there content for TET players to grind?
    • What about PEN players?
    • Answer: No. Once you are in TRI Gear you've access to all existing content.
    Thus, all I have been doing is wasting time. I should have just continue grinding. This was a time lost process.
    • ~ There are barely any Group locations
    • ~ Zero Group Dungeons
    • ~ Nothing that isn't a copy-paste of what you've done before Solo
    Even the group content involves running from location to location rather than being able to relax at one location or rewards large enough to warrant having some break sessions were we can chill out together before getting back into it. Ala, PLAY.
    • running from location to location has started to lead to crashes because there's some kind of packing / unpacking issue
    • Conclusion: If you get to TET you've reached the end of the game because regardless of what new content comes out the Devs haven't bothered to put any thought into making the new content ENTERTAINING
    Beginning to Address these Issues:

    Idea I

    Someone the other night reading my posts stated that the this game should have a Diablo style solution to Enhancing System.

    • I've proposed something similar and I think there is merit to this argument on its own.
    • Imagine going out into the world.
    • You find a Blue Item
    • You find a Red Item
    • Just like the anniversary events
    • You can put them together
    • It makes Yellow item.
    • The Yellow Item is the "Stack Size" (replacing current Enhancing)
    • It could be any size.
    • You go make (or buy) an Alchemy Stone X
    • The better the Alchemy Stone the bigger the Stack Size you can put into it.
    • Alchemy Stone X could be made from any activities stuff. Just certain sizes would be required so that the prices would equalize fairly (same cost ultimately)
    • Use Alchemy Stone X to put Yellow Items together... thus building your Stacks
    And TADA!

    GAME - play
    PLAY - personal agency

    Otherwise, to do Enhancing currently you are quite honestly ABORTING your REAL LIFE and ALL TIME SPENT PLAYING for a CHANCE to have the game VALIDATE IT.

    In summary,
    Currently Enhancing is actually the process by which your TIME PLAYED is Validated or Voided by the game-Engine.

    • However,
    • It is not GAME
    • and it has no PLAY to it.

    Idea 2:
    Similar to Idea 1 you construct on Alchemy Stone Y

    • Alchemy Stone Y can be made using any items in the world.
    • Just a specific amount of them depending on the item
    • You can blend Alchemy Stone Ys with Ys to make Ys +
    • Make an Alchemy Stone X
    • Alchemy can be Enhanced
    • Alchemy Stone X has Durability
    • Alchemy Stone X can only be repaired with Memory Fragments or a monetary amount of Item Y's crafting Materials that modify to the price of Memory Fragments
    • Alchemy Stone X is used to build stacks just like Items are currently
    • When Alchemy Stone X reaches 0 Durability you must Repair
    • Attempting to Upgrade Alchemy Stone X (or doing durability damage to it) builds makes Alchemy Stone Zs
    Alchemy Stone Z
    • Go to a Blacksmith and purchase an Alchemy Stone B
    • Alchemy Stone B becomes your Blacksmith's Secret Book / Advice of Valks for this item
    Again... Tada... GAME (structure) and PLAY.


    Either of the above methods would lead to ANY activity being giving a RESPECTABLE process of VALIDATING A PLAYER'S TIME PLAYED rather than pissing in their shoes then putting those shoes on a heater so they stink like piss every time they wear them... which is what the current Enhancement system is.

    The second system isn't as streamlined as the first, but might be a little more appreciated by people who like a hands-on approach and is honestly probably a little bit more in the spirit of the game as a whole. (I mean that in a good way)


    Findubar, Avitohol, LucidKill and 2 others like this.
  2. Fearless V

    Fearless V Lahn 60 NA

    Dec 28, 2017
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    Now can you tell us something we don't know?
    Fleurya, Kasu, Hondo_Lane and 4 others like this.
  3. Vortexii

    Jan 20, 2020
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    A very important message that actually details a lot of information that is generally not covered. Everyone knows the failstack process is a janky Pay2Win mess, but the TIME wasted in this process is excessive. It could easily be streamlined into a much quicker process.

    We are not talking about wasting a few minutes, but literally hours or even days as mentioned above. If you really want a proper PEN stack and not just spam Cron Stones, it takes an excessive amount of time breaking TETS and rebuilding them.

    While this process is 100% designed to consume your time, it requires far to many character reloads, and tracking of simply to many items. It's clunky at best. Even the items created to reduce the time are honestly still a bit expensive. Adding further loss and frustrating to the process.

    By design, any system that works by continually loading characters is an automatic failure that could have been designed more efficiently. It really is a problem.
  4. Wiwax

    Mar 27, 2016
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    Well said op,for me every aspect of this game is broken or needs money.
    played the first year and i was afk 3 years ,fishing.
  5. Boink

    Aug 14, 2017
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    Here are a couple of tips from a PRO FTP Enhancer:

    One: Stop using HEVE although sometimes the market becomes favorable it's been hyped way too much when there are other cheaper solutions for that problem. Like for example using Might and/or Fortuna even Grunil or Rocaba. Might right now is at 100k since a lot of new players are more likely farmign Helms and Fortuna it's been the same at 200k. You can make grunil less than 200k.

    Two: The problem is that you don't have enough resources to failstack on. Meaning that you have to log in back and forth why is way too time consuming. When you degrade you need to log back in another alt just to go back to your previous enhance.

    Three: Make use of your wagons. Normally when I make a lot of Grunil I send my Alt (transports back to Velia) and park it on my stable.

    So I have at least 10x by 4 (Helm, Legs, Feet, Armor) per piece Fortuna, Grunil, Heve, Rocaba, Might and 3 of which are used mainly to gear my boss alts which are normally at TET. Also some side weapons just in case I would like to try my alts and do some quest(s).


    PS: I have more they are on a different set of alt since I'm currently recovering from a PEN attempt :)
    Naviko likes this.
  6. Dryed

    Dryed Warrior 62 NA

    Feb 19, 2016
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    I'm not even gonna read that long @$$ QQ thread... Google what RNG means..
    Naviko and Sandpit_ like this.
  7. WhySoSeeryus

    WhySoSeeryus Wizard 63 EU

    Jan 31, 2018
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    i heard that this process is way less tedious if u pay for artisans, crons and valk cries in bulk! good luck adventurer! :D
  8. Souda

    Souda Warrior 61 EU

    Mar 12, 2016
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    That's why the most safest method is to save up your silver and buy tet or pen equipment from the market place, it might take a very long time but you don't have to deal with the rng nature of enhancing.
    Blitzball likes this.
  9. Khondo

    Mar 12, 2016
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    Maybe some people just love the content and challenge. If your not happy with a part of the game, don't do it. If you hate the game, play something else. Just don't complain about things other people enjoy. Playing BDO is not just about maximising money every second you play.
  10. Khondo

    Mar 12, 2016
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    Yeah but if no one did the enhancing, you would not be able to buy it from the MP.
  11. Souda

    Souda Warrior 61 EU

    Mar 12, 2016
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    I know that but there's always people enhancing lol, what i say is irrelevant it will not stop everyone in the world from enhancing
  12. RandomHajile

    Jan 21, 2020
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    This pops into my head occasionally. Not only for language, many things. Instruments, etc. However: I am a pretty high workload person, that is... I always have to be doing something. I think back before electricity that's why people did all that amazing stuff by candle-light haha. Cuz they couldn't turn their mind off and just kept thinking.

    It's good to have something to do and relax. It IS a game. It's not real. The gains, even if you are DA BESS number 1, it's worth absolutely nothing in life, but it's, as I have said before, like widget making. Some people just feel better making widgets. No reason to not let them, but yea everything in some moderation, and when you take things too seriously you end up doing crazy stuff.

    Basically, what you did was a tremendous waste of time and arguably it was a self-fulfilling prophecy or failure or, at least, you knew you weren't going to succeed. You shot yourself in the foot to prove something you already knew or should know. That being said, trying for a TET or a PEN when you have the crons every once in awhile isn't bad. Who knows, it might go thru.

    Last thought: as Boink said, there probably is a science to, while not succeed, increase your chances immensely. However, this is also arguably a tremendous waste of time. Again, widgets. My widgets are better than your widgets. No. Let me make my widgets in peace. The purpose of a game is to have fun. When it's not fun, stop.
  13. Boink

    Aug 14, 2017
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    What he did was use 4 pieces and tried to go for TET where starting numbers are around 40-50 fs. That's about 1 out of 10. The TRI rates are about 1 out of 3 or 4ish. He more likely fail TRIs and TETs and repeat the whole cycle which is time consuming.

    When I enhance (while playing online poker) I can get this done soo fast that more likely I will get a TET sometime in the next 20-30 minutes or a 110 FS. Both of which are acceptable results.

    Edit: Also don't know why he is counting the fs produce following Valencia Main Quest line. Players can create FS at a much more higher rate than Valencia quest lines. Tedious process yes.
    #13 Boink, Mar 12, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2020
  14. Factorial

    Sep 24, 2017
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    BDO RNG isn't anything new. Most of us have played games with RNG far more punishing than BDO. One of the problems with BDO RNG is that it can be mixed with real life money. That's the problem: it's essentially a casino where the under aged are allowed when they should not. This needs to be addressed and subsequently corrected.

    Most mature minded people can see what BDO enhancement is for what it is and stay clear of it.
    Souda and Fearless V like this.
  15. Boink

    Aug 14, 2017
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    I can only speculate that the individual is trying to have cheap gear or create failstacks with said cheap gear.

    Yes it's true lots of whales especially in NA. I tried to release a guide with the sole purpose of reducing the use of money. The gambling part is just the harsh reality of the game. Some sick whales just talks about it being "profitable" (which do make money English is a bad language sometimes). Also to put player's at risk when they say "it averages" when you make PENS. There are definitely better ways to look at gambling conservatively which in practice have better rates than blowing your gear for PEN.

    I don't know about "mature" minded people.... Maybe gamble responsibly or maybe a practical approach with it.
  16. woots

    Nov 18, 2015
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    It perfectly illustrate the absurdity and inconvenience of the game with all thoses RNG layer
    Especialy the "fs building" that was only supposed to be an helper when failing for the next attempt, rarely saw more cancerous "design"

    another stupidity, PA setup a degrade option via a npc BUT you have to pay ( that's 100k right ?), while doing it with an alt is free....
    I mean... couldnt just setup that degrade thing free... !?
    #16 woots, Mar 13, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2020
  17. Boink

    Aug 14, 2017
    Likes Received:

    It's not like it was prior, it was my own creation that made it as cancerous as it can be. My design started when they revealed the percentages.... Cheap way to do it. There is building FS with your boss gear which cost a lot of real money and silver.

    The best way is watch a movie or play online poker when FSing lol. Just need a mouse anyways to actually failstack.
  18. woots

    Nov 18, 2015
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    I wasnt targeting your own way with my reply, but that "need" to run things like that in general just illustrate very well their trash ""design"" ( there is really no other words to qualify that tho )

    Especialy, as i said with my preview post edition, who is going to waste 100k per downgrade when with an alt its free ( sure its annoying as hell to store -> switch -> wait to be killed XXX time -> store -> switch back -> restart )
    Thoses guys are just totaly unable to propose a system without beeing annoying at some point, that's pretty serious tbh.

    anyway ^^
  19. Boink

    Aug 14, 2017
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    I know it's boring. That's why I play online poker or sometimes do some actual work.

    Well for me it's worth using the church option since well Black stones are not as scares like back in the old days. Star's end grind normally can net me at least 50-100 black stones per hour
  20. Voxo

    May 5, 2017
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    OP is absolutely correct. Enhancing past tri is pure cancer and an unbelievable waste of time. If you value your time in silver or real life dollars the opportunity cost of wasting time and materials enchanting is way too high. The system is clunky, slow, and incredibly frustrating. It's the exact opposite of fun.

    I made the decision long ago to stop enhancing and just purchase my gains on market by saving and selling my old gear. This system saw me progress way faster and farther than everyone else in my guild by miles and now has me over 610 gear score on two characters. All while watching my guild members continually fail enchanting and make little to no progress while playing far more than me.

    PA/Kakao could make the enhancing process more engaging and enjoyable, but like so many other elements in this game it is designed to be slow and frustrating to force you into p2w shortcuts. It's a toxic policy that is incredibly scummy. But it has unfortunately netted them millions of dollars from impatient p2w chumps. This game could be so much better, but it wont be changed.
    HucKa, BraveHeart, Factorial and 5 others like this.

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