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EUNA Feedback Library

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Andaro, Sep 12, 2018.

  1. oR-Bishop

    oR-Bishop Sunspot Valkyrie 62 NA

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    My experience is that some ideas are cherry picked for consideration, irrespective of popularity or outcry of the player base. Others are ignored entirely. I don't have confidence in this process. I feel moderators use this process to steer the game to what they want, not what the players want or need.
     
    #101 oR-Bishop, Mar 21, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2019
  2. Andaro

    Andaro Archive
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    My apologies if they "appear" to be "cherry picked" , but I can assure you this is not the case. For the most part, suggestions from the Live-Form are sent to the popularity polls in the order they are received, however, sometimes I do skip a few lines to pull out topics based on the current community desires.

    There are some subjects that are "held off on" or "back burned" due to upcoming updates. For example, suggestions to Life-Skills may not necessarily appear in a current popularity poll as the Life-Skill Masteries will change many things. I say "may not" because if it is a suggestion that will be rendered "moot" or unfeasible due to those future Masteries, then the suggestion itself would not hold water, and an opinion can not be properly weighed until those changes have been received. However, there may be a suggestion that is not covered by those Masteries, and thusly would be feasible to send onward into polls. This is just one example.

    There are some suggestions that we will not touch, such as specific requests to class skills such as "give this skill this effect", because those are "core" changes that have major impacts to class balances, and the developers are constantly tinkering with those. In this specific area, a popularity poll on a specific change would not be warranted, but instead a broader "survey" would do better based on how a class "handles". This is just another example.

    So, tldr, "cherry picked", certainly not. As a very well trained GameSage, community feedback is something I take very seriously, and handle very delicately. Using my 13 years of experience in these matters, I have often found that "simple" QoL changes are much easier to win, versus large-scale "core" changes. However that does not mean that those are impossible, but definitely requires more finite scrutiny and a level of patience that is alien to most communities of 2019.

    The central market is a very good example of not "launching a campaign too early". It would have done us zero good to have started surveys or aggregating feedback as "emotions" are always running high and on edge whenever a large core component of the game is released. Thusly, we chose instead, at release, to focus on reporting bugs and nuances (both minor and major) so that the market was functioning smoothly. Later we planned to hold a survey to weight the opinion of the community on that content once the emotions died down and players had proper time and chance to experience the content and formulate "proper" and "level headed" opinions.

    With that having been said, no matter what the idea is, or how great it may sound, or how many of us approve of it or like it, it will always be up to Pearl Abyss to decide what is right for Black Desert.
     
    Whitrix likes this.
  3. oR-Bishop

    oR-Bishop Sunspot Valkyrie 62 NA

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    Thanks for your candor and the time spent writing out this response. It still doesn't sit well with me that PA fixes misspelled dialogue or outfit clipping while parts of the game remain unplayable. I expected you were fighting the battles needing fought, not picking them.

    After initial review of suggestion system, I had hope that we'd finally have PA's ear in Kakao. I began writing out suggestions my guild members and I had been sitting on for months and years. I didn't anticipate that this system included a gauntlet of filters. I will stop wasting my time.
     
  4. Quoi...lity Control

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    Do these poll questions include the comments from the discord that you DELETE? I haven't participated since I joined because I feel it is a futile channel and that YES things are cherry picked according to YOUR liking and that PA may decide in the end, but YOU decide what they do and don't see. So deny away, more than a river and all that rot.
     
  5. Lord_Xenon

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    I don't want to go into discussion whether or not it's true with the sole power/cherry pick, but some have to understand that 105757585876 ideas NEED to be filtered. If the filter can be controlled - a reason why an idea isn't forwarded or even not wanted written down - the original poster should be able to discuss it - except it's something already implemented as that's obvious. Like why some ideas are hold - like that thing is under revamp by the devs itself - or why some idea is rejected. I didn't look into the library, so I don't know if that's already implemented or not or how the 105857876 different ideas are categorized etc. but it feels really really bad(posted in one game over 10 ideas just to get said month later those were never looked at...) to not know why ideas are not making it further up(just sitting the 'decoy' named suggestions).
     
  6. Quoi...lity Control

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    I understand your point, but there are perfectly concise, well liked, ideas that people have posted that are almost immediately removed by Andaro, I don't pay it much attention because he doesn't give things attention as he claims. Fin.
     
  7. Andaro

    Andaro Archive
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    On the contrary, I have not removed any "ideas" that have been posted.
    Comments have been removed, *IF* you did not post them in the proper channel, and that is your (whomever posted) fault.
    If you are referring to the "forum feed bot", link removals from that channel are irrelevant, because that bot is designed to assist the librarians with keeping up with forum rss....not a "vote" channel. If you are referring to some messages that go "poof" instantly, that's because you (not you personally, but you in plural general form) used some dirty words the mod-bot didn't like, and it whacked you. Can't help ya there.

    In either case, if there are issues with moderations within the discord, you are welcome to bring them to my attention, or if you don't wish to speak to me, @Amarenda or @MeldamirieI are also available.

    So unless you are prepared to give some specific examples, don't go starting drama where there is none. Because don't think for one second this little yellow tag is going to stop me from calling someone out and dropping them a few pegs.

    Additionally, the Library, and Librarians, are not the "end all" of feedback. We are an *additional* avenue. The CMs & GMs still patrol forums, reddits, discords, streams, and SNS and collect feedback as they always have, and always will continue to do.
     
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  8. oR-Bishop

    oR-Bishop Sunspot Valkyrie 62 NA

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    I agree it's unfair to levy complaints without examples. I run a busy guild, but will try to find the time to bring forth those needed examples.

    Problem 1. The process to submit ideas seems convoluded. It took me a good deal of reading to get the gist of how to submit them. I only discovered the feedback discord recently. If it's possible to simplify or make clear these routes to submit ideas it would help both with submittals and participation in feeback.

    Problem 2. Ideas, once sumbitted either don't get any notification and/or aren't marked with their disposition. Some do show up on the library. Many don't. Filtering discussion aside, it would be good to have a tag given to ALL suggestions with their disposition, on the original post.
     
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  9. Andaro

    Andaro Archive
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    Right on, thank you for these examples.

    In problem 1, there is one form that is universal across all platforms -> the Live Form.
    Whether you submit your suggestion to it, or we submit your suggestion to it (which we do when we go spelunking through the forums/discords/reddits/etc), it will end up in "polling station" (a fancy word for the "dump sheet"). In this sheet all the submissions are there with serial numbers (I call them "FSN" for easy reference). So using the Live Form will ensure your suggestion is recorded and will eventually end up in a monthly poll. (unless its "one of those posts")(see below)



    In problem 2, we did have the "polling station" on "auto-bot post" at one time, but it became confusing to readers because they began react voting on those submissions, ...which was an irrelevant action, because unless it is a duplicate submission, or something straight out of left ball-field (my way of saying "obviously incorrect for BDO" such as "remove open world pvp completely", or something purely trolling), it will end up in the "reaction chamber" (which is just a reaction vote channel, to give us an idea how something might go in the big poll)(obviously something that gets nothing but bad reactions will probably be poll skipped, not necessarily, but probably)

    So for problem two, this is just because you currently don't see the polling station sheet.

    As a note, I will also add that players do not have to participate in our processes if they do not wish to, they are merely an additional avenue. If they so choose, they are more than welcome to continue as they always have, using the forum to do bidness.

    Here is a sample view of what the "dump sheet" (polling station) looks like

    upload_2019-3-22_17-5-55.png

    As you can see, every suggestion gets a serial number.
    Each suggestion is marked (checked) depending on where it is in our process.
    Send to Main Index -- it passed the monthly poll and gained enough public votes to be indexed.
    Sent to poll -- it passed the reaction chamber and is in the current months Popularity Poll
    Reaction Chamber -- it is currently in the reaction channel
    Duplicates -- ideas that have already been submitted before, are already indexed, etc.
    Downvotes -- ideas that did not do well in the polls or reactions
    Etc - ideas that obviously wont work due to whatever reason (maybe there is an update coming that renders that idea moot)(etc), or pure trolling posts (and yes there are quite a number of them)


    Now the question you are going to ask is "why are there white lines that appear to have been skipped". The answer to that is simple. Those submissions which are "trolling" or "duplicates" are eventually deleted, and their serial numbers recycled. (Ideas that "just wont work" however are not deleted....just the trolling and duplicates)

    We also don't catalogue Bugs or Exploits, so those get removed too.
    For example "fix red battlefield crash".....while obviously this is a big priority issue for the community, its very well known to the staff on multiple levels. As it is a Bug, it wouldn't do us any good to catalogue 50 submissions on that same subject which is already in the top most hands...so to speak. So that one would basically be deleted and its serial number recycled.

    There are currently 558 submissions in the polling station, and 360 suggestion in the Main Index. Of those 558, around half of them are duplicates waiting to be recycled. Additionally, I have approximately around 100 forum topics to go through and submit their contents to the live form since the suggestions forum has ballooned over the holidays.

    On a final note....the Live Form does not include a "who are you" field, for submitting suggestions....so none of the submissions have any names or ID attached to them. This was done to facilitate talking about the "Idea" and not the person submitting the idea, since I have noticed many times that some ideas people snarl at simply because of who posted them.


    TLDR - I honestly don't know why some think its complicated, when it really isn't. You have the Live-Form, and a Monthly Poll....that's it. All the jargon and dirty work is done by we volunteers in the back end.
     
    #109 Andaro, Mar 22, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2019
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  10. Guybrush_Threepwood

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    =====================
    SUGGESTION : CLIMBING
    =====================
    Give CLIMBING ability to our characters, most of the time when going somewhere the autopath guide takes a long route, if taking a straight line sometimes can get stuck by high terrain and has to off mount and climb a bit , but if the cliff is too high and there is water has to take a turn or even swim, it defeats the purpose going straight line for faster route, so give the character a climbing ability to combat height.

    A good example to this is climbing ability in Conan Exiles game, it's really a good ability to have, can just go anywhere straight line because height doesn't matter.



    Give us convenience like this to combat height or let horse run at full gallop when autopathing or add climbing pick in pearl shop. Manual travelling by horse is getting old.
     
  11. Andaro

    Andaro Archive
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    I believe there was mention of a a climbing life skill, but I cannot fathom how climbing would facilitate progression as other life skills do.

    If such a "skill" were to exist, I would think it should be better suited to a "utility skill tree", that is a skill tree of "utility skills" that dont typically have combat use.
     
  12. Guybrush_Threepwood

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    Yea agree to that, in Conan Exiles the climbing skill is an auto skill when jumping/falling onto a wall, it doesn't need to be learned in skill list and only costs stamina when triggered. I also have no idea how it will fit into life skills.

    -----

    ====================================
    SUGGESTION : PLATOON/SHIP ON MINIMAP
    ====================================
    Ship appears as a yellow ship icon on minimap and platoon members as green icons only when nearby, but not when a bit further. Please add platoon and ship pointers on minimap, when in party we can go to other party member using an arrow that appears on minimap. but platoon doesn't have that, ship should also appear on the minimap, either by anchoring it to the platoon or inviting ship in platoon, or whatever works.

    ====================================
    SUGGESTION : APPEARANCE SLOTS CHANGE
    ====================================
    - The current appearance slots should be changed into CLOTHES (for set bonus)
    - Add new appearance slots for appearance only without set bonus.
    I hate shark costume appearance so this would help the appearance
    This will also help if using movement +2 in one outfit, can still buy other outfits for the looks only while still have the benefit of movement +2 without needing to buy all movement +2 for all outfits, that's ridiculous. Imo movement +2 gem from outfit should be freely removable at anytime to use on other outfits. So only need many claws for making socket in other outfit and it's farmable.

    Also outfits and its benefits don't seem to be thought carefully, Once I have COCO CLOTHES with swimspeed and an added movement +2, I will never look back to my other outfits not even interested to buy new outfits. Unless we have new slots for cosmetic purpose.

    Why do devs make outfit compete with other outfit ? in all other games outfit is just cosmetic. Movement +2 also makes outfit that has it competes with other outfit that doesn't have it and I don't think many ppl will put movement +2 to ALL outfits. Imo it's a bad monetization practice.
     
    #112 Guybrush_Threepwood, Mar 24, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2019
  13. Guybrush_Threepwood

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    ============================
    SUGGESTION : GATHERING NODES
    ============================

    A picture tells a thousand words............
    [​IMG]


    This is an example of a game made by ONE person. Go to minutes 11:00 , and see that the tree got destroyed after being gathered. If ONE person can do it, WHY BDO a game with A TEAM of developers uses TEXT as its gathering node leaving no indicator whether a gathering node has or hasn't been gathered and the only way to know is to approach that tree hoping A TEXT with interaction menu will appear.
     
    #113 Guybrush_Threepwood, Mar 27, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2019
  14. [-=DSW=-]Andromeda

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    ============================
    SUGGESTION : STRENGTH ADJUSTMENT OF DARK RIFT BOSSES
    ============================

    To my understanding the dark rift bosses get weaker the longer you want to fight them, and a roman numeral I means the weakest, is that correct?

    So, a red nose (I) should be something that a level 56 character with 153/157/215 should be able to at least fight for a bit, éven if it would take some work to eventually kill it?

    ...dead in less than 30 seconds. Not funny.



    I seriously believe that the dark rift bosses are WAY too powerful, even more so seeing how you have to solo them.

    How are you supposed to fight one that is listed as "very hard" or worse? Grind until you have septum gear and weapons and are level 95 before you try?
     
  15. Guybrush_Threepwood

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    You are correct , roman I means the weakest. I had no problem killing all bosses using my lv 60 witch 170/174/240 before. (full PRI Asula acc)

    Even if you die many times there is no penalty to it and the boss HP will stay reduced letting you keep coming back chipping its hp bit by bit, so imo dark rift is already forgiving enough even for new character. You can comeback over and over or gear up.

    Dark Rift bosses are powerful but not impossible, on top of that the reward is really good. Imo Dark Rift is the only update that I like so far than grinding a few hours hoping an acc will drop, if you get lucky and get expensive acc like tungrad or ogre, you can sell it and use the silver for gearing up. It's worth it even if it's a bit hard at early attempts.

    BTW I don't know about tamer pet but as a witch I have a pet and for strong bosses like Ahib Griffon I let my pet to attack the boss for a while before I engage, so the pet will tank for me while I use my weakest attack on the boss later on.
     
    #115 Guybrush_Threepwood, Mar 31, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2019
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  16. [-=DSW=-]Andromeda

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    ...how long does it take to get from 56 to 60 when you actually have a day job and other distractions... a year? I mean it took me ... 15 months to get three of my 7 characters to 56...
     
  17. Guybrush_Threepwood

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    I started playing on Christmas last year, took me 4 days to reach 56, and only just recently reached 61 (took more or less 3 months).

    Actually leveling until 61 is easy if you have the time to grind, I have a lot of free time so I can grind for 6h a day if I want to, from 60 to 61 grinding 6h a day = 10%/day grinding at Gahaz main spot, but I took my time, at first I grinded 4 days in a row then I got burnt out and taking a break from grinding, so from 40% to 50% took me maybe 2 weeks from questing/dailies only/using practice dummy, got maybe 1% per 3h, Then I continued grinding for 5 days to 61.

    Below 61 is much easier. I remember when I was lv 59, I was still aiming for 300 CP so I didn't do anything but dailies, even by doing daily quests only, I got 3% exp per day from cumulative dailies in Heidel, Calpheon City & Calpheon Outskirt, and Florin, if I wanted more I went to Valencia. Even without Valencia playing just about 1h a day can give you 3% exp, but that's lv 59 to 60. So even if you don't have much time to play/grind, can just do dailies or grind the free daily 1h buff.

    Lv 56 is much much easier, I grinded at Helm till 58 iirc. I don't like grinding too much and easily bored, so I mostly only used the daily exp buff grinding for only 1 hour/day after doing daily quests for CP, and only continued grinding if I felt like I wanted to.

    I only play 1 character.
     
  18. _Kae_

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    Added a suggestion for a Premium Character Customization option to the game. Basically an option where you can pay for new / better customization options for your character.

    Examples are like.. More hair styles, Body Sliders to make a fat character, New faces (especially for witch), More tattoos, etc
     
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  19. Narktember

    Narktember Narktember DarkKnight 61 NA

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    how long does it take for suggestions to be added to the discord, I still haven't seen any that I submitted through the live form
    @Andaro help
     
    #119 Narktember, Apr 5, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2019
  20. oR-Bishop

    oR-Bishop Sunspot Valkyrie 62 NA

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    I've posted some as well. I'm watching the library to see if they are updated, and keeping an eye out for when April poll comes out

    If a suggestion was posed (even poorly) by someone else, and considered a duplicate for that reason, there's no reason that can't be noted on the forum post. The disposition of all suggestions should be tagged.

    Since my forum suggestions don't ever seem to make it to the poll, I started adding them to the live form to see if that works.

    The suggestion system seems to just be coming into it's stride now. I didn't see any formal system to process suggestions prior to 6 months ago. With that in mind, I think older suggestions ought to be automatically resubmitted. It's very likely they didn't get the proper attention and visibility for consideration.

    All this is, of course, mute if all of my ideas are black listed for some reason.
     
    #120 oR-Bishop, Apr 5, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2019
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