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Evasion.

Discussion in 'PvP' started by Mayuri, May 2, 2020.

  1. WhySoSeeryus

    WhySoSeeryus Wizard 63 EU

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    Well, evasion alone doesnt amount to much unless backed by dr as well. Try it yourself. See how much investment and stat sacrifice it takes to make a *really* tanky evasion build.
     
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  2. Mayuri

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    That's the point and the issue, evasion and dr do not exclude each other, you're going to have an insane amount of DR by the time you got evasion high enough to be effective.
     
  3. WhySoSeeryus

    WhySoSeeryus Wizard 63 EU

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    Oh.. u can stack evasion way before ... problem is u will get deleted by anything passing through.

    Same amount of eva later, coupled with dr... and suddenly u become tanky.

    And in very very rare casses and only specific classes - it becomes borderline broken. But thats more of an issue with specific selfbuffs, passives etc.
     
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  4. Mayuri

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    You can, but that's not as effective like you already said, the "issue" is that by the time you're PEN C9 it doesn't matter if you went for evasion gear, because you're going to get the 20% DR bracket anyway.
     
  5. WhySoSeeryus

    WhySoSeeryus Wizard 63 EU

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    its cute that you think pen c9 is REALLY tanky. coz its not(compared to*). and that guy* from the opening video is way above c9. backed by additional eva accessories. and im not talking tet ones.



    edit: yes, they overdid it with caphrased gear bonuses. c20 pen is like having hex gear or so.
     
    #145 WhySoSeeryus, May 14, 2020
    Last edited: May 14, 2020
  6. Preslavv

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    Mayuri, you are playing from release (as you said) and your trial has better gear then your main - in terms of acc (as you said) ?? Sorry, but what were you doing all these years? And yet, and yet, you dare to complain that you cannot kill full eva ninja ? I, I dont have words... Maybe spend less hours on your trial and start to play your main, in those years you could have way much better gear now and could kill that ninja maybe... It seems you are very skilled (no sracasm), and you can deal with almost anyone in rbf with your trial and once in a life time you met som godlike geared ninja who you cannot kill and suddenly you want to nerf eva, dp and whatsoever ? And you are completely ingnoring others arguments, who have better gear then you, and obviously know what fights on high gears look like, and constantly repeating yourself over and over...
    So, maybe go play that others mmos you like if that one ninja is causing you such nightmares... or stop complaing already, bdo is like it is.
     
  7. Mayuri

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    No, my character is cute, what I think is that once you reach pen c9 you're going to have enough DR even with evasion gear.

    Then, as I already said before, giving this game mechanics you can still combo "high" dr as long as you can hit, that's when eveasion (rng) comes into play, because missing even a part of the skill might make the difference.

    You're Implying I don't know how fights "look" at end game gear when there are lots of ways to see/test that, anyway, I'm not ignoring other people "arguments", as I already stated before, my opinion (which is: skill should always be > compared to gear, less difference between soft cap and end game brackets) is completely different and that's ok.

    Some people want gear to matter more than skill on this game, they want to be completely immune because of the time they spent grinding (at least against soft cap people), I don't agree with that, but, I can't do much to change it either, even because Kakao/Pearl Abyss monetization is based around that concept.

    The only thing causing me nightmares is the staff meeting I will have to attend tomorrow, jokes aside, whenever in RBF I find people that I can't hit because of evasion I simply ignore them and go for other targets.

    As for the complaining part, I simply wanted to share my opinion about a game mechanic, I thought that's what forums were for? If the answer to everything is "if you don't like it, quit playing" then why even have a forum section at all?

    About my gear, I spent most of my time duelling/pvping instead of grinding, then got tired at the relase of pen gear and left to focus on Blade and Soul, that's why my main gear is not really the best (but I'm trying to catch up, slowly, I mean, RBF gives some money, right? right?).
     
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  8. Vortexii

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    That's not really accurate. You want to say it's the players ability, yet ignore the fact that classes are completely different in 1v1 potential. The 0 DP is also just an illustration of how little gear score is needed. Having 300 or less DP will generally be 1 combo'd by everyone and still allow for minimal SA/Block.
     
  9. Mayuri

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    Meanwhile it's true that you will never have a perfect 1v1 balance in mmorpgs because of different classes, having an advantage/disadvantage because of your class but still being able to win when you land your cc first (or outplay your opponent) is very different from being unable to do anything at all just because your enemy is wearing a specific armor enhanced "x" times.
     
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  10. Vortexii

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    Poor game design has led to Ninja Vs Guardian though. A class that can literally infinite teleport like a sorc Iframing and a turtle class. That's why in the Witch forums it was argued to simply have the double teleport as the only means to compete.

    Old issues like Lingering SA where completely broken for non grab classes. No real counter has ever been provided to Grab, other than classes that need it the least like Ninja.

    Look at the recent changes also. Witch PVP damage is being significantly reduced while it's been bottom tier 1v1 for years. This can only be justified by Siege play, but from a design stand point it's terrible.

    Look at just how terrible Pearl Abyss's decisions are also. Wizard gets double teleport, Witch does not. Why would any competent developer that understands the game do that? They wouldn't. Only an incompetent dev that has no idea how the game works, would do that because they don't comprehend what it does.

    If you are playing BDO for PVP you are truly wasting your time. There are far to many games that do a much better job.
     
    Mayuri likes this.
  11. Mayuri

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    Aaaand I completely agree with that.
     
  12. WhySoSeeryus

    WhySoSeeryus Wizard 63 EU

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    im already imagining the laughs of melee classes coming to ask fo duel for spot vs ranged. its gonna me more fair if we play paper rock scissors at this point.
     
  13. Vortexii

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    We could go back to Mystic release when they would ask a Witch for duel and get the response.....

    Ok, but you need to go AFK for the first 10 seconds of the fight.........

    Which was always replied to as................

    Sure, NP lol. Easy Win Still.


    I literally watched Strikers HEAL while being stunned locked in an long ultimate. A lightning storm of electricity and stun lock, at the end they had MORE HP then when it started.
    #balance

    Rounds of applause for Pearl Abyss developers. Job well done guys. Keep up the good work.
     
  14. Distaken

    Distaken Warrior 62 NA

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    Gonna be honest, I completely disagree. Ive fought a lot a lot a lot of siege players/ex siege players/extremely geared players and most of them SUCK. The reason most of them have gear is because rather than PvP they just grinded or lifeskilled until eventually they became super geared or after not being able to win at PvP through skill decided to invest their time/effort into gearing rather than skill progression. It is really so crazy how these endgame siege players are so so bad and so so gear reliant. Duel them on trial characters and they don't know what to do when they can't 1-2 shot you through SA. Braindead gearcarried siege players are probably the vast majority tbh iirc even Hands was talking about how most of them suck lmao. Ive fount that the best players are usually like 230-265AP where they can't just rely on numbers to carry them and have to outplay opponents to stand a chance of winning. Sadly it has become increasingly clear that people don't really care about skill in BDO and would rather have it be a numbers battle which makes me qonder why they dont just go play some tab target game shrug, id assume its because they feel like they are skilled playing BDO haha. And about trial characters I loved the idea of them so much until they removed the ignore resist on them and now players pretty much have a 1/3 chance to resist any CC so PvP on them is just yikes. Skill based PvP in BDO is unfortunately near nonexistant
     
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  15. Crimson_Scarlet

    Crimson_Scarlet Shai 60 NA

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    Funny you mention penc9 gear I happen to run hybrid 275/375 evasion build with 4.7k hp (680 base evasion +10 vila +15 food + 5% guild evasion buff + 5% skill add and 301 dr ) and eva adds and get deleted in 3-4 skills let alone running into a succ dk and that becomes 2 skills.

    I know tanky I use to run 480 dp witch months ago and was pretty hard to kill even in sieges . Pen gear keeps you alive only for the slightest bit longer and if you siege/node and blob warfare you will wipe with everyone else at that.

    Even in single fight and rbf full pen guildies as in pen weapon/armor/acc and caphras 11-17 still get deleted once ccd but that happens to everyone in high end pvp fights the same goes with dp shais getting shat on since they cant defend themselves running 800-900 evasion rag dolling untill dead and getting stomped.

    Its and rng stat sometimes skills will miss other times you recieve the full brunt of it and honesty if your going to complain about a stat try it yourself at the scenario your giving go on global make that gear and test it yourself cause believe me its far differnent from what you think its like for those running it unless your a guardian that is D:< then it is.
     
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  16. Mayuri

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    I'm not saying it's effective against end-game geared people, I'm saying it's too effective against mid-game geared people, as in, if they don't have enough accuracy they won't be able to hit you, therefore, one full combo which normally kills any DR builds will deal 0 damage (e.g: my video).

    Do you start to see the issue here? "useless" against people that have your same gear, too strong against less geared people.

    If your answer is going to be "then get more gear/accuracy (which is extremely expensive)" we're going back to the gear > skill topic and I'd rather avoid that, our opinion are way too different and we'll never agree with each other, since in my point of view gear/build difference shouldn't make you win by default (a little advantage is ok as long as it's not too over overwhelming).

    But BDO doesn't work like that, so, well, enjoy your gear, I guess?
     
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  17. Fearless V

    Fearless V Ranger 61 NA

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    If you truly believe P2W Gear to Win PvP is boring then you are playing the wrong sub genre of MMOs. Korean Grinders are infamous for being P2W cash grabs where the victor is simply the one with the higher gear score. I'll tell you what tho. That is not the case in Western MMOs like ESO or GW2. If you want a skill-ish based PvP encounter might I suggest you play those MMOs.


    This right here. I remember when I used to play. In BA I used to win a lot against my ex-guildies. Than they got very lucky with enhancing. Next thing you know they instantly started no-effort clap me. Got kicked from guild because my gearscore became outdated for them. Did this about 2 more times before I realized PvP in this game is nothing but gear carried combat. Went back to ESO and the PvP scene over there is like this.... .

    Needless to say I just couldn't find it in me to make a full return to RNG P2W Gear Carried PvP that BDO had. And since I came to BDO for the PvP and combat in the first place. BDO to me now is nothing more than a screenshot simulator.

    I am completely convinced that the only people who enjoy BDO's style of PvP are those need the gear crutch in PvP to win.
     
  18. Crimson_Scarlet

    Crimson_Scarlet Shai 60 NA

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    https://gfycat.com/thunderousenlightenedimperialeagle-warthunder

    rip gear.png My gear btw

    The guy who killed me had 284 ap (I have several clips like this Q-Q though mainly against rangers,sorcs,dks and guardians) however against a musa with 315 ap im able to SA trade damage and live as a reply to you comment about get more gear and stuff believe me Im not going to say get more it takes to much time like you said its expensive and people dont like that so its understandable.

    As well as for certain people who have a preference of being able to pvp from the get go with equalised gear and such like other games have I dont think that will happen its just the nature of this game and I did play gw2 ranked pvp for 6 years so I have an idea of what people are expressing.

    2017-09-12_185616824.jpg

    This was me back in 2017 when I started to pvp and Im only at the point of gear now as of a few months ago 3 years later (quite alot of people achieved this ,same with guildies this year who have also been playing around same time ), its **** and takes time well back then anyways whether you go rng route or buy route still takes ages

    Now as for the question do I believe more gear should increase your chances or winning then yes but by default no, I personally die alot mainly to specific classes most of the time as well as an aggresive playstyle that get me killed i get alot of kills but also die alot so its an even trade off.

    Also I regularly get killed by peoplee running full tet ap gear feels exactly the same as when I ran it since they can hit
    281 ap quite easily if your playing actively .Now back to the topic of evasion its preferable since dr you recieve the full dmg the whole time and people dont like that and assume that evasion is the be all end all stat which I personally do not think so since at times you will actually die quicker than someone running dr and others survive much longer.

    Dont forget that evasion has and still is considered a meme stat for years and only more recent months has it become more popular.
     
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  19. JSXShadow

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    I agree with this 1000000%. Accuracy/Evasion or any chance to avoid anything or miss anything is just absolutely unneccesary. They could just remove all evasion and accu and/or convert it into DP/AP respectively and the game would be MUCH better for it.

    Can anyone explain to me why those mechanics exist in the first place? I don't really know..they could also make just as much money by just selling more AP/Damage Reduction...
     
  20. Chaos Ronin

    Chaos Ronin RyunokoDynasty Mystic 61 NA

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    The combat in ESO looks like absolute dog ****. It's slow, ugly and the animations are so fricken bad. it literally looks like a 15 year old game. Each to their own but I personally think BDO combat (if I had never played either game) looks 1000x better than ESO.
     
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