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Exploitation of Afuaru's Guild Event - Resolution

Discussion in 'News & Announcements' started by GM Rhotaaz, Apr 15, 2020.

  1. CompZilla

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    Yep 1.1 pitiful punishment

    What I was getting at is how many over all exploited in EU

    22 to 1 ratio out of the 400 would be 4.54% exploits from EU which would be 18 cheaters running about with their ill gotten gains(this is ball park figure of course)

    The rippling effects to the economy and progression is far worse in NA
     
  2. LilithDragonFlower

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    Well i've not been banned yet even though my opinion is still that (Players shouldn't be banned) for developers mistakes.

    It wasn't an exploit either, it was deemed an exploit after the fact, and it took hours upon hours for them to even do such, when in reality the developers themselves allowed it to happen, likely an oversight as a human error, but still The Terms OF Use, Never said you couldn't make multiple accounts for whatever reason.

    Though it is true that.


    - They could have banned innocent players due to sharing the same IP from the same household.
    - They may have banned guild masters just for being a leader of a guild
    - They may have banned officers who kicked the exploiters from the guild after leaving maps in the bank, or leaders.

    Without knowing all the facts of (X) players banned I could not make a guess as of to the exact factors users were baneed for.


    How did users know it was an exploit though?
    Excluding the fact that a few users may have been aware of it being an exploit in a Korea version, were the developers also not aware the inform the community before hand anyways not to take part in it or risk being banned?

    - Kakao issued no warning until after
    - Streamers said it wasn't an exploit
    - The developers allowed every account to be created, and did not clairfy the (Terms OF Use) as making multiple accounts being illegal.


    If it was clearly an exploit, like falling through the map and immediately teleporting across the world for example, or having unlimited health glitch that obviously isn't part of the game i'd all be for punishments.

    Obviously the GM's can do anything they feel like doing but the fact of the matter is simple that they did not actually violate the Terms OF Use that is currently in place, which means that the company would have to legally justify the ban as (For no reason).

    They also did not roll-back every account that took part in this, and they should have.
     
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  3. Jey

    Jey Valkyrie 62 EU

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    You don't know what event exploit means.
    Don't worry there are people with criminal nature who thinks killing is ok.
    I say they are sick and they think they are not.

    there was already a precedent, and it was deemed as exploit.
    Kakao is just incompetent and didn't do their Homework.
    Then even more incompetent to deliver correct punishment.
     
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  4. Hondo_Lane

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    Well I'm going to once again disagree with you.. And I suppose your deduction of the situation is what the money grabbers at Kakao believe. I didnt create multiple accounts and put many things in the guild bank to unfairly progress my toon. I am however since Cashcow didn't ban those streamers/players being unfairly punished because I didn't exploit the system

    The minimum I would be satisfied with is any streamer that said they talked with the Dev's and doing this was legit, should be permanently banned. Those people flat out Lied their behinds off. They had done none of that and just told people go ahead cheat.

    Those streamers where basically saying they represented the Developer and cheating was legit.

    And finally if you can't agree with that then maybe you are one of those mentioned previously
     
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  5. Boink

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    Because making 2-5 billion silver an hour is enough to make me think twice before approaching it. In fact if I was doing the maps I might consider bailing out the first 20 - 30 minutes into it. Something isn't right. But then again finding out how bad they handled this exploit I should of exploited. I should of joined a guild and exploited and get that billion silver loan.

    It's like finding a ton of cash just by the road and you are just picking it up and you have no intention on bringing it to the authorities. Then the feds start knocking on your door. You can't feign ignorance and say well it's just in a road, how is that stealing? Right?
     
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  6. VurkWogs

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    Pssh. Logical thinking. That has no place here.
     
  7. Stealthe

    Stealthe SteaIthe Wizard 62 NA

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    Just stopping by to see how many people are still upset that Timmy got a better toy than they did for Christmas
     
  8. CullanP

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    Not to mention they were literally in calls making light of the situation and wow, who knew they wouldn't actually be punished! It blows my mind there are people out there who actually think making hundreds of accounts and farming chests is ok and not classified as an event exploit and even more so thinking these people didn't see it as an exploit when there's literal proof they knew it was. They simply kept doing it because they knew there would be no valid punishment
     
  9. LilithDragonFlower

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    I feel it was unfair, but at the same times I feel rules are rules, the company made the mistake of allowing every account created to obtain the scrolls, and they also allowed people to create free trial accounts, without thinking, or updating the actual terms of use to reflect any type of exploit that may have been left in the game unintentionally by the developers.

    Would it be any different if a single person created 10 accounts and paid $29.99 for every copy of the game to get those scrolls?
     
  10. Phoenixxx75

    Phoenixxx75 Lahn 61 NA

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    That is a poor excuse for allowing so many people to get away with an extremely light punishment for using what was obviously an exploit. Yes pearl abyss and kakao need to shoulder some of the blame but that does not make the exploiters any less despicable. On the paying thirty dollars per account , if that was what the cost was to do this exploit you can be assured it would not have happened at all. The five dollar account may have seen a few but with the game being free it made it far more rampant. Either way the exploiters are still scum and should have been banned at least for a month as well as getting the negative balance. The punishment if you could even call it that was far too lenient.
     
  11. Stealthe

    Stealthe SteaIthe Wizard 62 NA

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    PA made the right choice,its like the law,no matter how many people scream someone is guilty the judge still requires evidence.In this case their has to evidence that proves to be 100% gauranteed the person knowingly was exploiting.That is very hard to prove being that exploiting consists nearly entirely of a grey area.

    Someone doing even a 100 scrolls doesnt prove they knew they was exploiting.They could have just came back to the game,joined a random clan that happened to be doing it with guildies saying "hey were doing a bunch of scrolls if you want to join,the silver per hour is great".Everyone who plays isnt super knowledge able forum gurus that always have the cutting edge latest information and knows the game inside and out.

    "They was making 2b silver per hour!"...Still proves nothing.Those numbers are meaningless to someone returning,new or just uneducated in the game.All they know is its alot more than they was making with their previous activity,not that its exploiting.

    "But I think they all did it on purpose!"..It doesnt matter what you think!.

    Accounts should have been rolled back though imo but who am I to be the judge,jury and executioner of other players accounts.
     
    #731 Stealthe, May 1, 2020
    Last edited: May 1, 2020
  12. LilithDragonFlower

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    Well a month ban at least isn't a perma ban, and I know at least a few people had an absolute idea it was a punish worthy exploit because they admitted to knowing about it on the (SEA servers.)

    And if you think about it a roll-back immediately after the fact on every account that took part in it is a huge punishment even if they didn't fully know because they spent likely over 6 hours doing the damn chests and end up with nothing in the end.

    It's just very upsetting to me the way PA handled the entire incident, like they perma banned 20 or so players, but all the rest got off with negative currency, in the event that some people out of the hundreds I saw exploiting across multiple servers actually did not know it was an exploit, they should have offered the option for such players to come forward, and opt-in for a roll-back of their characters.

    I mean imagine if your negative billions of in-game currency, those players will likely quit the game anyways in the long run, thus kakao is likely to actually lose money from the players who are so negative they can never regain that amount of silver especially if it was casual players taking part without knowing.

    Truth is that had no one from my ex.guild told me about the exploit, if anyone else would have invited me and been like (Lets run scrolls) I would have never have known about it in the first place, and would have stood there myself for hours farming the scrolls myself, and in the end would have likely quit the game too after being negativly impacted.

    Im all in favor of helping new people,
    and in the future, I really hope that the GM's hold some events that (Cannot be exploited) and reward people for being mentors giving rewards or items to new players similar to the TRI boss gear, and stuff, as well as rewards to the mentor it would be amazing to have a system that wouldn't be abused and bring a positive experience to the game.

    This is exactly what i've been saying as well, they should have immediately been able to.

    - Disable scrolls
    - Ask people to stop / inform the community in game that it was an exploit and would be punished / roll back
    - Apply roll-backs to all accounts that took part in it.

    Like I mentioned before if my ex.guild member had not have told me about it being an exploit, I likely would have been one taking part in it myself as I saw people recruiting others to run maps in chat, I just disagree entirely about it being an actual exploit, as to me it was cheating, and it was unfair, but not listed as an exploit by the developers on (EU / Kakao) servers until after the incident (From that point forward) it becomes an exploit and players doing it should be punished after being informed.

    I don't know about everyone, but every since the incident, I am feeling like "BDO" is dead to me as a game the way everything was handled, losing my best guild likely because I disagree with it being an exploit, and going there to see what was going on in person / game play even though I did not join a group or hit a chest, I feel like Kakao isn't capable of handling such incidents properly, thus I am actively looking for a new MMO...

    Possibly "Ashes OF Creation", Phantasy Star Online 2, or New World, No idea, I mean since the whole exploit thing and the way it was dealt with I just don't feel like playing BDO anymore, and seems to me like the population of AFK fishers has went down too.

    Maybe it's time for a new MMO I think.
     
  13. Arreyanne

    Arreyanne Lahn 59 NA

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    As an attorney I just wish I could find a jury with you two and ten others that believe ignorance of the law makes you innocent
     
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  14. Stealthe

    Stealthe SteaIthe Wizard 62 NA

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    It does when ignorance is what determines if your innocent.

    For being an attorney you haven't thought the situation through very thoroughly.
     
    #734 Stealthe, May 1, 2020
    Last edited: May 1, 2020
  15. Mana_Mafia

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    Bro you're talking about siege players. They're the most min/maxed, neurotic, egotistical and obsessive players in the entire game. The top 0.001%

    They knew exactly what they were ****ing doing, don't even try to pretend otherwise. You think they suddenly had a bunch of returning players? LOL
     
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  16. Debra

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    The sad part in all this is my guild had legit scrolls that were locked because of these yahoos that we never got to run, sure we were not the only ones.

    If you consider the limit to the max members in a guild, obviously having more than 100 players join is way past the intent of the event, the cheaters knew they were cheating, I applaud whoever ratted them out honestly.
     
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  17. Stealthe

    Stealthe SteaIthe Wizard 62 NA

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    Who's they?...Anyone in the game who participated in running a scroll?...Anyone in a Siege Guild that ran a scroll?...Anyone who participated in even 1 scroll who was in a guild that had 100 new players or more join?...So a guild with 99 new players joining is innocent but 100 is guilty?...players that only participated in 5 scrolls are innocent but 6 or more is banned?

    Do you see the discrepancy?..."They" is a vague term...to ban someone they need account names and to get account names they have to have a way to seperate innocent from guilty...and to do that they have to draw a l
    .the issue with a line drawn is that its hard to say someone who ran 10 scrolls is guilty while running 9 is completely innocent.

    " They're the most min/maxed, neurotic, egotistical and obsessive players in the entire game. The top 0.001% "
    Ahhh your hate shows through...so thats why you want them banned. You want them banned as an act of revenge,so you can finally 1 up them.
     
    #737 Stealthe, May 2, 2020
    Last edited: May 2, 2020
  18. Khay_man

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    I can't believe people are trying to defend those who exploited this, too few were banned, too many got away with it. Hopefully all those whining about not knowing it was an exploit will think before using future exploits. And the not knowing excuse is pure ********, we all know that. Anyone with half a brain knew this was not how the events were intended. And those threatening to quit the game over this? Good riddance, go cheat on another game. The game won't miss you one bit.
     
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  19. reconkangas

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    They, is referring to specific guilds that we can not name here.

    You can side step the situation all you want but your simply making excuses. Guilds such as some of the seige guilds(again can not name them) do not take in brand new accounts and very few returning so the chances of them getting a massive number of these is not going to happen try to explain this again.

    The fact is players were involved in a massive scale of making new accounts and using Trees to make groups of accounts to 60 to get full maps. Then invite and drop them after. Something on the scale as it was done involved most likely all of the active players in the guild to help.

    Everyone knew what was going on to the amount that it was done was ABSOLUTELY INTENTIONAL.

    12.1.4. Use of Exploits


    The User shall immediately report any process(es) or action(s) which, when performed in the Game, allow the User to play the Game in a way it was not intended to be played by game design. (In what aspect of this game was it intended to make new accounts for the purpose of getting maps? The event listed below)

    New and Returning Adventurers who reach a certain level can claim [Event] Restored Afuaru's Map via the Challenge tab (Y)!
    • You must be a "New" or a "Returning" adventurer to participate.
    • Available once per in-game family.
    • If you complete the level up challenge during the event period, you can claim your [Event]
    I can comprehend very well this is for new and returning players it is not for existing players to spam fresh accounts to toss them in the guild to make $$$ on them.

    In the end it included this Statement-
    • Any exploit or abnormal ways of entering in-game events may result in the restriction of your account.

    So please don't insult people's intelligence and try to play a slight of hand game. players that made accounts did it on the suggestion of others in the guild and now are trying to play word games to claim it was as intended.
    Unless you were trying to spoof your IP address thats logged for every account with each log in I am guessing these specific players did not think that far ahead.

    I don't think they went far enough and this couple with the certain streamers talking trash about it and arguing with there own subscribers just rubbed salt in the wound.

    It got out of hand people got caught pretty much everyone knew what they were doing. Take your punishment and move on because if it was me making decisions you all would be wearing dunce cap in game the amount of money in the hole would of been 100x the base amount of 1 trillion or whatever is more.
     
  20. Boink

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    They clearly stated the ones with ABNORMAL amount of scrolls. The ones that got a loan as a punishment while the 23 "organizers" was banned. While one of their PARTNERED streamer screaming it is not an exploit didn't get any punishment.

    If their progression was rolled back that's fine and ban the "organizers" but instead it was pretty much a loan. Is like robbing a bank, grab 100k, then going to a casino winning 1 million dollars. Kakao as the authorities decided just to penalize the bank robber by fining him +100k more in total of 200k, no prison time (suspension) or forfeiture of winnings.

    Since there was a lot of fail-stacks and accessory drops most of that 400+ got ahead of players who didn't exploit.
     

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