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Flagging system idea

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Akir, Oct 11, 2018.

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  1. Akir

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    Hello everyone, i am a fairly new player and as most of us do i read about BDO a fair ammount before/during my first week of play.
    Of all the things i read 3 come to mind as the most off-putting:
    1. Game is p2w;
    2. Game is dead;
    3. Game is filled with hackers.
    From my experience point number 1 is irrelevant. The game is what it is, and you can either benefit from time spent, real money spent or rng. Either you like it or you don't.
    Point number 2 turned out to be false.
    Point number 3 turned out to be true.

    I have not had encounters with hackers but i did find many bots (i am usually at gahaz).
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Now onto a possible solution to point 3:
    As an individual the most i can do to disturb a bot is to have a pve monster kill him. This may affect him trough crystal breaking and exp loss but still it's minimal and i spend karma for it (ironically).
    I have seen some mentions of a flagging system but couldn't find one in the forums so here is mine.

    Idea:A hotkey would be associated with the flag protocol. by pressing it would increase the flagging number of the target player by 1. This would create a "ranking" system, the higher your flag number the higher the chances of you being a bot/hacker. The final validation would always have to be from a GM/Game Anti-hack team.

    Possible problems:
    • What if people abused the system?Well, flagging would simply be a number, if you wanted to flag a regular player out of spite it's your decision but over a couple of days a bot/hacker would surely get more flags.
    • What if there are 2 players close by when i press the flag button? I suggest the flag button tu be a fairly wide AOE around you. when you press the button it should list the players around you(close by) and you would then manually choose the player you believe to be botting/hacking.
    • What if the bot is using camo? Indeed this is troublesome, the obvious response would be to ignore camo but then the system could be abused to mimic a flare. In line with the previous point i suggest the camo players appeared as camo class.
    For example a listing would be:
    family name, Character name - [CLICKABLE FLAG BUTTON]
    Macarroni, Johny - [CLICKABLE FLAG BUTTON]
    Destroyer, 2fast4u - [CLICKABLE FLAG BUTTON]
    Camoflaged ninja - [CLICKABLE FLAG BUTTON]
    Camoflaged striker - [CLICKABLE FLAG BUTTON]

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    This sums up my idea, at the end of the day this would at least provide the anti-hack team with a list of possible suspects, may they want to use it or not.
    Thank you all for your time and for the sake of improving the game please respond with your other possible suggestions/ways to improve this one.
     
  2. The reckon

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    Or... now hear me out, they could just let them keep hacking/botting to add to the statistics of players online to get more investor money.
     
    Shenzaar and Akir like this.
  3. Rayin

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    Yeah that's what i always thought too, since the number of accounts banned is abysmall compared to who uses cheat/hacks/composed macro.
    I had 3 friends fish-botting, one was banned with the first banwaves, rest can still log in their respective accounts even if one of these just log in for attendance rewards and has stopped renewing the bot.

    If they caught all the users of a specific bot brand, it's fair to assume that after the first banwave and the consequential impact that it had on that forcing to shut down its service, they are not far from having the other brand of bots banned. Although it's been a while since they did anything in that direction, so my idea like yours is that they take their time because anyway are accounts that figure out as "Online" and are there to boost their statistics that are so proud of to show at every corner, be the E3, be another kind of exhibition.

    Anyway, going back to the main topic we have an in-game report system that has never been activated, but i get that yours is different.
    If they'd make it, they should follow more rules:

    - Level 50+ are eligible to use that mechanic, to prevent mass reporting with free key accounts;
    - The account won't be automatically suspended, but it'll be investigated as soon as possible;
    - Other players cannot see if an account has been flagged or not to prevent people from mass flagging because they see that someone did and feel compelled to do the same for the sake of it;
    - Flagging from your in-game account should leave a link in your chat that is possible to click in order to open a browser page where you're logged in the support section instantly, have the category already selected, the format compiled with your character name and region and a pre-selected message such as "Account suspected, possible bot-user or cheater" so that you won't waste time compiling it but can place screenshots or video footage straight, that's just optional to make the process smoother.
     
  4. Akir

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    I agree with your points. In my initial idea there is no possible way to suspend an account via player indication alone, the flagging system would create a "ranking system" to help the ani-hack team investigate suspect accounts with the player base aid.
    Regarding your opinions on leaving online players to boost stats... i agree with you, but it seems to be dangerously reckless. If they are not banning players to boost the stats and thus make the game seem more alive(which is good) they must so know that the bot/hacker issue it is widely known. just as widely as their lack of solutions.
     
  5. Andaro

    Andaro Archive
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    basically the concept you are suggesting an in-game report player function available to players, similar to how LoL had a report player function, with community tribunal

    I honestly can't say much on this other than to agree that there is much room for abuse of these systems. I hate hackers and cheaters as much as the next players but I also am wary of innocent players getting caught in the potential crossfire.

    Even if we had a "volunteer community police force" hand picked by the staff, there is too much room for abuse and potential mis-reports. Although, with proper training, guidance, mentoring, and ethically integral control, such "teams" can be a force of positive good. So it can go either way with those. Finding the right people for those positions is not an easy task by any means.

    The best advice I can offer people is to continue submitting reports when things happen. Even if "nothing happens", submit reports anyhow because eventually it will compound and catch up with someone.
     
  6. Rayin

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    Well it's not that hard to guess since when they do public interview are staged, when they present statistics in regard of online accounts connected within X timeframe they don't tell you - and can't in some cases - how many logged accounts are free guest pass, players that don't play actively since months but lifeskill waiting for impactful changes or are there for attendances, bot accounts, hacker/cheater accounts, RTM accounts run manually by professional individuals that do that to earn some money as "job", double accounts used to earn a free polar bear/hedgehog that will never be used again if not for trolling purposes and so on.

    You can even break into one of those public interviews and start to yell that 3kk of the current populations are cheaters, it wouldn't hurt them the slightest because they can prove that X amount of accounts are/were logged and can get away with "We are aware of the current presence of Hackers and Cheaters in this game and our integrity dictates that no exploitable or third party software that goes under our radars shall be left unpunished. In fact we have adopted a new counter measure to make Hacker/Cheaters job much harder than in past." basically the same kind of staged answers that they give us on forum and other platforms such as social media.

    In fact the number of accounts banned for me isn't even realistic and is no tinfoil-hat theory, since ban waves are shown as number and not publicly displayed name by name for a politic move. Game like WoW can and will tell you the names of banned accounts leaving aside personal informations, in Korea they will flag your ID so that for you it'll be much harder to bot and cheat since to subscribe to anything you need that and making a fake ID can be hard in some cases, but when it comes to PA & Kakao that are still Korean but adopt a more "Western" policy, everything is meant to protect your privacy & safety, showing opposite results.

    They know that this game is plagued by cheaters & hackers, that's why they take down actively Reddit posts as it's much more viewed than this forum and has a public resonance. One could argue that they do it as measure to prevent that others might be interested in using those cheats and ruin the collective game experience of BDO users even more, but when you show little to no care in regard of actively fighting RTM, hacking and cheating, then i assume it's more a measure meant to censor rather than a precaution to avoid that cheating may spread further.
    And since they know it, you'd expect them to contact whoever produced Xigncode and other anti-cheat tools, to fight it actively. You'd spend money to give a good product to your users if you'd be interested in that, but they are not, in fact the game is discounted pretty often reaching 5 euro, price wall that isn't there for sure as barrier to keep away any malicious user but to gain more money out of people that want really to play this game badly because their advertisement works great.

    Community does "Event" footages, they pay companies to spread their banners in every kind of site based on your preferences or not, the game has been released on Steam that is a popular platform so this alone gives to it an incredible visibility doesn't matter how bad is portrayed, they also actively promote it in conventions and such like the Gamescom, E3 and such and with some marketing trick such as applying some lens flares on the game & call it Remastered, they can overcome to any negative pubblicity and push whoever didn't play this game to pay those "honest" 5 euro for the game. And Hackers, Cheaters, RTM leeches thanks them warmly, since with the money generate through those they constantly sell accounts and get more than enough money to buy multiple copies of the game just in case one of theirs gets banned.

    It's all a business here, nothing weird, except that they don't even hide it anymore because that product is now successful and established world-wide, that's why they're not even tweaking it anymore. They must work on BDO for consoles, for mobile and probably have planned to release more games of the same kind for all those platforms.
     
  7. Akir

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    Replying to you and to any other who may think that the idea was for players to be able to pusnish players. it's not. the idea is for players to be able to flag botters/hackers for review. not for other players to review, but for Game masters, or whoever is in charge decides to put there. The idea is to make that job easier for them by highlighting suspicious accounts. If for example i force pvp and kill someone and he in turn decides to flag me for hacking i don't really mind. let the game masters check my account. even if a regular player is number one in "flags" if he is clean then he is clean. the list could also reflect total flags/flags since inspection. For example i could have been flagged 43 times and by then i got a GM inspection. afterwards my flag number would reset. What i want to make clear is that the final word must be from a GM, not a player. As you say, if they do decide to form a hand picked player force then so be it. but that is their call.
     
  8. Akir

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    You are right. but in the end this disease(hack/bot infestation) will hurt everyone. the players. the game. the company.
     
  9. Andaro

    Andaro Archive
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    right right, I understand the concept, I may not have worded my response appropriately....

    There is a "similar" function in the game, called "Report Spam" that was freely useable at the beginning of the game, but was quickly disabled, as I imagine was being used too frequently, but that's just a guess.
     
  10. Rayin

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    It doesn't, because they plan to keep this game up for 20 years with a minimum amount of manteinance. We're past the point where something must be actively done from their side or else this game will shutdown, they even released items that have swore that would never see the light in our version, but they told us that to keep us on a leash when the times weren't "ready" for their arrival.

    I'm not being an apocalyps preacher that speaks in LA streets saying that "the doomsday is near us", they built this game on purpose to run in background and made AFK progression a huge part of the progression itself, something that other games tried in a minor measure through offline dungeon expeditions to give you a sense of doing something even when you're not in game.

    And don't be discouraged by my words, i'm being as cinic as possible because i'm always ready to be amazed by Kakao & PA. I suggested and would suggest lots of stuff too, but this doesn't mean that criticism and analyzing that current situations (that is pretty negative) can't be done.
     
  11. Akir

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    I am sad to hear all that. i am new to the game so i am on the wonder phase. going on my second month now. i do foresee trouble ahead and that at least prevents me from spending real money in the game. Which will probably mean less QoL and me getting tired of the game faster. but i will cross that bridge when i get there. for now i just thought i would try to help. It is fun to grab bots in Shadow of gahaz face and let them die to her. it's like a sacrifice to ensure better loot from her afterwards :D
     
  12. Akir

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    I have also been to harsh. i am also firmly against player "tribunal" as it always ends up in innocent people getting unfair trials
     

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