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For the valks still around

Discussion in 'Valkyrie' started by Netreiam, Feb 24, 2020.

  1. ViktoryiaV

    ViktoryiaV Valkyrie 62

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    Losing cc on celestial spear would be horrible, the lack of SA doesn't have to be an issue since you can significantly speed up the animation with counter or from preawake sideroll, for example, or if the complaint is getting interrupted crit buffing in a combo>off sharp light or promptness. It's one of our fastest reacting ccs. How many other ccs that match its range, does (an awakening) valk have? Succession and awakening, please be careful to distinguish them in this thread, I don't believe blanket changes to the "class" will affect the two subchoices equally.

    If I -time- celestial spear well, instead of apeing, I can win a range cc trade, stop people advancing, catch people in their animation gaps that others haven't noticed or save a friend in trouble out of reach of allies, I may even use smite for the same purpose if spear is on CD. These are all valuable contributions in the role of valk (the all rounder) and tbh it's this feeling of being generally useful that has always helped me enjoy the class along the way. If I were just another mule bursting players as so many other classes can, where is the accomplishment or challenge? And in a group fight setting, there's usually going to be someone I didn't notice or account for, they're equally as likely to just cc me in protected skill animation gaps or unprotected dps. At least with cc options, I could deal with those players I did account for, before such an outcome.

    I consider the most pressing issue with celestial spear to be its cc type, bound, since it's frequently resisted by crystal carried trash. In the case of standard gear, villa, and food equips, or recognising when opponents have certain buffs active, at least these are factors which anyone would be aware of to play around. But it's ridiculously easy to build high levels of kd/bound resist especially, and short of memorising individual players and their build variations.....

    If I could steal an idea from succession kit to "buff" awakening, I would want the counter>JoL cancel. Since the AoE is easily directed, it would be a potent protected cc. However as a low dp player, I'd favour it remaining a FG instead of super armour, from the perspective of group fights, but also for the utility of another quick reactionary block like divine slam, jc, c swap, and purificatione can be. They all have situational uses. Unfortunately the input delay of trying to use JoL from quickslot, and the initial windup animation which can't be cancelled with lmb, makes it comparatively too clunky to have desire using it for this purpose.

    Of course there would be the separate issue of the FG capacity scaling off weak preawake block values, and it's a longer animation than the other FG, so an additional remedy would be to give it damage scaling equivalent to the output of succession (since succession ap formula for mainhand damage is different to awakening) so it trades more significantly on any non cc-ed targets, else equalise the block values. The latter would benefit shield chase if it too remains a FG for an awakened valk.
     
    #21 ViktoryiaV, Feb 29, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 29, 2020
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  2. Legacina

    Legacina Valkyrie 63 EU

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    using the cancels to cancel the spear animation sounds like way to much effort. for like 0.1 second's of faster animation time tbf... where is that a sifnigicant increase in speed? and anyway both of those cancels are aswell, unprotected.

    thats why you get the rabam spear. more reliable cc. faster. a bit more dmg. should just get its cd reduced if they put sa on the normal one.
    or simply reduce the range on normal spear and make it a protected cc. honestly why do some people go so apeshit about it. how can this one single target cc be op. when there a dozens of classes that can rangespam Kd's from WAY further away, sometimes even protected. and actually have some aoe that can cc a group of people. not just.. one.. maybe 2 if they are hugging each other for some reason.
    this game is already dominated by classes with ranged skills. so our dumb spear would just be a water drop on a hot stone but help us immensly making melee stronger again.

    i cannot count the amounts of times. that prebuffing killed me. there are so many scenarios where you cannot use it just cause the cc spam is to big. and if you dont use it you might aswell just block do nothing and be the basic support ***** that is useless outside of some crappy heals and pa.
    im sorry im just used to be able to do more than that. and thats why i also go for risky stuff like prebuffing and bsr terra if its somehow possible in a fight. but usually its a nogo.

    whats so unfair to have SA on a skill that is literally the most important part of the whole skill tree? no other class has to prebuff the same way. they can sure. does it make them do 80% less dmg if they dont do it? no its optional for them. never do i say ''ah damn. i forgot to use my 20% Att speed + 20 AP buff on my guardian couldve killed the guy half a second faster''
    its completly different for valk.
    i dont mind having to. but i absolutely hate how its such a deathtrap. and the buff doesnt even last 10 seconds like most other buffs.
    ever tried to ult just 1 second later after using spear? cause the buff will run out before the ult hits. thats how tight the duration is.

    Ofc it can be nice as range cc sometimes. but that doesnt outweight its importance as a prebuff for almost every other skill. and you still have shift lmb to heal your mate if he gets cc'd. if he still dies in 1 skill he maybe should consider getting more dp. no matter the class.

    there should not be a single gap between the SA rotation of valk if you do it right. to bad all the cd's besides Hasti are way to long for how bad they are.
    on other classes you can just rotate 4 skills and be permanently in uninerupted SA. or at least use protected skills a couple times per fight. while you probably will never use Shift Rmb twice.
    the only way i get cc'd out of SA is at the start of the first skill i use in the rotation cause desync.

    SA's that linger and smoothly transition into the next usually have no gap. at least i never encountered it, just dont press any wrong buttons that make you do anything else than the next skill.
     
    #22 Legacina, Feb 29, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 29, 2020
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  3. ViktoryiaV

    ViktoryiaV Valkyrie 62

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    I don't know how to break down replies into the smaller textboxes, so please excuse a paragraph in response to some of the points. I think you are seasoned player, and I respect your opinions.

    1.Regarding cancels to speed up spear animation, I can understand some people would view it as unfair effort/difficulty to achieve something simple or basically to prepare for combos, whereas others enjoy this kind of input heavier play. IMO the speed increase is indeed that significant, I'd call spear almost instant if I cancel it properly, the standing tall motion is faster, and I can skip right to the second spear drop (if ultimate off CD). It's so fast I catch people in the start of their SA animations or as I was mentioning range cc trade, things like w+f from witch (range float) or DOD from sorc, or hell, mae/musa stub arrow, even delighted blast from kuno before they go into another skill (if you consider that ranged). Since I mentioned a cancel with counter, I appreciate that one in particular since counter itself flows nicely from a few skills, e.g shield chase or also iframe roll. The cancels are unprotected, but the range and speed/timing makes up for it, at least for the aspect of it being a cc. Since there's no degree to which you can land a cc, you either do or don't, every bit of additional speed can make the difference.

    2.I do have rabam spear, I'm not sure how it's a more reliable cc though, since it's also a bound. It is fast, but I don't think faster than spear. The damage is pretty nice as a back attack or finisher in a combo. I still use it as a catch cc if spear is on CD, which it may be because I already used it to cc or slow someone or was comboing.

    3.It's not that I think SA on celestial spear or smite is really all that hypocritical in the current state of the game, and that having it wouldn't make my game easier overall, it's more if I had to choose between cc or SA, I'd choose the cc. I've read some earlier comments on this and similar threads and some people have suggested add sa/remove cc, and I don't think we could expect to keep both these properties on the skill. If we were to get one of the two with SA, then I'd suggest smite, because it has the higher CD, and would be a buff to protected damage. And certainly, since celestial spear is a bound and not a knockdown, people even have the luxury of emergency escape. But a range cc on an otherwise predominantly melee kit, it's just more versatile gameplay.

    4.I use shift lmb as a heal for people when possible, but there's also a chance I'll have it on CD because I either used it as a reactionary FG, used it to dp debuff people/activate my skill add ons, range DPS. I'm glad valks are able to offer heals to people as something of a role, just not the only thing I'd want to do.

    5.I don't siege currently, and not nodewar for a while, I RBF daily, but that's I suppose a slightly different setting where I do have the freedom to position a little more flexibly/pursue my own objectives or do what I think I need to do in x situation, which is how I may address a cc spam fest or make use of the landscape and other players. Smaller side fights and skirmishes do occur in siege and node wars though. I've certainly been cc-ed out of spear as I was readying to combo and it's frustrating, but my point more is, if I didn't get cc-ed out of spear, then I may get cc-ed out of super armour animations, or outright melted through them or burst FG anyway, since especially if it's a "cc spam", then it's surely the kind of situation where some aoe dps is inevitable. So generally I'm on the move, I think my playstyle has become more aggressive cc/flank or peel support rather than laying down DPS in a death blob or trying to frontline as I once thought valk was supposed to do. I also can't really sit in block in such situations and wait for an opportunity. I tried it because I was curious how long I could actually do it for, 2.5 seconds or 1-2 big skills. So if I'm going to die trying either because there's risks for both options, may as well have some fun and go bladestyle, but you know what that's like :). Differences in opinion on class role I think is what causes most divide on people's opinions of what's best/fair for valk, and also what ap/dp or equipment stats should be the representative to balance around?

    6.I know we have somewhat of a protection rotation, and I know we have lingering super armour, which I make use of sometimes. I also use hasti for mobility or super armour trading>blitz if I can land a cc. Enslar mainly as an iframe, directionally confuse/bait, disengage. At 305dp there's not many situations I can use verdict as an on the spot protection and not get oneshot, I have most success using it purely for last ditch DPS combining it with z buff and vaccuum. And sure, at times I've used the heal for a quick super armour. I mention getting cc-ed in super armour, not between super armours, and it's always at the start of the first SA animation, I think like you experience? I'm a high ping player and it happens often enough, but everyone deals with desync to varying extents. I assume there are actually gaps there (Gaps exist at different times within the animations of various skills and I look for those to catch players out in to return the favour). I have room to improve on planning ahead if I think I could get cc-ed during a combo though, it's mainly adjusting which skills I'd use (depending on positioning, especially if head on, I found I'm less often cc-ed in a FG than a super armour) or how I might disengage. I have a lot to improve on, tbh...

    I briefly tried succession when it arrived and I had the impression Enslar (the takeoff) was more responsive to input/ a faster animation phase, it could be because I wasn't having to use it off quickslot as I do currently if in preawake. Sure we have sidesteps for iframes, but for Enslar to function better as another iframe or a more reliable disengage, a similar response time/animation speed (or a keybind option for preawake aside from after cele spear) copied to awake might be nice since the current animation goes gap>super armour>iframe.
     
    #23 ViktoryiaV, Feb 29, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 29, 2020
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  4. Legacina

    Legacina Valkyrie 63 EU

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    yea ofc there are lots of different opinons. thats why id say if we wanna ''spam'' them with feedback we should send in something that most can agree on.
    like the spear thing for example. i understad both sides. like why some want the cc, some want the sa. but i simply dont get it why it would be to strong if it would have both. we only have 1 protected cc. which is hot garbage. technically it would be a good skill to use. but the range is just so useless. + resetting cd....
    i always feel like rabam spear is more reliable. to use as a cc. there shouldnt be a difference but yea. just my imagination maybe.

    Valk has so much counterplay.. it can get really hard to stay protected when you also have to dodge grabs. cause our mobilty is just........
    other classes are harder to cc, harder to grab. harder to outtrade.
    and in my opinion she has a tad bit to much counterplay which is why i wouldnt mind getting some meaningfull buffs.
    Guardian also has decent counterplay. but is still way less vulnerable to alot of things that valk is.
    Guardians are getting countered by grabs and slows normal cc's are harder to get on her since she can protect herself so well.
    Valk is weak against that and way more.

    you should only get cc'd at the start of SAs yea. i mean i got cc'd in the middle of the ult animation before.. multiple times... but thats just valk things...
    about the getting cc'd less in FG than SA. its one thing i noticed ages ago at karanda.
    when Karanda was about to attack. FG would instantly respond and block the cc. while SA with the same timing would be ignored and get me cc'd
    maybe FG gets recognized faster by the server.. no idea. i mean in pvp its a bit different again but maybe not all to different?

    my point is valk is way to vulnerable to cc. which i simply dont get why. shes a full melee class with little ranged option. so why on earth is her protection that bad.

    anyway. id like to hear your opinion on what should get buffed. if you even think she needs one. cause there are people that think shes fine which she isnt. not by alot but there are definitely some tweaks needed.

    just gimme 5-10 changes you would like to see. that you would think would maker her better.
    not huge ass overhauls of skills tho. keep it simple so even PA understands it

    the changes i would want are so that she can manouver through a fight safer. and do more than just heal people. enhance her combat. make her an actual wall that cant just get knocked over by a breeze. some ****ing ninja with his ass gobble knive dances inbetween 10 people and doesnt get scratched and kills 4 in the process. but her big ass shield is just for show and is actually just made out of paper and tinfoil
     
    #24 Legacina, Feb 29, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 29, 2020
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  5. Muhaha

    Muhaha Valkyrie 62 NA

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    The Rant
    Am I the only one who calls bull **** for sidestep to be an iframe? Like it does seem like it can negate grabs, sometimes.. But If I'm getting constantly CC'd/damaged through it, I kinda call bs on it being iframe. Like if you've ever fought a full evasion meme where it feels like you almost can't CC or DMG them. Imo, it feels more like that, a super high evasion skill. (which, if it is, it'll probably get better with the upcoming 100% acc nerf?? we'll see..)​

    And then Enslar's 'iframe' is a joke, pretty sure its just an excuse saying that she changes positions, so if she changes spots you can't keep damaging where she once was. ~Been desync'd/CC'd out of the air several times, where she should've disappeared from the screen into the 'iframe' and took dmg as if it were SA only.
    Happened several times. So... I don't believe Valk has any iframes, true full or even a partial iframe.

    I do agree with Vik, Cel Spear shouldn't lose any CC.

    My opinion change wise
    How I think they could go about it, while trying to keep in line the concept that they may wanna leave valk somewhat shitty and ****ed with FG movement n such since she has dmg and support abilities..​

    If anything, they could probably remove FG from C swap, add SA to Promptness. Remove the stiffness from promptness, leave the dlc+prompt float, change CD to 3s for promptness link the float to only DLC or only promptness rather than both DLC and Promptness.
    Add FG or SA to Ferit, leave the stiffness, remove the Float. (leave fluxum/ferit flow, unprotected with the KD)
    Attack/Casting spd debuff on Verdict.
    Iframe on the start up of Enslar going up but SA going down. (also apply to succession, 12s skill cd, so it still wouldn't be much compared to Warrior's 2s iframe)

    Other than this, imo they'd need to rework some of pre-awakening skills, like how Vik mentioned how JoL could be useful if it was actually changed to work somewhat similar to succession. (only issues i could see people complaining about is Counter focing JoL instead of going into Shield Throw) If they did the same with Divine Power and probably changed/fixed some other skills, like removing the wind up on Shining Dash, I'd bet it'd help a hell of a lot.
    Like FFS, we still have Flying Kick and Charge Slash even after they removed running by forcing Shield Chase. Her preawakening is pretty outdated, which is some shitty developing right there. -.-"

    Why I think it could help.
    Why I think these changes could help, seems like they want to force awakening into a more supportive role while still able to do dmg.​

    SA or FG on ferit will allow you to get evasion debuffs off, promptness float will help keep the CC so to say.
    SA on promptness may help with echo walk protection, help transition back into awakening, making pre buffing easier, and no random stiffness to interrupt combos.
    Attack speed/casting debuff on Verdict since its animation locked and got a pretty high CD.

    So it can actually help her in being more supportive while actually utilizing her kit, kd/bound debuff on hasti, evasion debuff on ferit, dp debuff on purificatione, slow on cel spear, and attack/cast debuff on Verdict. (Verdict one sounds kinda useless for now, but mix it into the upcoming 'buffs', so it works on the flow, then it'd be better.) Plus if you get grabbed out of Verdict, they'd have a slow on them, so possibly increasing survivability.
    And have an actual working iframe to somewhat dodge grabs/negate a chunk of dmg.

    So to put it bluntly, she'd get an extra debuff, 2 if they reworked divine power, be able to actually get evasion debuff off in battle, SA float with promptness or dlc cd, SA or FG stiffness from Ferit, easier transitions with SA on promptness, an actual working partial iframe, and be a bad ass support class.

    Things to take into consideration
    They've **** on this class over and over, to the point where shes only gotten small buffs to somewhat compensate for when she was destroyed as a class. They could have properly balanced her, but instead did small changes here and there, over the past few years. They have been hypocrits when it comes to protections on skills, like the SA nerf on cel spear, and such. I think we just have to accept they can't actually balance the Valkyrie class. She needs to lean towards something while being ****ed somewhere else, unlike some other classes.
    My suggestions, will keep the same FG movement, aside from the first promptness echo walk will probably keep the same unprotected issues as well. Other than that, seems kinda give/take while being focused on her support skills and utilizing her kit. So.. hopefully its got some good suggestions in there to help the class. :}-~`
     
    #25 Muhaha, Feb 29, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2020
  6. Legacina

    Legacina Valkyrie 63 EU

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    just wanna reply to ''the rant''. who ever said that the sidestep is in any kind of form iframe? must be a true dreamer.
    neither pre awa nor awa does
    the only times i use the awa one is for a few grabs and valk ults. its more kind of a desync iframe. not a real iframe.

    my 10 buffs id like to see would be:

    1) SA or at least FG on Spear.
    2) Remove stiffen from promptness, put SA on it but only off cd and give it a 2-3 sec cd.
    3) No staminacost for promptness off cd. or at least remove the one from the lmb strike cause it just doesnt make sense.
    4) No staminacost off cd for Dlc
    5) FG on Counter but remove the Space part of it so you can instead swap back into awak.
    6) Remove the cd resetting mechanic on all the skills.
    7) SA on Divine Punishment.
    8) Reduce Shift Rmb cd by at least 10-15 seconds. and flow by 5-10.
    9) Make awakening counter lockable
    10) buff. the. block. both pre awak and awak

    i wanted to write down some other things like for example that they should give us FG on every dlc but only SA+FG off cd.

    so why i think these changes would help. gonna put a * on a few cause id like to add an idea to it.

    1)* I dont have to repeat myself anymore. (actually got an idea what they could do if they would remove the cc)

    2) i can live with not having protection on spear. its mostly in the transition (promptness) that you get cc'd. so having SA back there would be
    way more important than spear. also the stiff is absolutely useless. noone would care if they would lose that

    3)4) to finally put an end to the meme of valk being a wheelchair. this is honestly more to buff PvE at this point. in PvP i often dont have that many problems but thats mainly cause i can run 3k stamina still happens that i do run out. most people run around with 2k-2.5k which is a big difference
    tho im not sure if this could overbuff echowalk. never used it so cant really tell. but i can say for the old one this would be so good. it would be at least 2-4 more full dash combos or more across 3k stamina.
    if it would be to strong for echo walk. simply increase SP cost instead of stamina.

    5) its a damn counter... but it cant be used as a ''counter'' cause it has no protection. the only thing you counter is yourself. so thats why fg on that skill would be great. and noone would bat an eye over the space skill it has.. its useless.

    6) no explanation needed here. i dont get it why its a thing in the first place.

    7) just to give her some tool actually do more in a fight than heal and suck. a good mass cc with a relatively low cd.

    8)* I do think its a great skill but the cd is way to high for what it does. it could easily be 10 seconds cd and not be op. you generally dont use it to combo cause its to slow. its just a large scale skill so you can dish out some dmg while being protected. i also would like the idea that it has some sort of debuff.

    9) screw that skill. ****s up some commands which is really annoying thats why being able to lock it would be nice.

    10) Just make it the actually best block already... its getting pathetic how other classes that dont even us a shield have stronger ones..

    what would all these changes do

    1) making her awfull prebuff less of a burden since it has protection.
    2) give her some skills to counter classes that faceroll over us by just spaming quick cc's that often dont even have protection. but cannot be countered cause we dont have anything good to do it
    3) give her a bit more dmg for largescale with reduced cd's. that way you can also do something pretty much all the time not just every 30 seconds.
    4) making her harder to cc.
    5) No wheelchair memes.
    6) enhance her overall combat ability.
    7) making her a bit less exploitable when youre new or not that good on valk. because of all the gaps she has.

    to the ideas i had. a bonus which i just find would be cool to have.

    1)* If they would remove the cc from spear and put SA on it. make it flow into JoL. (give it the same range and same aoe radius as spear was but only in combination with spear).
    this way its either a quick prebuff. or a midrange cc. JoL is 15 seconds so it cannot be used as a cc that often also it keeps you in place and still has its fairly long animation. but you have both options. and neither would be stronger than simply having SA and Bound on spear.

    8)* Since Shift rmb usually is a grabtrap because it keeps you in place for so long. what they could do is make it flow into F in the 2nd part of the skill. without the F start animation. basically giving it an escape if you see someone grabhungry running towards you.
    also make it have shockwaves. something similar to Guardian Shift Q. cause that helps so much vs all the iframe spaming classes like sorc and ninja. cause its guaranteed to hit them between some of their gaps at least a few times. and by adding speed debuffs they get ****ed even further. and with lower cd it could be used way more often to counter them. and we need every counter we can get... its dumb how they have to nerf all the classes instead of just giving some classes options to counter them.
    ofc some classe slike ninja deserve the nerfbat but some would be fine if they had some classes that could **** em over.

    Another idea for shift Rmb. would be giving it a Push effect in pvp. similar to S+F but reversed. but then they should keep it at 27 sec cd cause this could be really strong. or make it so you can combo it with S+F either choose dmg. or push.

    as the one true shield class they could make her frontguard have a wider angle. just tweaking it by a few ° would help. especially with the fg dashes.

    Another idea i had in a different thread was. change shining dash.
    make it a pure dash skill with 0 collision.
    Iframe.
    reduce cd to 15-20 seconds.
    give it the distance of rightous charge maybe bit more.
    make it so it looks like you disappear for a second before reapearing. could make it so you can actually see the effects if you have them turned on.
    this could fix our awfull disengage. its similar to guardian. without her S+F she wouldnt be able to get out.

    make the E buff spring a toggle skill that consumes stamina. only with ebuff it costs nothing

    ofc there is alot more and alot of skills in pre awak and awak could need some rework. but that just to much to ask. id rather have a working class first.

    nothing aside of reducing cd would buff her dmg. all these changes would simply make harder to catch and cc. which is a huge problem for her currently. shes way easier to cc than probably any other melee class in the game.
    you move = get cc'd in fg or no protection. you block = get grabed. and if you wanna avoid grabs and dash away you just get cc'd behind
    i wouldnt mind not getting all the protected cc's as long as her general gameplay gets more solid
     
    #26 Legacina, Mar 1, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2020
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  7. Muhaha

    Muhaha Valkyrie 62 NA

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    I've seen it tossed around in Valk discord that sidestep is an 'iframe'.

    Some solid suggestions,
    With DLC, could see it going back to mana.
    Promptness at best I could see them doing something like 100 stamina off cd, 50 stamina while its cooling down. With no stamina on promptness, people would cry about Echo walk movement speed, seen em cry before saying "shes is as faster than a musa". -.-
    FG or SA on counter, idk if i could see them do this; especially if they changed shield throw to work like succession with the sidestep and just link divine/jol to counter. Like if they put SA on divine power and left jol with FG, they'd probably leave Counter defenseless like succession.
    8, I could see them dropping the verdict's flow to 12s to match enslar for upcoming buffs and dropping verdicts cd to 15-20s or so.

    I like the conecpt of SA on Divine, if they are trying to force her into a dmg/support role-ish.. imo JoL and Divine Power would be hella good to have just to help catch those filthy iframers ganking your backline. Cause with how much ranged dmg there is, seems like shes really touch and go frontline wise. So to be able to fully support the backline would awesome. Only way I couldn't see them doing this, is so succ doesn't lose it's appeal. Other than that, seems pretty fair.
    ^
    Just to toss some feedback. :D
     
    #27 Muhaha, Mar 1, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2020
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  8. Netreiam

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    Wasn't Eva changed to not affect CC? On sidestep, I would never count it as a proper I-frame but the fact is that it is *possible* to dodge grabs with it, so it does have I-frame on it. That said, it's only really possible to do consistently at very low ping (around sub 20) and even then you are more likely to get dsynced because it's so short and moves you so little that you basically end the i-frame portion still in grab range and get hit by tail end of the grab animation. Not to mention that if someone uses any other skill you are 100% ****ed. Meanwhile, ever other class uses their I frame movement skill and doesn't have to deal with needing stupid low ping or getting CCed by literally everything just for trying to read a grab.

    I would imagine that for the flow it would be instant because she already has her sword in the air for spear animation, all she would have to do is grab it with her other hand and she would already be at the end of the charging animation for JoL. Also the base AoE for JoL is probably the same as Celestial spear anyway so I increasing the AoE of the normal version would be necessary for there to be a distinction.

    You and Muhaha have a really interesting set of changes to Verdict.

    I don't really think enslar would flow that well into it or that it would even be necessary to have it there just because we can now use enslar to trigger the flow for damage, so using the base version won't be as necessary and can be saved for better situations.

    A push back effect would be cool, but I feel the radius on verdict isn't large enough to stop most people from being to hit you with their "melee" skills anyway. It would be good against grabs though.

    What I REALLY like though is the idea of a debuff/buff on it. Personally I think there are already too many AoE slows, it would definitely be a very good buff, but I think maybe going for a team buff would be more thematically fitting (since it looks like she's purifying/infusing the ground with holy energy) and more impactful overall. Global speed would be the obvious choice, although I feel it steps on witchard's toes and we already have way more overlap with them with support skills than I would like. Some more unique ideas could be like a debuff purification and immunity buff or a special attack damage reduction buff (would heavily reduce damage of crit/down/back/ect. modifiers).


    I think the shield chases should just be I frame. A lot less hassle and it gives us the easy way of dodging grabs that every other class already has.

    Shining dash being an disengage would be very nice, although I think making it like a non collision SA attack with righteous charge distance would be be better since it is still our 200%. That way the 200% version could be as simple as increasing the damage and adding a few fancy speed lines.
     
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  9. ViktoryiaV

    ViktoryiaV Valkyrie 62

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    Aha, I slept for an entire day and then some..

    I'll use this reply as a placeholder. I have quite a few ideas I'd love to share, but we're also to expect an incoming patch perhaps with this maintenance, which I'm waiting on to confirm a few translation theories.

    Some of the suggestions from recent comments seem rather intriguing!
     
    #29 ViktoryiaV, Mar 2, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2020
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  10. Legacina

    Legacina Valkyrie 63 EU

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    Those changes are all quiet bad.
    Only the shift rmb flow after f is cool the rest wont do much
     
  11. ViktoryiaV

    ViktoryiaV Valkyrie 62

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    I forget most things that were in the patch, but I do recall something such as sidestep being faster after landing from enslar, I see that as being really good for baiting out grabs or being able to use enslar as an escape teleport (leaping onto distant players) more safely - particularly if low on hp, escaping from a ball, you could immediately dodge whatever aoe your teleport host might throw down. But I don't have a global lab account, so I don't know how much faster it can actually be.

    I think there was some mention of various mobility skills being able to chain more smoothly together? Always a blessing.

    The other line which might concern quite a few players was suggested to effectively translate as the removal of echo dash, at least as it is known in its present form. But I don't want to spread misinformation on this, merely reiterating one interpretation I read a while ago elsewhere. So some ideas I'd put forward would have to take this into account, compensation of new (fast, but not infinite) mobility solutions

    Also, with the incoming skill accuracy nerfs (50%), I'm unsure of how much damage purificatione will then do to the -average- geared player, let alone one with considerably more evasion stacked gear, and with various other buffs active. However on the other hand, enslar flowing more smoothly into verdict's flow is overall a buff to protected damage both because this is chaining into the higher damage portion of the skill, faster, with less gap in the protection window, and the base verdict skill presumably stays off CD to be used at another opportunity. In another sense this buffs our ability to rotate protected damage if hasti is on CD because it was used as a gap closer - and also provides the downsmash option.

    It at least seems as if the balance team do have a fair understanding of finer mechanical details of how valk plays.
     
    #31 ViktoryiaV, Mar 2, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2020
  12. Mjollnir

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    The sidestep, at least the pre-awk one is rumored to be a partial pve iframe since forever, the invulnerability part - if it even exists - is just for a split fraction of it, I've always considered it more like a small bug. Can it save us from grabs ? Sometimes yes, cuz it may cause desync.

    Awk sidestep: I don't really think it's a partial iframe, I got cced more or less during all of its (way too long and slow) animation, maybe it's just due to my ping, but even if it was a real iframe, I would consider it all, but reliable.

    My suggestions, as I've already stated, are small, and focus around shield blocking,
    1. do they want us to be stationary ? I may gladly accept it, but the block MUST resist (so better scaling, being it with DP, HP, pearls used or hours online).
    2. blocking and expecially back-blocking, should be a bit more reactive (there's some kind of latency when blocking, and sometimes animation cancelling isn't enough).
    3. block must be solid, game physic shouldn't allow ppl (or damage) to pass through the shield and back hit (but well, this is more a rant, cuz collision in BDO was,is and probably will forever be, bad.

    On the CS debate, CC or SA: I would prefer it to be SA, not a particular reason for this, probably just (bad) habit of tossing it at the wrong time.

    (a final provocation: some succ qol changes would really really fit better into awk - shining dash coming to mind).
     
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  13. Legacina

    Legacina Valkyrie 63 EU

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    found it

    I just copied it 1:1 from where i posted it before. made clips to show the ''buffs''
    they are a disapointment. i dont think it will help with much.

    _____

    and my disapointment is even bigger than i thought.
    ok lets count the good thing from all that crap:

    Shift Rmb Flow after F feels pretty nice. even tho you have to use it right after. you cant linger F and use it later.

    and now to the stuff that they call buffs.
    i cheaped out on the editing. couldnt be arsed to Edit a whole video so i just clipped each thing

    1) i would have said this is a slight QOL buff. but since it legit changed nothing besides the player having to press 1 button less i wont.
    you can use a/d + lmb/rmb faster after F. but if you press Q together with a/d +lmb/rmb. its literally the same besides as said one less button
    it couldve been nice if you could instantly cancel out of the skill right after the landing. like as soon as you touch the ground you can dash. but... not the case
    https://streamable.com/a399r

    2) here comes the banger. the Ellions breath buff does give you a 5 second longer buff than before yes. but you cannot refresh it anymore if it runs low. while you could still do that on the current version.
    and dont get me started on 10% crit.
    the real buff here is that it applies to allies. we dont get **** from this i even see it as a nerf cause of us not being able to reset the MS buff
    https://streamable.com/4ugdd

    3) The hasti change is also meh.
    now you have to watch out that you dont press space or Shift +W to early when using hasti. otherwise you might do less dmg cause it skips the last hit's or leave you unprotected.
    i still do not understand the 2nd last one where youre able to use hasti quicker in a certain way. looking at the rest it cant be all that usefull either.
    https://streamable.com/ef8vg
     
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  14. Muhaha

    Muhaha Valkyrie 62 NA

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    Yeah, I'm pretty sure they changed the evasion stat to not be affected by CC. But if its an evasion skill, it may function differently. But again, idk for sure, just really doubt that its an 'iframe'. It doesn't even show in the skill tree, so the function of it is still questionable. Hell, it could just desync, and instantly move us server side before we fully move on our side.

    Also, again, I'm for Cel Spear keeping its CC. Valk needs to keep all of her ranged CCs, otherwise CCing people that can out kite you or run off and heal to 100% could be dumb af to deal with. Awakening, could use her movement to catch up, but regardless, that ranged CC can be what makes or breaks fights imo.

    And to add to some ideas for changes, they could make ult bliz stab into only blitz stab and replace the basic ***** blitz with something more useful. Whether its a buff, support skill, or even a passive like how succ has the 10% resist passive.
     
    #34 Muhaha, Mar 3, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2020
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  15. Legacina

    Legacina Valkyrie 63 EU

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    you can use hasti faster after DLC.
    you could cancel the start animation before aswell. so this change was kinda useless too. i guess it has one benefit cause in order to do the cancel you have to use 100 stamina to use lmb after DLC.
    we saved 100 stamina yaaaay thats totally gonna change the world

    so already 2 pretty much useless buffs cause you could do that before already
     
  16. Mjollnir

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    I have to agree, today's changes fall into the QoL/Nuisances category, nothing of the real issue was targeted, nothing gamechanging.
    To their support I will try the new flows in some RBF, probably will get me killed as yesterday ;)

    Sorry, I'm a bit salty today :D :D :D
     
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  17. Diarrheal

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    I cannot agree with removing bound on celestial spear/smite. I rather keep bound and not have SA. These skills are ESSENTIAL for group pvp supporting downed teammates from range imo. They are great cc's even though they are situational.
     
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  18. Diarrheal

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    Our ranged cc are celestial spear/smite imo. Shield throw is somewhat ranged as well. I incorporate these kills in pvp and they are useful cc's if used right. (I am awk valk)
     
  19. Legacina

    Legacina Valkyrie 63 EU

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    useless all of them besides Shift Rmb flow. which is basically just some extra dmg for F which has non
     
  20. Legacina

    Legacina Valkyrie 63 EU

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    They either make Promptness SA which would be the best. or Spear SA or at least FG ontop of the cc. its not like valk has insane cc capabilitys compared to other classes. spear is the only ''good'' cc which easily gets countered by resistance
     
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