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Gambling

Discussion in 'General Gameplay' started by MagicalTabletopGirls, May 21, 2020.

  1. Allan1985

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    not only there are hundreds of other methods of monetization, the biggest problem on this game is not that it is being monetized, rather its insane greed, its the red line between selling something to make tha game profitable and trying to scam your players, an easy example is functional clothes wich are not bound to the account but rather to the character, that is as scandalous as buying a tv and not being able to move it from your living room to your room because the company who made it doesnt allow you to, the sheer idea stinks of illegality, but they are exploiting a legal system that is not yet updated to prevent such abuses.
     
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  2. Boink

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    Lol In Belgium because of their laws and it wasn't acted on until 2018. Even the precedented law was of 1999. Clearly identifying it as an act of BETTING, not of VALUE.

    Not many countries have this EXACT law or the committee to create its interpretation (either progressive or conservative).

    This is U.S. current p2w, microtransaction bill that is still under review. https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/senate-bill/1629/text why would they make this if there is a law that should have made these lootboxes illegal in the first place. Because clearly the laws in my country don't apply to this specific monetization and there are no laws that target this. So it's perfectly legal.

    Gambling is addictive. I know I suffered it throughout my early adult. I'm in my 30s and now I can manage it perfectly.

    Entertainment is ok if you are just talking about games but when a kid is exposed to this type of environment. It's difficult for them to... stop. You ever heard of that 12-year-old kid that bought thousands of dollars of FIFA lootboxes using his parents credit card. Even adults are not immune to this. Ask one of the streamers to open their $ spent and you figure out.
     
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  3. Sadalsuud

    Sadalsuud Tamer 62 EU

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    Gaming and Betting act in Belgium is from 1999.
    What you linked is a research report from 2018. Its conclusion :

    In conclusion, we noticed that not only the game manufacturer and game platform but also the companies that grant licences such as the international football federation FIFA and Disney must urgently be confronted with the part they play in the operation of illegal
    gambling
    and the need to protect minors and vulnerable players.

    You stick to the definition in one country, I show you what happens in another country. You said that companies would not try to do something illegal, but you showed yourself that companies can make illegal things. Kakao is not better, they tried it, as much as they could, and made dozens of steps back when it had been confirmed that they crossed the lines.
    They did not discover that it was illegal in Belgium, they stopped when they have been indirectly threatened by the country itself.

    Interesting addition :
    The monitoring of the video game sector and the lack of effective regulations for games of
    chance is in stark contrast to the regulated gambling sector for adults.

    NO **** SHERLOCK !
    :D
    The lack of monitoring and effective regulations for games of chance is indeed the biggest problem. Hopefully changes are finally happening.

    We're going round and round here! Time to stop I guess.
     
  4. Boink

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    As in made illegal in 2018. It wasn't made illegal on it's introduction until a committee oversight and made it illegal using a 1999 law regarding Gambling and BETTING. If you are saying it's true all the businesses that conducted virtual % chance was conducting illegal activities and they were subject to sales tax paid to their government. How can they have that clear oversight? They just discovered it in 2018? WOW what a discovery.

    I don't think you understand how conformity of laws and how they work. If it was perfectly legal to own an automatic or car without seatbelts it doesn't make it illegal throughout it's operation until THAT DAY it's passed. Even if they made it illegal now they don't confiscate your automatic firearm or the car without seatbelts without probable cause. You can still use it if you can provide proof you bought the firearm when it was legal.

    Clearly ONLY BELGIUM SHERLOCK has this law regarding BETTING or else Kakao/PA won't be doing any business in NUMEROUS COUNTRIES not JUST ONE. Not just MURICA ok.

    The introduction of new set of bill clearly identifies the problem and why we can't "make" it illegal.

    If you going to certain hypocrisy of what's legal or illegal. Salt and sugar are one of the most addictive product in the world. What we going to make it illegal for every vendor to sell sugar-coated donuts because someone is suffering obesity or bad health. No.
     
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  5. MoonDance17

    MoonDance17 Lahn 61 NA

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    I agree that is good value for fun. What I don't agree with is the pay to win that this game offers. Any game that has a way to turn real money into game money is pay to win. If they removed pearl sales I would be happy and if they removed the costume melting I would be ecstatic.
     
  6. Khondo

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    I am sorry for what you went through and agree gambling can be an issue for all the family. But to consider a game like BDO to be the root cause of future gambling addicts is a stretch.

    Another way to look at it is, do you ban the use of cars to stop motor accident deaths? No you don't.
     
    #126 Khondo, Jun 8, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2020
  7. Boink

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    I didn't say it was a detriment to my lifestyle. The only part that really wreck and come to facets on reality is that I'm spending soo much time in the Casino floor and I need to be stopped. Either i'm too tired to do something else after the "grind" or not interested at all of any other activity. Winning was also a factor since I won a lot but if we look at winning percentage and losing I know a huge portion of those players would have not been fortunate and have a bad lifestyle due to gambling.

    Are you comparing teen early behavior development to cars that cause / or will cause an accident? Do you know that kids are easily influenced by adults and amongst their peers? How do you think Twitch becomes popular, because of games which have more minors in their viewership and who are easily influenced by adults?

    By the way, my addiction started early when I was flipping coins for pennies. Now I'm a shark in a poker table Imagine that right.
     
  8. Allan1985

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    no one is stating that BDO is the root, the root of this problem was clearly Electronic Arts as they are the company that first introduced loot boxes as a concept

    once again, its about proportionality, and yes they ban street races due to their potential to cause death, because they are the extreme expression of something as common as a car, extremes have never been good and never will.
     
  9. Sadalsuud

    Sadalsuud Tamer 62 EU

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    (Just to be clear, the "no **** Sherlock" was directed against the quote I made from the research report, not against your answer!)

    But I will keep on disagreeing though. The research concluded that it was illegal in light of the belgian gaming and betting act of 1999. There's no new law implied, simply a confirmation.

    And that's why we're talking about loopholes here, Belgium is an extreme example because its law was well made and ready to take virtual items into account, but others countries are on their way to do it too.
    UK is not that far of reaching the same conclusion because UK gambling laws define gambling as “playing a game of chance for a prize” where ‘prize’ means “money or money’s worth” (s.6(1) of the Gambling Act 2005), and where "money's worth" could be applied to virtual items or currencies, given the last discussions about it. If so, it would be a confirmation, not a new law.

    Companies are playing with limits, sometimes trespassing them, sometimes not, but I can't really agree on the fact that companies are always acting legally.
     
  10. yukishiro1

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    But you do ban drinking while driving, and manufacturers selling unsafe cars. And we also put up a system of laws and rules that people have to follow, for example lights and signs at intersections, speed limits, etc.

    I think you just refuted your own point without realizing it, mate.
     
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  11. Sadalsuud

    Sadalsuud Tamer 62 EU

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    BDO, like many other games, is using gambling mechanics. These mechanics come with a lot of danger, gambling addiction being one of them.

    If we consider that the one giving the mean is not the one responsible for its excessive use, then casinos should not even be regulated nor controlled at all. Yet they are.
     
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  12. Ben Phoenix

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    Do you ban the use of a knife to chop vegetables cause you could chop your fingers and bleed out? Do you ban the use of food cause you could choke? Do you ban the use of a pool cause you could drown? Do you ban life itself cause at some point you are gonna die, inevitably? I mean: what kind of silly comparison is that?

    [​IMG]

    Stay on topic please and explain why gambling in BDO can't be as addictive as gambling in a casino, for example? Same principle, it's gambling itself that can make you addicted, not the context.
     
    #132 Ben Phoenix, Jun 8, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2020
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  13. Vortexii

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    There is some legitimacy to the definition of "gambling" and what needs to be regulated. When you buy a pack of Baseball cards for example, you are essentially getting random cards of various values. (Replace Baseball with any type of card). The problem is this hasn't been classified as "gambling" in the same sense as a slot machine. The return of money and being able to increase your starting wealth is also problematic.

    However, the real point would be why gambling is regulated to begin with. It's due to the harm it can cause to the society. That same harm can definitely be applied to these gaming companies.
     
    #133 Vortexii, Jun 8, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2020
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  14. Lurea

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    In Belgium we band loot boxes as they are a form of gambling. I was sure all countries would fight against loot boxes. But seems we are the only one. Result, Only Belgium players can't buy these boxes. Great, they are gambling with real money after all. Bit of a shame they did'ent just stop making those boxes. But it's a start.

    BUT

    If there is a loot box that will costs silver (in-game money aka the box is free) It is also blocked. Because it is gambling? Even tho there is no real money spend on the box. BDO's way of saying "Don't mess with our gambling income". I don't get why more countries aren't fighting this loot box gambling nonsens. It really is destroying games (less so in BDO but look at EA)
     
  15. Ben Phoenix

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    Me neither.
     
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  16. Vortexii

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    It is NOT accurate to say the other countries are not fighting against this. You could say they have been unsuccessful in getting the legislation needed to prevent this, but they are pretty much all trying.

    There is a higher level issue at stake. Mankind's struggle for power and wealth. This often supersedes doing what is "right" and is the real core issue of why not that much has been done yet.
     
  17. Ben Phoenix

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    Pretty much all trying, I don't know honestly. I hope so at least.
     
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  18. Vortexii

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    The fight against the Tobacco companies took years in the United States. This was WHILE people where getting seriously ill and dying. Even then it took many many years to overcome the industry.

    Interesting Note: The Tobacco companies are doing better today than ever because they are now exploiting countries with far fewer regulations.
     
  19. Ashenvall

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    A real ambassador here
     
  20. Ashenvall

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    You are a beautiful person to teach people the way this world works
     
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