1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Gimme back the old skill window

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by LunaValentyn, Aug 19, 2020.

  1. MoonDance17

    MoonDance17 Lahn 61 NA

    Joined:
    May 3, 2016
    Messages:
    2,531
    Likes Received:
    2,215
    Yeah so no help to those like me that use a controller and hate the ui changes. Great for others though.
     
    LeMiau likes this.
  2. LeMiau

    LeMiau Tamer 63 NA

    Joined:
    May 16, 2018
    Messages:
    75
    Likes Received:
    91
    I was wondering about this too, why they kept derailing and ignoring that you just want an option to go back, not get rid of it for those that like the new menu. Either its hyper aggressive distraction methods or they just suck at reading comprehension. idk.



    I have rheumatoid arthritis in my hands and I still like the old one better; it made more sense to me and I liked it a lot more. I point this out because they mentioned how its easier for us apparently and I while I do not disagree for others, accessibility stuff is usually called 'accessibility options'- a toggle for those need/want it VS those who don't. That also flew over their heads. If you're going to virtue signal for people like us, make sure its warranted. If you read two or so comments above mine, even some of the controller people don't like it.



    I support and would also like an option to go back to the classic style menu.
     
  3. onaco

    onaco Musa 62 EU

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2017
    Messages:
    539
    Likes Received:
    1,384
    Agree, simple as that.
    They are changing this UI so much, and most of changes are useless. Some changes are better, but they get digged under all the things which are just wrose :/

    When I need to find a certain class skill, or just remind myself what certain skills do...I open google and search in the ''skill build calculator'' or however it's called. Yes, I'd rather open google and navigate easily there on the UI that actually made sense, then go through this new mess we have, where half of the things is just empty space. That speaks for itself.
     
  4. LunaValentyn

    Joined:
    May 3, 2017
    Messages:
    1,143
    Likes Received:
    494
    I was wondering the same thing tbh. It really does feel like they are fumbling though and they seem unable to comment on any of my accusations though(honestly horrible PR that they started interacting here at all if this was what they were going to do and then even worse because they are evading the questions we know they've seen now)

    Another thing I thought about with the old vs new menu is you still have to click the skill in the first place even if you use the arrow keys, since people still have to click the skill window in the tree, it's really not an upgrade at all even for disabled individuals. If anything the new skill window is the same system with extra steps since no one really scrolls through the different skill tiers that often and the old system just let you mouse over the whole window instead. Tbh if they hadn't put the arrow scroll on the new one, that would also be incredibly difficult for people as well so they shouldn't brag about something that should've just been a default. We should take basic accessibility for granted because it should be the norm.

    It's like a downgrade and they're using the disabled as an excuse for their behavior...which is patronizing and ableist.



    I would also like to draw attention to the lack of support for the ambassador's points when we actually talk about the real topic here. Idk, seems like people generally agree that having the old menu back as an option would be a nice feature. My only regret was not making this a poll.
     
    FairlyEnjoyable and MoonDance17 like this.
  5. MoonDance17

    MoonDance17 Lahn 61 NA

    Joined:
    May 3, 2016
    Messages:
    2,531
    Likes Received:
    2,215
    I doubt if the new skill ui is better for people with poor vision even though it is large, it is certainly not better for controller users and even a lot of keyboard and mouse users don't think it is easier either.
     
    LunaValentyn likes this.
  6. LunaValentyn

    Joined:
    May 3, 2017
    Messages:
    1,143
    Likes Received:
    494
    I'd say the skill description windows look about the same size tbh, I don't notice a difference between the old menu and the new one as far as ease of vision goes. I'd say most people probably use the skill icon to find what they're looking for over the title too which also seems about the same size. The search bar is a nice feature but it doesn't really have any room for typos either which is also an issue imo since most people know vaguely what they're looking for but might miss an apostrophe or something and then get no results.

    In my opinion the biggest thing they should adjust for the visually impaired would be to make the text quality as a whole scale with the screen though. I've had to screw around with a lot of settings just to make the quests and chat box legible. It's not very intuitive at all for something that should be a basic feature.
     
    MoonDance17 likes this.
  7. MoonDance17

    MoonDance17 Lahn 61 NA

    Joined:
    May 3, 2016
    Messages:
    2,531
    Likes Received:
    2,215
    That is a good observation. I have not played since a few days after the new skill ui was introduced. It was the last straw for me.
     
    LunaValentyn likes this.
  8. LunaValentyn

    Joined:
    May 3, 2017
    Messages:
    1,143
    Likes Received:
    494
    I still play because this game can be very peaceful and after work, it's a breath of fresh air to just sit back and do some life skills but I'd love to see it improved. I hope they'll actually listen to the community on this instead of just acting like children and ignoring the criticism because they can't handle it.

    This is largely the dev team's attitude towards the community
    [​IMG]
     
    FairlyEnjoyable and LeMiau like this.
  9. Andaro

    Ambassador

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2016
    Messages:
    8,616
    Likes Received:
    7,525
    Oh I never said that there wasn't support for it, nor am I using any pretense to justify. I was just simply informing you that they are not going to add such an option and support multiple UIs when the goal is to consolidate down to a single UI, and that your energy is better off spent suggesting tweaks to the new UI to make it more friendly.

    I certainly do however encourage you to voice yourselves in disdain of what you don't like, because who knows, maybe in the future they'll redesign the whole thing, which is more likely than have two separate UI's to support.

    My goal have never been to stifle anyone's opinion, but rather to advise you of what avenue you are most likely to have high success at. Since we have a fairly high track record of approved QOLs, we have learned what is most often successful versus what is not and part of my responsibility is to help lead you down a more successful path.

    For example, a tweak to the current UI, in my opinion, would be the arrow buttons on the skills. They're a bit tiny and could be a bit bigger for easier clicking.....

    The main difference , other than the obvious design, between the two menus, is that the new one is Docked, and not detachable.... And a good suggestion that might have a higher shot at approval would be to suggest making it undockable so that it is in a window much like the old one.

    The new UI is also more flexible and allows for additional skills in the future. If they had to maintain both, due to option, then they would have to update both which means more time in development which means more money and less time on other content.

    I dare say that at some point in the future, the old escape menu will probably be let go of as well, but that's just a hunch.
     
    #29 Andaro, Aug 23, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2020
  10. LunaValentyn

    Joined:
    May 3, 2017
    Messages:
    1,143
    Likes Received:
    494
    I feel like this is a very late response after you've already replied to other posts since the things that have been said have were posted. It feels like you're trying to put out a fire more than to actually help at this point.

    I've made several critiques of the new UI here though as well that can be pulled from what I've said. They also already support a 2ndary UI with the esc menu so I really don't see the difference and I promise you taking the original esc menu away would have massive backlash so that's not a good response to this comment.

    If these things you claim were your genuine intent, why wouldn't you start with this instead? You should learn to be more direct so people don't misconstrue your intent so heavily because as you can see, I'm not the only one who read it the way I did.



    I'll re-sum up my critiques of the current menu though because I've already had to repeat myself this many times, what's one more?

    C swap and the Succession Passive descriptions should be directly on the skill window with the rest of the passives, not hidden in the top tabs. Archer and Shai don't even have C swap listed because they don't have successions so they don't have the additional window pop up when switching between main and awakening/talent. Even on the classes who have the extra window pop up, it's like they've hidden those details in a place most players wouldn't think to check. The next thing would be to add A and D(as in wasd) scrolling to the skill window because that's far more intuitive with the nature of a game like this when it comes to scrolling(just disable that part while skill demo is turned off and also keep the arrows as an option).

    While I have your attention, the font in game should also scale better with screen size because the quality is dramatically lost at larger screen sizes to the point where it's not even legible anymore.

    And your point about the arrows needing to be larger was good but I don't think they would fit cleanly where they are right now if that was implemented, I think that adding one larger arrow key to the far left of the skill and another one to the far right like large button end caps would make more sense and look better.

    And lastly, the skill enhancement window is not clear enough you can only chose one of the 2 for each level, that needs to be clarified for new players who don't know so they don't make a mistake and get stuck with a skill they don't want. On that same train of thought, the new Shai talent window doesn't even specify you can only take one of the 4 flute buffs, that's also misleading and confusing to new players.

    I'm not sorry for my accusations either, I think that in the context, they were warranted. Your miscommunications are not our misdoing and multiple people read what you've said the same way I did. Please be more direct in the first place in the future to prevent such things from happening.

    since this is new since I last read your message, I'm making a new reply to it specifically as well.

    The old escape menu is the superior option, the new one is hideous. It's much harder to navigate, the icons being openly available on the old menu is much more intuitive as a whole. I don't care if it gets docked, I like it for the icon spread and format. Going through all those tabs to get to what I want in the new menu is a pain in the ass.

    Making the new menu detachable is also not my issue, I liked having skill trees more than just having single skill listings with dots on them. I also liked having all of the skills readily available instead of tucked away behind extra tabs as mentioned above.

    Besides, I've seen their spending already, instead of implementing features existing players asked for, they pumped out a mobile and console version with the money. I'd much prefer to see a 2nd UI supported than another platform added. As is a lot of the money is being put towards Red Desert and no one even asked for that.

    @Andaro I should apologize for going in on your so hard since you're just the messenger, I think the points still stand as a whole but I could've put it nicer. I'm sorry I was so harsh with you and your handling of this since I know it's not really your fault the devs make bad decisions. I've just reread it and I felt like this was necessary so I am sorry for my aggression in this situation. It's still extremely frustrating though and I make no promises this is the end of it but I'll try harder to remember you're the messenger and not the party I'm actually upset with going forwards if this thread continues.
     
    #30 LunaValentyn, Aug 23, 2020
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 23, 2020
  11. FairlyEnjoyable

    FairlyEnjoyable Lahn 62 NA

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2020
    Messages:
    482
    Likes Received:
    352
    I couldn't agree more with what you've stated here, @LunaValentyn. If this gets enough backlash and attention, the devs will have to listen. There is no other reason they can't leave in the option for the old skill window when the ESC menu has an option to swap between the old and new.
     
    MoonDance17 likes this.
  12. LunaValentyn

    Joined:
    May 3, 2017
    Messages:
    1,143
    Likes Received:
    494
    honestly I fear they'll remove the old esc menu option tbh because they can be a bit thoughtless though and they've proven themselves very bad at listening to the community in the past as well. I think the recent "listening" act was simply to save face but when it comes down to it, the devs have glass egos and have proven many times they can't handle criticism in the past.

    The ambassador even suggested that would be the case...which I genuinely hope it won't be. It's just like always though, they'd rather shoot themselves in the foot by pissing off the community and doing whatever the please because they aren't afraid of the competition because the mmo genre as a whole is dying and nothing has been able to compare when it comes to the niche this game fills.

    There are no upcoming MMOs that will actually give this game any competition, there probably won't be for a long time either. The niche is too hard to fill at this point and if anyone tries, it'll just be shot down as a bdo clone. I just hope the devs will care enough about the community as a whole to occasionally put our needs above their desires to slack off and do other projects and I hope the UI can be one of the things they will work with us on.

    Frankly all of the new UI is fairly poorly designed, too many tabs, too much clicking, it feels more like I'm organizing files than playing a game >.> I just want it to be simple and intuitive and I don't see why they don't agree.
     
    FairlyEnjoyable likes this.
  13. Ned Sheynji

    Ned Sheynji Sheynji 63 EU

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2016
    Messages:
    1,826
    Likes Received:
    1,460
    There is always gonna be a bunch of people who cant be fked to adapt to change. They pretend like they gave it time to make themself look better on the internet but the reality is more like they tried it for like 5 minutes at best and then gave up upon it because they have been too busy browsing their tiktoks.

    Granted the new Skill UI is bad. Like objectively bad. Its bugged. The previews sometimes freeze. The skill presets only work in safezones (Who the f*ck smoked what the f*ck to come up with that retarded limitation btw?). There is a couple of things that need to be critized and worked on to improve it. Improving on it by just allowing people to use the old UI is not the way.
     
  14. Joungf

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2015
    Messages:
    4,649
    Likes Received:
    5,144
    But just replacing it without a proper communication and a manual how to find x option now and how to use the new functions, what has been removed / is obsolete, what is new AND feedback of any bug and improvement is welcome ..... every player would expect that.
     
    FairlyEnjoyable likes this.
  15. LunaValentyn

    Joined:
    May 3, 2017
    Messages:
    1,143
    Likes Received:
    494
    Some of us have adapted to using it and still like the old one better as a whole though. I've brought up 2 new classes since it came out and put their skills together without incident.

    I'll admit I prefer the visual aesthetic of skill trees if that's what you want me to say but that's not a refusal to adapt as much as a personal taste preference.

    Do you have any actual reasons why it shouldn't be brought back as a 2nd option that haven't been addressed above or did you just come here to pretend to be better than everyone else?

    Those are all bugs but the game is full of bugs, in my opinion, the things you've mentioned are bugs I can work around which is why I didn't bother to mention them. Why are you using skill previews in the middle of the road anyways? Horse rides aren't that long.

    As long as things are hidden behind unnecessary tabs, I have a problem with it, that's my biggest issue with the new window and my biggest issue with the new esc menu. I know how it works, I just think it's stupid and visually unappealing. That's not even mentioning the lack of description about picking rabams and the fact that shai and archer are completely missing their C swap skill icon which new and returning players might appreciate having. I almost forgot shai flute skills are also missing the "only one at max rank" description as well which is actually not explained anywhere in game currently.

    I still believe that having the old esc menu and the old skill window as 2ndary options is a good idea and worth the additional time and money that the devs would have to put into it.
     
    #35 LunaValentyn, Aug 23, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2020
    FairlyEnjoyable likes this.
  16. sajdas

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2020
    Messages:
    778
    Likes Received:
    767
    and this sums up BDO in a nutshell
     
    FairlyEnjoyable and LunaValentyn like this.
  17. FairlyEnjoyable

    FairlyEnjoyable Lahn 62 NA

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2020
    Messages:
    482
    Likes Received:
    352
    I'm about to the point where I'd rather play nothing than this game, so I know how you feel.

    Edit: To clarify, I've been around since 2018, but I finally got fed up with changes being done in the game and decided to become vocal on the forums, so I made the account; hence, the early join date.
     
    #37 FairlyEnjoyable, Aug 24, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2020
  18. LunaValentyn

    Joined:
    May 3, 2017
    Messages:
    1,143
    Likes Received:
    494
    I've been around for ages, I joined the game itself the summer it launched as soon as classes ended since it released around finals for me. This was the first game forum I was a part of tbh and I've been through hell and back with this game. I can't even touch my original class anymore, too many bad memories, leaves a sour taste in my mouth every time. I started on sorc and I stuck with her through thick and thin, even now that she's good and that she's been good for a while, I can't get the bad taste out of my mouth from the full protection meta. I'm sort of at a loss for what class to even play anymore because I know sorc is good and I know I'm competent with her but every time I touch her...it just makes me feel this intense bitterness.

    I've played other games, I've gone outside, I've done a lot but at the end of the day I like the have a game I can just relax with and this one seems to fit that niche for me. I just really want to see better for this game specifically.
     
    FairlyEnjoyable likes this.
  19. Stalla

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2020
    Messages:
    3
    Likes Received:
    2
    I wholeheartedly agree with adding in the option to use the old skill window. The fundamental way it was structured in my opinion was better to understand, follow and use. For example, I can directly see how the next skill, how much points it costs and at what level it unlocks.

    The new one doesn't click with me, however, i do like that the effects of skills were added like super armor, forward guard, stun ect into smaller icons. Furthermore, why is there a succession tab when the skills are also directly added to the main window? I can kind of see it for someone playing succession but when you are in awakening it's just more icons piled up in that space. With the old menu i was able to open up the succ tab and see the whole skill set that was available, now i have to fumble around the main page to find what i'm looking for.

    In terms of improving any skill window that might be chosen for the furture... How about in the skill enchancement tab, since it's 2-3 skills they put in the skill add-ons so that it is not necessary for people to have to travel needlessly to the skill instructor to see it and would not have to retain that in their memory for months. Of course any changes would have to be made at the instructor as usual.
     
    LunaValentyn and FairlyEnjoyable like this.
  20. MisterJoy

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2016
    Messages:
    524
    Likes Received:
    520
    No, you do not, you just collect a big pool of ideas and match them with the stuff PA wanted to do anyways and create an artificial "they listen to us" farce. The feedback lib is more like something to pretend this, while it has close to none or none effect at all, they maybe get some ideas from it, to implement some QoL with a paywall on it.

    And if you find a match, you go all out like HEY LOOK this was implemented because of your feedback!

    The only "high track record" I see there are highly biased survey designs.
     
    LunaValentyn and FairlyEnjoyable like this.

Share This Page