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Give Wizard and Witch EVEN MORE!

Discussion in 'PvP' started by HavocGravity, Sep 9, 2020.

  1. Stealthe

    Stealthe SteaIthe Wizard 62 NA

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    I think every class is mostly a brainless class especially in large scale where any skill that isn't protect is useless because its suicide.
    And to make it worse skills dont seem to be balanced well.You would think if a skill offers no protection than its likely good in a different way but nope,we have skills that have way more protection than other while doing more damage and just outclassing other skills to the point of players only using a few skills.

    For instance I play awaken wiz and as nice as it is for them to keep buffing Cataclysm its too the point where its really our only useful skill now for short range damage...I mean Cataclysm was our only decent skill while aqua jail,bolide and Chilling wave are all awful in comparison but yet they buff Cataclysm even more instead of buffing the awful skills for some reason.
     
  2. reconkangas

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    witch still needs help TBH without the wiz grab and a few other kit items she is a lesser wiz with zero benefits in succession they don't scale the same. wiz is absolutely god tier broken but as i have said gear does matter as well as the players skill level. They are both way over tuned and with the damage increase of ad's they do a ton more damage than classes that dont have them. but again i dont see them fixing it.

    mystic broken? granted back after she was created pre CC balancing she was #1 in gvg,1v1 ect. post balance and 2 years of steady nerfs she has never recovered truly she is good at PVE,1v1 and some small scale thats it. she is not viable in large scale and siege. with mystic succession they gave her back some power and her original speed she lost through nerfs i played mystic for over 2 and a half years and was forced to succession as most were because it was stronger but i recently rerolled do to the "please wait a moment bug" that self CC's and has been there since they made succ. broken NAAH

    Valk thats a whole other issue, a valk that is sub 260 ap is nothing a valk with sub 330dp is nothing.. a succ valk with 260ap is still nothing now you put 280+ ap with 330-360 dp on a valk well then you got a beast on your hands if you learn how to play her.. is she broken depends if you have read previous post on other threads on my thoughts of PA and how they should fix it. as far as her utility she is def in the top self of GVG and 1v1 and does well in siege as rip or back line protection but broken again this is all based on gear because Valk without the GS is nothing at all.

    There is a difference between shouldn't complain about other classes and trying to fix there own classes. I have never advocated for nerfing classes, Maehwa and DK succession wise are in really good spots with the proper gear both classes are tremendously tough on the battlefield.

    But again this whole conversation has to be looked at from positions other than 254ap 301dp the over all average of players GS is much higher than 2 years ago it is not uncommon to find players avg. 260-300ap and 320-375dp the main issue here is a where do people fall in the avg? We have a lot of new players that came in from seasons thinking that there PEN tavula is king and they had the warm fuzzy blanket of care bear servers that they couldn't be flagged up on hell even in there season arsha it was only there top GS until they goto BA or reg server grind spots and get wrecked by a 600 GS player and are totally lost as to why..

    The premise that AP is king and DP is garbage has stuck since the beginning of this game and people streaming it laughing at players getting 1 shot or combo'd. Every class has a AP/DP threshold that they go from being hot garbage to god status ALL classes have this ability some have a much higher gear requirement than others. BUT all classes have the potential to be top tier, its just most leave lame excuses about there gear and about how trash there own classes are when they are playing a warrior with 275ap and 309 dp and cant understand why they get wrecked in the middle of a SA exchange with a valk that is 280ap but 340dp then want the valk nerfed because of it. THIS example is why i came in here and am saying and repeating what i have said before YOU CANT TUNE AND BALANCE TO EVERY BRACKET OF GAME PLAY. You literally have to pick a point and say OK this is the avg then increase stats based on that OVERALL avg. so those that are not picking up the pace on gear are left behind and getting destroyed by players that have made massive advances in GS.
    The trend keeps going higher and higher some classes will benefit from DP/DR like the valk,warrior some will benefit from evasion like the sorc,shai, mystic/striker others like ranger and archers are paper no mater what but each of these classes are affected differently with higher AP some plateau early like striker others like sorc/dk require 280+ just to start getting good.
    we can no longer continue this spiteful trend of killing off classes, we really need to ask to bring classes up to a better standard as well as a community to start collectively pushing PA/Kakao to start listening to NA/EU in regards to balancing i have heard some great ideas from people here as well as other platforms some of who are posting in this thread.
     
    #22 reconkangas, Sep 12, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2020
    Fateneko and IWalkAlone like this.
  3. easay9

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    I mean here is how I look at the casters as a class with a grab ( awakened ranger)

    They have to much kit in large scale and not enough in 1v1 if you dont count the thing that should not exist being succ wiz.

    what made wiz/witch awakening balanced as time went on was the fact they were standing still with a cast time, however what still made them to strong in my opinion was when they are able to warp in and instant cast on top of you with no cast time. then you have the issue of thier CC on top of those instant casts. the way casters like this should be balanced is cast times on everything with the only CC being that which is from distance when they are on top of you and can just knock you on your back with instant cast damage on top of it that is when they become to strong.

    succ wiz is all of whats wrong with awakening wiz/witch thrown into a broken new playstyle. in general successions should not exist in my opinion as all it did was create another thing to balance on top of what was already a balance nightmare.

    heres what I wil say regaurding the casters what keeps them balanced is that grabs hard counter thier cast times causing them to need good positioning and a team to do well but when you give them instant cast when you give them more mobility you break how they are balanced. I do not care that they cant 1v1 and actually this is fase for even awakening I have seen good 1v1 wiz/witch awakening 1v1 pretty well taking advantage of some preawakened kit to pull it off but expecting them to beat these iframe spamming assassins is just no and they should never have been buffed up to compete any more then they already did in the first place since they have great defensive super armors, healing, and PA already which is what made them strong even before in wars.

    succ wiz has no reason to exist!
     
  4. dobe

    dobe Lahn 60

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    I call any classes who can perma pressure for more than 2 min completely busted.You guys(bruisers)have no idea how it feel to have your plays completely gated by your stamina bar.All classes sharing the assassin traits got heavy nerf on their stamina while bruisers(warrior/gauntlet) get to go toe to toe with them without any ressource cost at all....And I call that BS.(awk)

    Anyway back to mystic,i can only speak about her on a trial standpoint and have only done RBF full of overgeared monkey as a mimic of largescale last year,because of the GS differences i didnt tried to combo but setting plays for others.What i can say is she is no where weak on her mecanics,
    • Protected movement,protected CC+protected damage+grab+low stam cost+personnal PA+grab juking+vaccum.
    • she is rough to navigate inside the pack of players(unlike striker),its better to enter from the outskirt and going into the pack as long as your mate clean what is CCed on your wake,whereas striker will jump directly on the middle of the pack and start wreaking havoc in the heart without assistance of other players.
    • Her protection coverage and linkage is top tier so you wont really expect to be CCed between skills(unless desync).
    • Her awk trade damage SA skills have a good range which can be abused to apply damage outside of reactionnary grabs range of most classes.
    • I wont speak about her bubbles and vaccum which is completely busted.
    • Sea burial is super strong VS a low health target,its either the target is damaged trying to avoid or he guard and is free for a protected grab attempt(on the target screen the grab attempt is transitionned seamlessly just few frame away(unreactable) after damage which end up being a 50/50 with proper positioning).
    • Best mass destruction variants(faster for CC plays).
    • Like his mate,SA carried for days.
    i didnt played her on 1v1 outside of grindspot low SP(nothing to discuss about).
    Without knowing her much on how she felt on live from 2018,but for 2019 "post fix" if people were salty playing her,before the succ bugs,i'll say they dont have any valid reason to be salty.Imo its a complete waste to not go full tank on her,and people expecting to deal damage with should play something else.
    My experiences on succ(on all classes) is so low of a samples its not even worth to start talking about,however for awakening her CC plays are completely trash(i'll rate 5/20,witchards have better CC game),she can be abused in so many ways that i always felt miserable for them when they fell on one of the maehwa trap without even abusing their fg movement(and those guys were crying for more protected movement and protected tera sancta.....tss amateurs....)
    And here we are again.You think valk is a monster with high gear but if your mechanic is trash at 200GS it will remain trash as 2000GS and then your are not kit carried but plain stat carried.If the valk can only kill me by overpowering my DP with tera sancta>lancia iustitia>revelation sanctus under vaccum then she is completely trash(and its not even a gameplay....)

    I can only talk about awk of both of them,witch is better at facing a grab classes without grab pen resist because of her stackable shield resist+block resist while wizard grab can only be used on a very limited conditions,outside those conditions it is more a liability than anything else.Also historically witch was better at damage trading than wizards but dont know if it changed.
     
    #24 dobe, Sep 12, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2020
  5. WhySoSeeryus

    WhySoSeeryus Wizard 64 EU

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    awaken staff and its high grapple weakness had sense when basically every one of its awaken spells was multihit protected cc and people actually had to time their approach to dispose of them at least a bit. now its just total disrespect running into them while they are animation locked once cata/voltaic is on cd as basically every other move is either punishable by bypassing fg or they get bruteforcemelted melted in their weak preawa SAs.
     
  6. reconkangas

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    Mystic awakening and succesion are two totally different play styles.
    Awakening has a much better kit spectrum but at a cost of damage.
    The main issue with mystic is to kill you have to combo period in awakening they have 1 skill that does majority of there damage while CC and that is perfect blow your pre awakening kit is were the damage starts after you get CC. But a majority of your high damage skills are not SA protected, sure they have a protected grab but they are a melee class. other than rising dragon that has a lingering, sea burial and dragons rip(suction) they have a 3 invincible dashes(have to be used back to back) 3 super armor dash and thats it.

    Succesion kit is more limited and losing suction is a pain fighting speed classes but has MUCH higher damage potential. And more protected skills while adding several avenues of 1 shot skills but some are not protected the combos are much faster but again "wait a moment" bug wrecks the kit.

    I never complained about the nerfs I thought they were heavy handed and did not take into account the dynamics of the class even though she has some range she is still only affective at close range. In my book she is not even on the same level as all the classes taking gear off mystic 280ap 350dp will make you a god in just about all other classes except shai and maybe dk.

    As far as valk goes I play succesion only I think her awakening is garbage if forced to play it i would re roll. Her succesion kit is very limited and really is great as an avg over all 1v1 through large scale the higher the gs for her the better.

    Listen everyone has a difference of opinion when it comes to classes, some i am very familiar with and some I like a lot but are so bad that I think they need serious improvement at much lower ap/dp levels as well as better protections. I miss the BDO of old when all classes had a ton of protection it seemed a lot more fun in a spam all buttons way.

    But current direction needs help but in tweeks at smaller steps to keep from getting these massive swings in damage then dp improvements.
     
  7. Ahri-

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    just stop complaining that awakening wizard has like 1 point of weakness and roll succ. The only game knowledge you need to know is how to press spacebar when a grab class uses mobility towards you rest is pure brainless spam because it doesnt matter what do you its either a hard cc, protected hard cc or protected massive debuff
     
  8. Ahri-

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    @ me with all this when the devs dont nerf succ dk then next week say. "yea we dont want to nerf classes anymore" and ultra buff succ wiz.

    There basically on way for a musa/mae/dk to approach a fight vs a valk/warrior/succ witch/wiz without taking a huge gamble. Succ mystic basically has infinite SA rotation too therefore its the same ****.

    You know what classes are getting "qol" buffs every week? I can tell you its not musa/mae/dk rather its mostly warrior/witch/wiz/valk, the classes who are already at he top of the food chain. The bias from the devs is so obvious at this point its not even funny. How long mae/musa have been asking for a chase qol that makes their iframe not have 2 massive gaps? how long dks have been asking for for their every protection ability including their iframes to not have more than 1 gap on each?

    Before you hit me with the "they balance around kr" everyone in kr literally has the same opinion the state of balance in the game right now which is pure dogshit.
     
  9. reconkangas

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    Well don't know what to tell you, if you want to keep complaining go ahead it doesn't change much.

    #1 KAKAO/PA are not taking any suggestions from NA/EU or any region outside of KR.

    #2 DEV'S stopped watching forums to check to see if BDO NA or any other area besides KR has a heart beat. So you getting all upset becouse you don't like what i have to say is well....You got a better chance at being struck by lighting twice on a clear sunny day before your heard.

    #3 if you dont like differing points of view go back to your safe space and little tweakers that you hang out with. They may actually listen to you cuz yah know people will do anything for there next hit.

    My suggestion is delete BDO becouse you know it's so trash.. maybe take a hammer to your keyboard and hard drive so your not tempted to play again. Then move on, i have a better chance at enjoying the game and playing then listening to someone cry about how bad things are but won't make a coherent sentence that doesn't start with OP/GOD OR TOP TIER class BUT the rest are garbage.
    obviously you dont understand when someone is trying to reach out to you guys to start coming together but hey what do I expect when everything is but this but this bit this ME ME ME..
     
    Crimson_Scarlet and Stealthe like this.
  10. The_Inquisitor

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    What if... the PLAYERS who gravitate towards high DPS classes in MMOs and spend the time to RESEARCH and build endless spreadsheets so they can be competative in pvp, and who LEARN how to play their class are the reason some, but not all, witchards do well in large scale combat.
     
  11. Verr

    Verr Valkyrie 60 EU

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    What if... the EARTH was FLAT?
     
  12. Ahri-

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    Literally last line on my comment says kr has same opinions on the game than NA/EU but youre probably EU so cant read i guess. unlucky.

    Well no **** youre enjpying the game youre playing a brainless spam class 1000 posts on the forums btw saying **** about others writing on forums lmao.

    Tell me why does wizard need a cc on every ability? please explain to me why dont they give qols to classes i mentioned? if your comment doesnt include any of these dont even bother responding.
     
  13. Fearless V

    Fearless V TranscendentSoul Witch NA

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    Umm almost every class with enough gear becomes a brainless spam class. It's partly what makes BDO's PvP low quality, compared to other MMO's with PvP in them.
     
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  14. Stealthe

    Stealthe SteaIthe Wizard 62 NA

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    Lmao!...we have 1 SA skill thats actually viable.Sure we can keep a stationary perma SA rotation but who cares if only 1 of the skills do any decent damage...You think being under an SA 3 second animation time skill thats only going to take 1/4 of your health is going to stop me from getting 1 combod in 2 seconds through my SA or grab stomped?...cmon really?

    If I cast bolide of destruction for SA im dead before my meteor even hits the ground...or what?...aqua jail?...if you stand in it for the full 3 seconds it may take 1/2 your health...Ill be dead in 2 or on the ground from a grab

    Awaken wiz may only have 1 hard counter but other classes have NO hard counter

    Now that we established and you agreed to awaken wiz's hard counter lets hear what your classes hard counter is,what skill does a majority of classes have that your class has no chance to defend against.

    Im just curious what classes you guys play that you are so bad at that your getting your a$$ handed to you by an awaken staffie in 2020,I mean the fact you even found 1 is a miracle.

    I mean if your guild finds out your getting wrecked by awaken wizards in 2020 they may kick you.You probably should keep it a secret.Its nearly on the same level as being killed by a Shai.
     
    #34 Stealthe, Sep 13, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2020
  15. Crimson_Scarlet

    Crimson_Scarlet Shai 60 NA

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    Got to agree imagine getting killed by an awakened staff class, especially anyone with a grab or shield, thats pretty embarrassing.

    Succ wiz different story as for succ witch well it still sucks except for pve shits actually very good.

    From my limited pvp experience most of the time if a awak witch/wiz cant kill you after off loading everyskill they can + e buff and sages in that 8 second of PA then they are dead since tp is most likely to be on cd and they would of been grabed or cc during that period waiting for respawn option.

    For rbf this is almost always the case for nodes and siege is different since most of the time it depends on the shot caller and what they want, range dmg, assigned heals ,PA's and what not so its skills on demand (there is no real skill spam since meteor/blizzard timers arent that short and pre awake skills have pretty bad cd s ) unless you're a hero who does what ever you want.

    Open world is pretty similar to rbf if they attack first and cant finish you off then either they live since they out gear you ,will also most likely dip or get curb stomped and farmed or you might just be so bad at you class that you get rektd which is also a possiblity.

    Also seen several old wizards swap to awake only to immediatly swap back to succ after they kept on getting rekt or no longer finding it viable.
     
  16. easay9

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    I mean I already shot BDO in the foot as my main MMO FFXIV is a way better game in the long run took a bit to get invested into it but once you get through its early game slog combat and hit that first expansion the game is a masterpiece so much quality and life and devs that actually listen to the players you really do get your subs worth of content. wish I could say the same for BDOs value pack LOL and given the games now free up to level 60 now which is a whole expansion for free just GG all other MMOs is all I have to say. nothing compares to that value.
     
  17. dobe

    dobe Lahn 60

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    Pffff dude,Striker/Mystic/Warrior/witchards can spam all other the place like they were still in pre cc change era....
    Okay this thread is full of delusions it remind me my discussions with valks....
     
    #37 dobe, Sep 13, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2020
  18. reconkangas

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    KR does not have the same opinions as NA or EU.. but i guess your so smart that even looking at my profile is too complex for you to notice that i am from NA...
    IF KR had same opinions as us this game would be totally different right now, we would not have the balancing garbage
     
    #38 reconkangas, Sep 13, 2020
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 14, 2020
  19. Ahri-

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    Yea not at all kr doesnt have same **** at alllll
     
  20. easay9

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    I mean if they think the same way then guess what PA doesnt listen and does what they want exactly why I only occationally grind on the game now as the PVP is ruined the gearing is flawed the class balance is awful I mean that guy litterally basically said everything is busted just trying to be nice about it lol.

    things that stuck out that I liked:

    Awakening ranger is bottom 3

    wants CC per class reduced and RNG CC removed ( aka no building RNG resist crap)

    Succ Wiz is broken
     

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