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Give Wizard and Witch EVEN MORE!

Discussion in 'PvP' started by HavocGravity, Sep 9, 2020.

  1. Hayate

    Hayate Warrior 63 EU

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    ninja, striker, kuno, tamer, lahn spring to mind straight away....
     
  2. WhySoSeeryus

    WhySoSeeryus Wizard 64 EU

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    so... it is okay for the class to heavily overperform just because people without competitive gear exist?

    dont get me wrong, im not gear elitist, but warriors need a reality check. they are super tanky compared to others and they deal a truckload of damage. they are top tier 1v1 and with gear (lol, who needs gear for mass scale, amirite?) they are also very decent in group fights. their pve is top notch also just for the good measure.
     
  3. Hayate

    Hayate Warrior 63 EU

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    I seriously dont know where to start on what you wrote...I ll take it from the start...Super tanky? Awakening warrior block breaks in literally 2 hits from any decent geared player, succesion warrior is a bit more tanky and his block lasts a while longer but still not even remotely comparable to guardian block....In small scale yeah you might say that are decent if they are geared, on large scale they are close to trash in main raid although they might do decent in flank or protecting the backline....
    I still cant bellieve you had the nerve to even mention PvE...i mean really? warrior pve had been absolute trash for more or less 3 years, i mean the only place warriors had similar numbers in trash loot to any other class was hystria and that with twice the effort of group packing and animation canceling to anyone else playing something different...How many times did you see anyone say before succesion that he made a warrior alt to grind? Kakao has been buffing warrior PvE for 2 years straight to bring it up to par with the rest of the classes...i guess the rest of you werent grinding those 3 years right?Calling for a reality check by a wizard on warrior PvE is just priceless....I d like to see you grind with spinning slash back in 2016, hitting 3 mobs in a small cone right in front of you character while wizards were decimating packs in an area the size of texas......
     
  4. WhySoSeeryus

    WhySoSeeryus Wizard 64 EU

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    with 297 ap i can tell you even average warriors blocks dont break in 2 hits.


    also, yes, your job IS to protect the backline and/or flank/skirmish not directly being in blob trading SAs. you are VERY good at it. knowing your place in an encounter and where u most contribute to the team suited to your kit is important. not running in head first and then saying "we suck at this".
     
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  5. Kayray

    Kayray Tenebrarum Musa 62 NA

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    All the classes you mentioned, with maybe the exception of ninja, are personally easier to fight than warrior. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a proponent for the kill warrior movement, but the recent buffs the class got put em prettyhigh up there on thetier list and it would be weird fir us to behave like thats not the case. The biggest problem thus game has, is high fos abuse. The game was literally not made for fps that high, so the gaps in a lotta skills are non existent at thise frames.

    A ninja at 60 frames and even 120 has a very clear and exploitable gap when they blockjump. But as the frames rise and if they cancel out with a dash, it pretty much doesn't exist. I think warrior to a large extent falls into this category. It's honestly why a lotta people find warrior to be overwhelming. From your perspective, you hzve gzps all over. But from the other guy's view you're literally protected the entire time.
     
  6. Kayray

    Kayray Tenebrarum Musa 62 NA

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    This i have to disagree with you on. A 316 warrior feels tankier than a 340 dk. Tested this in pvp arena the other day? Granted its only a little tankier, like 1 extra skill, but thats a lotta dp.
     
  7. Hayate

    Hayate Warrior 63 EU

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    I dont know what to tell you i dont really feel that tanky when i get two shotted by ninjas at 371dp with 5.4k hp....The new dp brackets helped a bit but i still feel like other classes are more tankier, like some mystics, strikers or guardians.....As i said in a previous post warrior has been getting constant buffs for over 2 years now, the reason behind it was that after the removal of lingering SA warrior was absolutelly trash...Dont get me wrong i too believed lingering SA was tottaly broken when it came to 1vs1 cause non grab classes didnt stand a chance in hell against a warrior but it was the only thing that kept warrior relevant in mass pvp...PvE wise warrior was never a top notch grinder, trash tier at launch and till awakening came out and even then he could barely make decent trash loot with a lot of effort on certain spots...The only time warrior was really performing in PVE was when succession came out and that was nerfed like two weeks in cause people just couldnt handle that warrior was making more trash loot than them after like 3 years in the game...The fps issue is not a warrior issue, many classes get a huge advantage when they are played by people with monster pcs that play in potato graphics to have like 300fps. They tried to do something about it like a couple of years ago by limiting the fps to 60 or whatever and they broke the game, i mean i remember you had issues even talking to npcs in the cities, it was hell on earth for like a week till they reverted...Thing is i cant experience that first hand playing from a 9 year old pc (I5 2500 , 970gtx, laughable whatever ram), i can at times get 100fps in potato mode inside the arena but that is nowhere near stable and the frame drops hurt me more than the fps gain i have by playing in optimal mode....
     
  8. Distaken

    Distaken Warrior 30 NA

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    Kinda curious about what it is exactly on warrior that you think makes him broken?
     
  9. Hayate

    Hayate Warrior 63 EU

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    You ll get a lot of good answers here, i mean i ve been called broken by a succesion wizard and GOD tier 1vs1 by a lahn.....I feel like this is comedy central.....
     
  10. Distaken

    Distaken Warrior 30 NA

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    Classes better than warr for 1v1? Ninja, kuno, tamer, lahn, sorc are all either equal or greater than warrior for 1v1. Issue is that for all of those excluding lahn you have to actually know your class and your opponent's class and can't just do random BS, but bc they are strong a lot of players reroll to them hoping to be good without putting in the effort. A lot of ninjas/kunos/sorcs who dont know their class are just free kills and their lack of skill makes the class seem a lot less intimidating than it is at high level. Awak Kuno especially Ive seen takes more effort than many other classes to play it well. Warrior is definitely high up on 1v1 rating lists though. Probably very top of A tier or very bottom of S tier if played well. One issue I've noticed though is that people see the very top players on a class either with skill or gear (example: warrior) like Hands and Zethiann respectively, then think Warrior is broken. What they don't consider though is how much time people like Hands put into the game and the dedicated training they did. When was talking with Hands awhile back he mentioned how many days he'd spend 10, 15 sometimes more hours per day practicing which is ridiculous. Then classes that take ~2 weeks to near master complain about not achieving similar results. Highly skilled players should tear sht up, if you nerf a class in the wrong way it ends up just skillcapping it for those great players and if you buff a class in the wrong way it makes the level of skill matter less for the class.
     
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  11. Distaken

    Distaken Warrior 30 NA

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    we need to accept our warrior privilege and trade in all our SAs as reparations for the horrible sins we've committed
     
  12. Hayate

    Hayate Warrior 63 EU

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    Wait you mean all 4 of them in preawakening and awakening combined?Being also generous calling chopping kick an SA for that split second.....Man i m pretty sure they wouldnt be satisfied even if that happened.....
     
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  13. WhySoSeeryus

    WhySoSeeryus Wizard 64 EU

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    its legit the nightmare to fight on my spec 1v1. i dare say maybe even worst matchup in the sense of hopelessness .
    smart ones lock out any chance of my class performing their job in smallscale also. the second i use awaken anilocked skills (and i need to do it sooner or later because of need for protection from other players) im solar grabbed if warrior is paying attention even slightly.
    even in bigger fights, if they play their class to use their kit strenghts they are very strong with their nukes and slow, skirmish options and frankly, they are amazing team protectors in the backline also when they are on your team.
    amazing pve just is icing on the cake (to add to imbalance vs good part of the classes).

    class is indeed in a really really good position. to be perfectly honest, their damage output and ease of getting a cc combined with survivability and mobility is too high.

    (and dont get me wrong, id say the same about succ wizards, valks awa strikers atm and all other overtuned crap in the game)
     
  14. Kayray

    Kayray Tenebrarum Musa 62 NA

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    There are 3 things here, its sad but I know why you feel like some classes are tankier than you and straight up it's because they go evasion. Evasion based dp is hella overtuned, and being a warrior you peolly go dr right? I heard valks have started going evasion now too despite the nature of the class. Its ****.
    Warrior grinding is something I'll never really know about. Haven't played the class in that capacity, but i honestly don't know how relevant that is in terms of pvp. Heck i play musa and until the recent patch **** we couldn't even grind past aakman with awakening lol.
    I honestly feel for you. I used to play on a potato laptop about 2 years ago which would barely give me 60 frames and the difference is so polarizing its just insane.the game isn't the same. It's honestly why this conversation feels so ridiculous to you. When people face these 200 fps warriors it honestly feels like the game is just on slow mode for you. Its not just warriors btw, ninjas kunos are also like that to a large extent. P.s. i don't like instant gravedigger change. **** that. Having a 30% all slow with no counterplay is trash.
     
  15. Kayray

    Kayray Tenebrarum Musa 62 NA

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    I would agree with you on kuno and ninja, lahn is more of a personal problem since i don't have a grab. But i think she's manageable with 1 and straight up, sorc is literally just knowing the matchup. The reason i think warrior is top 3, is mostly because you guys have the insane mobility that you do while also having nearly 100% uptime on gravedigger(instant slow now) and ground smash 40% slow(this skill also works as a pseudo i frame since when i dbite into it, i slip past and get ccd). The combination of crippling slows, fast movement, sa block and prolly hands down one of the best grabs in the game makes warrior an absolute nightmare in 1v1s. I'm not sure i agree with people saying ohhh nerf em burn em down (I'd like instant slow on graveedigger gond gone gone), but I can't honestly sit here and watch you guys pretend like you aren't a really good class right now.
     
  16. Rügenwalder Pommersche

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    made it even harder than it alrdy was :(
     
  17. SuzyIdle

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    dw guys soon we can all be succ wiz , this company is so dumb its actually insane. final nail in coffin for sieges ,gg
     
  18. Fearless V

    Fearless V TranscendentSoul Witch NA

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    Do many people even show up to sieges these days? I heard it was a dead scene with the top tier guilds deciding who gets the castles each week. Did I hear wrong?
     
  19. Distaken

    Distaken Warrior 30 NA

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    Against musa yeah definitely, warrior is probably THE hardest matchup for them at least from my perspective. Tamer is definitely a top 3 1v1 class, but she doesnt get played as often and even fewer people play her well or PvP a lot with her so she isn't as well known and thus leaves less of an impression. Sorc is matchup to matchup, I wouldnt say shes better than warrior straight up but she has high potential just like warrior, fighting a good warrior and a good sorc are both very difficult. It all varies from matchup and between players but Id say ninja, kuno, tamer, lahn, sorc, when considering all around 1v1, are all either equal or greater, of course doing worse and better in some matchups. Warrior slows are broken and I agree should be nerfed. Ground smash slow should just be removed entirely or maybe changed to like -10% movement speed? The skill literally has it all. Good damage, super armor, down smash, CC, great addon options, and a HUGE -40% movement speed debuff. Thats ridiculous. Slows and maybe damage are the two things I really think need to go on warrior. Ultra fast class that slows everyone down by 40%-50%? The gravedigging slow is stupid as well, especially that now the skill does great damage and soon will have the option to be a CC as well. So that will be instant -30% all speed debuff, good addon options, CC, SA, great damage, and linger-able. Warrior is in a weird spot right now with OP mechanics on some things and lacking mechanics for other things. If they want(ed) to buff warrior properly they need to nerf him before they try to do any sort of fix or buff.
     
  20. Distaken

    Distaken Warrior 30 NA

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    I mean, you can't really be that surprised about the wizard vs warrior 1v1 matchup? Wizard just sucks in 1v1 all around no matter what youre fighting really. The wizard vs warrior matchup is especially difficult but PA pretty much told witchards to take PA and never 1v1, a choice I don't agree with but wizard just doesn't have the tools to properly 1v1 in general.
    Thats true but there should be something stopping casters and ranged classes from just casting/firing away, HOWEVER, I do think that witch/wizard should have some animation cancels, they should just make that little directional spin you do like a 4 second cooldown iframe animation cancel or something. The issue of you being grabbed while anilocked is another class based issue not so much a warrior one imo.
    I guess. The slows aren't really as impactful for the large fights since so many other classes also have slows but also have more tools for largescale in general. Even for a class as simple and braindead as guardian, pretty much every guild would rather have the guardian and what they offer compared to a skilled warrior. Warrior doesnt have a lot of protection so he relies on block to fill some gaps but when block instantly dies in group fights hes left with just unprotection and uselessness. The big issue for warrior group PvP at the moment as I see it is that 1, warrior has absolutely no proper disengage, and beyond that he even only has one skill (headchase) that can move him backwards without the assistance of mouse to move. Warrior needs some kind of SA disengagement skill, charging thrust needs to be fully forward guard and the kick/collision needs to be removed, and his needs some form of protection. FG upon use and SA upon success is what I think personally should happen but even just SA on success, at the moment using grab while lots of enemies are around is just a death sentence. Which partly ties into something else you said
    "their ease of getting a CC" this couldn't be further from the truth in a group PvP scenario. Grab will get you killed if you use it in a group with attentive enemies.1 skill, 1 skill is all warrior has as a viable protected CC. Ground smash is about it. Chopping kick is low range and small hitbox + no AoE, both are bound meaning theyre bound to be resisted. Shield charge along with chopping kick are required for movement which is another issue for warrior. He has to use many of his CC skills for movement and even some of his damage skills for movement, shield charge, chopping kick, balance strike, solar flare, are all example of CC skills that are mostly used for movement instead of CC because for the first two, warrior desperately needs the protected movement more than the CC and for the other two he desperately needs the speed more than the CC. Slashing the dead is an example of a should be damage skill that is forced to be used for movement many times due to lack of protected movement. Warrior survivability also isn't great. ~4-5 viable SA skills most with decently high cooldowns. Only 1 (inconsistent) iframe to try to iframe damage. And nowhere near enough tankiness to be in any kind of mainball of big group fight like that. Warrior is much closer to an assassin class than to a tank/survivability class. Warrior has good mobility but so do lots of classes, and many classes do it while staying halfway protected as well. If a warrior wants to really move he has to be unproteced, thats not necessarily a bad thing but so many people think warrior remains 90% protected which is absolutely incorrect, they just dont punish the gaps that are there.
     

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