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Grabs after CC

Discussion in 'PvP' started by BDO_Nictofilia, Jun 29, 2020.

  1. BDO_Nictofilia

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    Hi everyone :)
    Do you think it is balanced for a class to instantly grab you right after cc finishes? In my experience, fighting a grab class has become much more tough (to me, at least), mostly because when I fight a non-grab class I just have to worry about using my protections correctly, knowing my opponent's weaknesses, etc...
    But when it comes to some grab classes, their pressure feels much more threatening for several reasons:

    1. If your skills have slow animation, you're an easy grab. That means your chances to cc your opponent are lowered since most of the time it'd be risky to use a slow skill in melee range. This would also imply that you shouldn't play aggressive at all and wait for them to do all the moves, since if you dash to them they can just wait in FG and grab you as soon as you get close, or anytime you are in their grab hitbox.

    2. For example, strikers, berserkers, mystics... are much more harder to kill compared to other classes. Im sure I've faced trials as my main DK and, where I can easily blow up my opponent's health and exploit their mistakes, these classes (for example) would take so much less damage. Even in a combo, sometimes the classes mentioned before can be tanky enough to resist it and instantly grab you from cc. Basically, my chances to win are low and would require more dmg/cc/combos than them, since they just have to land one free grab and win.

    So, do you think grabs are balanced at the moment? Should grabs respect FG at least? Could they be unprotected but fast enough to be playable? Or maybe apply a brief cooldown after they get up from cc to have a fair combo?

    Last thing is, obviously, not all grab classes feel the same. In my experience, fighting a ninja, kuno, valk... doesn't really feel as pressuring as some other classes, and some dont seem to really need the grab to win, but it's the easy way.

    Although this topic might be old, the situation hasn't changed at all and I'd like to know what are the community's opinions about it now :)
     
  2. impurety

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    The reason strikers and mytics are harder to kill for you as a DK is because the damage numer is low only 61. This will be increased to 78 soon. https://i.redd.it/hxvccbu5qa451.png
    Removing protected grabs from some classes like striker or beserker makes then useless for pvp. Because those classes use a grab in every combo. So if you remove this you have to give something back in return like protected movement or iframe skills or more damage. Maybe ninja is a different story indeed because his skill toolkit is stil good and a good ninja will kill you without using a grab.
     
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  3. farsay

    farsay Mystic 62 NA

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    Good DK kites around and tries to chip a mystic and striker down, then goes in for a cc finishing combo, I had a DK friend who was able to iframe out of every grab. They are increasing the damage that DK do to mystic and striker soon, so that's good. The classes damage modifiers are a terrible idea in my opinion.
     
  4. Wollbert

    Wollbert Witch 61 EU

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    you think it is balanced that classes can rotate protection for days then?
     
  5. Anvorka

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    Hello,

    Yes grabs are broken. You can counter SA / FG with this mecanic.
    Yes you can grab ppl after a CC.
    But tbh with you, that's a part of the game. If you are fight a class with a grab, you know it so that's why you need to play carefully. I know it's easy to say but look, I'm a warrior, if I don't finish my combo against berserk, I'm sure at 100% that he'll grab me and he has grabs with SA. So everyone has this problem.

    Secondly like Wollbert said, do you think class like lahn succession (it's an exemple) isn't broken with her SA / Iframe rotate ? And she is not the only class. If you want that PA removes the grab, they need to remove SA iframe and FG too. And I'm sure you'll not like it.

    Grab is 1 v 1 is strong, but in large scale, use a grab if death most of the time. But you need it 'cause some class' will try to kill you in your back, you can't CC her with normal CC 'cause she does rotate protection for one years. You need the grab to counter that.
     
  6. BDO_Nictofilia

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    That sounds awesome, thanks! I understand they need grab to combo and that can be okay. But the fact that for now they can be aggressive with grabs and be considered tanky at the same time is really strong imo, so I really hope those changes balance the matchup properly :)
     
  7. WhySoSeeryus

    WhySoSeeryus Wizard 63 EU

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    i dont have a problem with grab mechanic itself, but with the fact some classes are all but free kills to mobile classes with grab access.

    [​IMG]
     
  8. BDO_Nictofilia

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    The problem is, DK iframes are terribly bad because they have significant gap at the start of them (invincible only when disappeared). So even if I react quickly before they grab me, the iframe (dusk) doesnt activate instantly so you get grabbed/cc anyways and that's why many DKs are asking for a change on it.
     
  9. WhySoSeeryus

    WhySoSeeryus Wizard 63 EU

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    best advice i can give you for that is "just" get few hundred fps and good gaming monitor. low latency is very much welcome also.

    coz this game is coded like spaghetti.
     
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  10. Anvorka

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    @BDO_Nictofilia *But the fact that for now they can be aggressive with grabs and be considered tanky at the same time is really strong imo*

    I agree on this point, I mean, warrior, valk, zerk don't have a real sense atm 'cause they have big DMG, grab, they can tank in endgame. For me, we need to tank with CC but no assassin in the same time. But if you do that to those class', you can need make class like DK, ninja, kuno, witch, wiz and more, glasscanon. Just dmg and that' it. No scaling DR and EVA on them, just AP monkey.
     
  11. BDO_Nictofilia

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    Nope, I didnt say at any moment I want grabs removed nor I did mention grabs in mass pvp. My point was that in certain scenarios, you find yourself forced to deal less dmg because they can grab you instantly after cc. Basically, that having good damage, decent grab and being tanky at the same time is strong. For example, versus a dk whose iframes dont even activate instantly to iframe the grab.
     
  12. BDO_Nictofilia

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    That's basically why I didnt play wiz/witch when I started playing, having so few mobility made me feel anxious in pvp lol
     
  13. Fearless V

    Fearless V Lahn 61 NA

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    It was ok for them to remove Rangers defensive kit while not only giving them nothing in return. But they continued to take away damage from this class. Yet you believe that grab classes should get something back, for the removal of their I-Win-Button. Hmmm I don't know.

    I also believe that notion, that the game should be balanced around 2 hours of the 24 hour day, should be thrown away. I'd like to see BDO balance more around 1v1s since that's what you have to deal 22 hours of the 24 hour day. But meh I doubt Pearl Abyss is smart enough for such a thing. They are not even smart enough to make decent group play in a MMO. I guess all we have to look forward to is some Western Dev teams making MMOs in the future. Because Koreans are objectively speaking, very bad game Devs.
     
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  14. WhySoSeeryus

    WhySoSeeryus Wizard 63 EU

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    having most of your ccs bound/kd also means u r prolly grabbed from the floor if they resist your combo cc chain("thnx" adamantine crap crystals). nothing is as fun as getting grabbed seemingly from the floor.
     
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  15. BDO_Nictofilia

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    Yeah it really depends on the ''role'' or ''strategy'' the class is based on. DK is high dmg and average casting speed skills (imo), just like a wizard or witch but mixed with maybe a sorc. Basically it would be normal for a DK to get quickly killed even in she's on SA, but it would also be normal for her to kill people in a few casting skills. The problem begins when things get out of the ''strategy'' or ''role'' that is meant for the class. For example, imagine a DK having all that huge dmg and SA but she's really tanky.
     
    #15 BDO_Nictofilia, Jun 29, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2020
  16. BDO_Nictofilia

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    Imo, having a kit that relies on grabs is kinda sad. I mean, I think it'd be much better if grabs were used specifically to counter classes that can constantly be protected either by SA or FG, but instead, I only get to see players who rather spam grab for everything, just rush towards you and use grab and hope desync or a random gap puts you in their hands, if they fail they just go away and wait for CD to try again. That's why I dont bother to fight grab classes in melee range, I just use the quickest or ranged skills I have and get out quickly before they grab me, a.k.a. grab pressure.
     
  17. BDO_Nictofilia

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    No I dont, just like spammable iframes aren't okay. Grabs are made to counter exactly what you said. But actually, people don't care about wether you're using protection rotations or not, they just use grabs as general and main cc since it just ignores everything except iframes (if it doesnt have gaps or desync ofc).
    Also, Im pretty sure grab classes also have protection rotations or SA block stance like warrior or valk, but not all classes have grabs to counter that.
     
  18. Fearless V

    Fearless V Lahn 61 NA

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    I believe FGs should be effective again grabs. I don't believe grab should just be this OPAF mechanic that people spam until they win. But BDO has inferior PvP either way so not that would matter much. But it would make BDO a little bit more interesting.
     
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  19. Luminosity

    Luminosity Valkyrie 62

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    I can also rotate protection pretty well, 95% gapless or so. However I can not dive 15 people desync all their grapples through constant SA/iframe dashes/tp's and then fly away/tp out again like succ Wizard and Lahn can and do all the time. If protection itself was the problem, oh dear god Awakening Witch would be a 1v1 Monster. But you can actually use your grapple on her. Something you can not really do on Lahn.

    You do not need a grapple to counter warrior or valk block.
    https://streamable.com/dfl563
    That is a single Ranger on my 375DP FG. And without FG Valk has no protected movement.
     
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  20. WhySoSeeryus

    WhySoSeeryus Wizard 63 EU

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    have to sign this +1
     

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