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How to Balance AP scaling

Discussion in 'PvP' started by Muhaha, Dec 24, 2018.

  1. Muhaha

    Muhaha Valkyrie 62 NA

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    • This still keeps close to the same AP brackets
    • hopefully balances the shitty AP scaling a lil more than it is now
    • gets rid of the 209-235 bracket gap
    • Would make every enchant feel worth it

    1. (T1)110-238ap +1bonus ap for every 3ap
    2. (T2)239-250 +5 bonus ap for every 3ap
    3. (T3)251-259 +9 bonus ap for every 3ap.
    4. (T4)260-268 +13 bonus ap for every 3ap
    5. (T5)269-299 +6 bonus ap every 3ap

    So to toss some numbers out, so you can compare, it'd look like this.​
    (Tier 1)
    140ap it'd keep the 10 bonus ap
    170ap It'd change to 20 bonus ap
    209ap - 33 bonus ap
    236ap - 42 bonus ap

    (Tier 2)
    239 - 47 ap
    242- 52 ap
    245 - 57 ap
    248 - 62 ap

    (Tier 3)
    251- 71 ap
    254- 80 ap
    257- 89 ap

    (Tier 4)
    260- 102 ap
    263- 115 ap
    266- 128 ap

    (Tier 5)
    269- 134 ap
    272- 140 ap
    275- 146 ap
    278- 152 ap
    281- 158 ap
    284- 164 ap
    287- 170 ap
    290- 176 ap
    293- 182 ap
    296- 188 ap
    299- 194 ap
    ~302+ 200 ap​


    https://itzdarkvoid.wordpress.com/2018/04/18/black-desert-online-renown-score-bonuses/ ~ If you'd like to compare to normal Bonus AP or compare DR Bonus tiers.



    DP to match my scaling, since the scaling would make the competitive AP bar a bit lower
    After 206+dp, you start gaining 1 DR every 2 DP.


    For instance, https://bdoplanner.com/RackWallWON,346dp with alchemy stone on, 222 DR + 85 hidden DR = 307 * .2 (renown dr%) = 61.4 extra DR, if its done that way.
    or
    https://bdoplanner.com/KunaiScaryAlligator
    407dp 283dr 85 hidden dr, =73.6 extra DR
    296dp = 34 extra DR

    vs my suggestion

    296dp-206dp=90/2= 45 DR
    346dp - 206dp = 140/2 = 70DR
    or
    416-206= 210/2 = 105DR

    Lets be courteous and say with class base, gems, and such, at 416 it'd be 85 extra DR normally. my suggestion, would only be 20 extra DR, and would negate most of the extra AP from the new scaling. So it'd work similar to how it does now, just more balanced around the board. 296dp would normally be 34 more extra DR, my suggestion, 294 would give 44 DR, 10+ more than normal. But it'd be worth it for the overall balance.

    XPEndr0.png
    ^^ would rather see this graph look more rounded off and balanced, rather than flat stepping into spikes.


    So it should make DR more effective than it is now, matching the AP bar being lowered. As well as making it feel more worth while for enchanting for the AP/DP memes. And it'd let people be allowed to build more freely, rather than having to hit the next tier.
    Could hopefully use these to create the base to build the evasion/accuracy/class balance on.
    Hell, if its still needs more DR because AP is so OP, would be as simple as adjusting it to 2DR every 3DP after 331+ or somethin of the sort. Or the evasion will balance it out.

    Thoughts and Opinions?
     
    #1 Muhaha, Dec 24, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2018
  2. Netreiam

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    I’m not sure how effective DP vs AP is yet so I can’t really say that I think that AP gains should be lowered but the idea looks pretty fair.
     
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  3. WhySoSeeryus

    WhySoSeeryus Wizard 62 EU

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    more than ap bonuses they need to look at individual class damage scaling with that same ap. and balance preawaken sets.
     
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  4. Fearless V

    Fearless V FearlessBeing Witch 60 NA

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    I'll be vehemently surprised if they do anything to AP scaling. Other then raise it even higher. AP scaling has one purpose in the eyes of Pearl Abyss. The ability to entice whales to gamble in their cash shop, to Pay to Fast to Win.

    So again I Seriously doubt Pearl Abyss, and surely Kakao will ever lower AP scaling. As that would make whales think twice before trying to Pay to Fast to Win in BDO.
     
  5. Averdun

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    Ap does not need any sort of brackets or bonuses, what they need to do in the form of PvP is go by a case by case basis with each class and start nerfs/buffs. This is the only way that PvP between classes will have some sort of balance within this game (even then, there will still be some classes stronger than others).
     
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  6. Spartakatz

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    the whole system is nonsense. why add ap to ap plus bonus ap and what not, just leave it to simple values, adjust equipment or skills if needed, and while you're at it, finally split dp/evasion properly, and also reveal the still hidden magic/melee/ranged values.

    like you know, a normal system found in every game, as a side effect it would make balancing much much easier, i'd say it's even impossible to balance with all those extra things, instead of a simple formula as a basis.
     
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  7. ManlyBeard

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    Well we’ll have to see if they will still do something to DP, as they said they wanted the ttk to be longer, but nothing changed so far
     
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  8. Vunak

    Vunak Valkyrie 60 NA

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    Or just remove the AP brackets for PvP and leave it in for PvE. Then take another look at each classes actual modifiers on their specific individual skills/spells and buff the pre-awakening kits.

    The TTK in PvP should be brought back to how it was when +15 was the gear cap. PvP back then was way more entertaining.
     
  9. Muhaha

    Muhaha Valkyrie 62 NA

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    Idk, if you're getting rewarded for every 3 ap from 110+, every gain is going to feel worth it. Most likely making people stick with the game longer, double think rouletting all of their gear, remove some of the bs tier gaps, balance out the scaling so soft cap actually feels like soft cap. May make people enhance more, rather than hit a tier and they're done. If they're able to get the ap scaling balanced, i feel it'd help with overall game balance, so we can move on from gear and focus on class balance.

    Also, it may help with sales? If your gear value is too worth throwing in the rng grinder, people may be more likely to buy costumes for cron stones. If every 3 AP gets you extra bonus ap, it'll feel like you'll always have a tier to reach. So the Whale that are 261+, they'll feel little to no difference.
    Like 263 would give a 104 bonus ap, 251 would give 70. just for that 12 gs gap, it'd still have a 34 bonus ap gap, normal diff from 261 and 249 is 44 bonus ap; so it should still appeal to whales. Hell if the competitive ap is lower, the whales may even P2W at lower gear, rather than PEN only.
     
  10. Ushuo

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    Big Yes ! and the ap scaling is making the game with only one viable option, the ap meta.. used to play hybrid and i miss it ;ç
     
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  11. Chaos Ronin

    Chaos Ronin RyunokoDynasty Maehwa 61 NA

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    Idk why the AP you have can't just be the AP you have... What is up with all this bonus crap?
     
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  12. Desibabez94

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    They NEED to just balance the damn DP like they promised lol, it still feels like I’m gettin shot hard even with a full DP or full resistance set. My lowest DP is 366 and even then with my nouver it’s a challenge, but honestly I can’t tell whether this is worse or better than before their “changes”.
     
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  13. Vunak

    Vunak Valkyrie 60 NA

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    Blanket buffing/nerfing AP and DP is what put us in this situation in the first place. They need to do passes on all the classes abilities and modifiers to bring it all in line. It's the hard way, but its the right way. They can make pre-awakening viable again doing that as well and bring the TTK down to where its manageable. Remove the AP scaling in PvP. It can be left alone for PvE and then go from there with blanket buffing/nerfing AP/DP.
     
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  14. Desibabez94

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    Actually yeah, that sounds a lot nicer. Imo we could have been fine with the old AP/DP stuff from pre RS days - no extra buffs other than crystals. They need a full reversal tbh..
     
  15. Vunak

    Vunak Valkyrie 60 NA

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    All depends on their ethical response to the game in general. If its just about money and they don't really care how hard they milk their customers, we will never see a reversal in the games direction to continuously push for higher AP levels.

    If they actually care about creating a fun and enjoyable game that is about retention of its players rather than milking new players as they come in and leave, then we may possibly see a reversal in the direction of the game and proper balancing changes.

    I hope it's the latter and we do see a resurgence to how BDO was when the game first released, I just don't see it happening. Possible - but unlikely, unfortunately.
     
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  16. Jaeger

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    Maybe how to fix dp?
     
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  17. Muhaha

    Muhaha Valkyrie 62 NA

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    How to fix DP? by fixing AP first, balance the AP, then you can balance the DR (if the scaling didn't fix the current issues), then evasion, with evasion balance comes an accuracy balance, with an accuracy balance comes class balance due to skill accuracy, in which they'll probably have to balance damage and other stuff on skills.
    Need a basis to start, biggest imbalance is AP scaling imo (aside from class/skill kit imbalance), because its damn near impossible to balance it for the lesser geared people and the whales. Because due to the AP bonus/scaling, it creates a huge gear gap. which is where all the complaints come from.
    Solve the AP gap, solve the balance issue. And the AP bonus and such, its so you don't feel like its a waste of time. How would you feel if you spent 6 months trying your hardest to get a tet ogre, you finally get that 5 extra ap, and its not even noticeable. No, **** that, i think the bonus needs to be a thing for this exact reason. But there needs to be a better balance.

    Heres what the ap scaling looks like in a graph
    https://imgur.com/a/5sKwvCv
    Feel like my suggestion would balance it a bit more, with somethings like how 209 is still pretty much 30ap, those values are there for a reason i think. Because those are close to the max values dp memes get to. Can't have an unkillable tank that can murder everything with ez. Tbh, i'd probably even remove caphras from pen armor.
     
    #17 Muhaha, Dec 25, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2018
  18. WhySoSeeryus

    WhySoSeeryus Wizard 62 EU

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    they need to remove caphras from pen - period. :D
     
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  19. Muhaha

    Muhaha Valkyrie 62 NA

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    DP to match my scaling, since the scaling would make the competitive AP bar a bit lower
    After 206+dp, you start gaining 1 DR every 2 DP.


    For instance, https://bdoplanner.com/RackWallWON,346dp with alchemy stone on, 222 DR + 85 hidden DR = 307 * .2 (renown dr%) = 61.4 extra DR, if its done that way.
    or
    https://bdoplanner.com/KunaiScaryAlligator
    407dp 283dr 85 hidden dr, =73.6 extra DR
    296dp = 34 extra DR

    vs my suggestion

    296dp-206dp=90/2= 45 DR
    346dp - 206dp = 140/2 = 70DR
    or
    416-206= 210/2 = 105DR

    So it should make DR more effective than it is now, matching the AP bar being lowered. As well as making it feel more worth while for enchanting for the DP memes. And it'd let people be allowed to build more freely, rather than having to hit the next tier.
    Could hopefully use these to create the base to build the evasion/accuracy/class balance on.
    Hell, if its still needs more DR because AP is so OP, would be as simple as adjusting it to 2DR every 3DP.

    Idk, something along these lines, i tried... too many dreamz of balance, sad we'll probably never see such a thing called 'balance'.
     
    #19 Muhaha, Dec 27, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2018
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  20. Desibabez94

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    Am I going crazy or does renown still ****ing exist...? Because I can still see damage bonuses and DR modifiers in my stats list like before . Only difference is the physical renown score that showed is now gone, yet I still see all these bonuses. So. Is renown score NOT gone? I’m lost. Feels like I tank more with my evasion set now tho so that’s cool ig.
     
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