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Huge Problem

Discussion in 'PvP' started by Glizz, Feb 29, 2020.

  1. Alrikmerc

    Alrikmerc Grimmdhal Tamer 63 NA

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    Duels are fun, but kind of meaningless when the nerfs are coming because of what certain classes do in group pvp. a 25% damage decrease isn't going to hurt their ability to 1v1. It just means they have to do a whole combo.
     
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  2. Glizz

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    Does anybody have any realistic suggestions of what could be done instead of these nerfs? I believe they impact the class too drasticallly. Also do any Ninja players have any suggestions?
     
  3. Rügenwalder Pommersche

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    personally (not a ninja player btw) i think the dmg nerf is justified the mobility nerf is stupid
    i also (again just my opinion) prefer to fight succ ninja instead of awak even if succ does WAY more dmg
     
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  4. AZzalor

    AZzalor EU

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    I think removing stiff from blockjump would be a good start. It's already strong enough that you can tp behind someone.
    A slight dmg reduction for ninja is fine. Increase of cd on ninja step.

    That's it tbh, i don't think ninja needs any other nerfs. Stealth already got gimped so hard over the past 2 years that it's now better to use for the short dash you do at the start to move instead of using it to stealth engage.
     
  5. Gamefreak

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    this is hilarious gear or skill? your telling me ninjas with 250 ap should be able to one combo fully geared evasion players? get your head out your ass ninja is being nerfed for a good reason and you cant do anything to change that this has been long overdue
     
  6. AZzalor

    AZzalor EU

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    Please show me a video of a 250ap ninja onecomboing a 800+ evasion target.
    Stop talking nonsense pls.
     
  7. Wollbert

    Wollbert Witch 61 EU

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  8. AZzalor

    AZzalor EU

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    Interesting, but what ap does he have?

    Also it looks to me like the shai could've gone up at the end and survive with ~20% hp, but hard to tell from that angle.
     
  9. Rügenwalder Pommersche

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    he showed his gear in the clip
    upload_2020-3-5_20-39-45.png
     
  10. IWalkAlone

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    Kauni likes this.
  11. Glizz

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    I believe the Ninja class is much deserving of keeping its movement, and smokescreen buffs the same and that the nerf of damage is in excess of what it should be.
     
  12. AZzalor

    AZzalor EU

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    Ah yes, those 250 ap :)
     
  13. Glizz

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    That’s 296AP on one of the best Ninja players on the North American region. I don’t believe this class needs such an extreme nerf.
     
  14. Netreiam

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    So these are generalizations since I'm not experienced enough with ninja to talk specifics.

    BUT

    I think they should buff his mechanics but nerf his overall damage.

    I think a fair way to nerf damage would be to give a debuff on skills that will "mark" a single target (only one at a time) and makes some attacks deal full damage to that person, while other non-targets will only take some damage (pvp only). Some attacks can stay full damage to all in range, but these would primarily be on utility/lower damage aoes.

    To add on to this, he could get a passive that increases damage dealt the lower the enemy's HP % is. For instance if the enemy is at 100% HP there is no bonus. At 80% his attacks deal 10% more dmg to that target, at 60% HP 25% bonus, below 40% HP he can get 50% bonus, and below 20% he can get 100% for basically double damage.

    Along with this I think his stealth should be buffed (faster movespeed, only canceled when CCed) but stealth engages nerfed by only allowing certain skills to be used in stealth. With the only CC being a stun (so no downsmash chaining/air attack mods) that maxes out the CC counter instantly (so if they survive they have a chance to retaliate but will be severely weakened)

    With these damage nerfs I think he would be clear for better protections so that he could maneuver in and out of group fights easier and also get better buffs for support outside of damage, like making smokescreen give a lot of ranged damage reduction and make characters within the smokescreen
    radius untargetable (so only melee attacks and AoE ranged attacks can hit) or making his grass ninjutsu skill "root" targets (able to use skills but not move) for a brief time (and since they can still attack it wouldn't not count towards the CC counter).


    Overall I would hope that this would mean that he would be better at stalking assassinating/weakening high priority targets, or finishing off weaker targets, and providing utility to group fights so that he can still contribute even if he can't focus on a target.
     
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  15. Glizz

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    That’s the best comment that I personally have seen on this forum so far. Thank you for your input.
     
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  16. Wollbert

    Wollbert Witch 61 EU

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    there is no rooting mechanic in this game you could just give the skill a 2 seconds 90% movementspeed debuff
     
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  17. Netreiam

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    That would work too, I just wanted to suggest a new mechanic because move speed slow also affects the animations of some skills.
     
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  18. Rekch

    Rekch Krid DarkKnight 62 EU

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    Meanwhile Globox (for those who pvp a lot Colossal who was in resillience at some point and used to sit in rbf everyday) who stopped playing around 6 months ago used to go 3k-6k+ points in almost every rbf abusing stealth.
    You know rabam stealth allow you to move in it right? You know you can't counter stealth if you don't even know a ninja has stealth in your perimeter in the first place? It is litteraly the mechanic I hate the more in this game. Ninjas walking on Arsha in spots like star end or kratuga waiting for someone to pass by and just one shot him.
    Maybe as you said i'm bad. I don't deny being bad in fact. But enlighten me as how I'm supposed to counter a stealth engage ninja when I had no clue he was there in the first place? Like you get out of the spawn in rbf and he is standing still in stealth right after the door and you never saw him stealthing.
    Seriously dude I need your light, tell me how I should know he is there and how I should proceed to counter him.
    Same thing for kuno iframing in the middle of players using ebuff in succ and ulting (iframe and massive damage). I'm not even saying kuno is busted, because it is not, but denying that you can anihilate players in mass pvp with litteraly 0 class knowledge is just plain wrong. You can hope on a kuno and iframe in the middle of players to just spin or succession ult, you litteraly have to know 1 mobility combo, sure you will die and you won't do 3k points and you probably won't do a shitton of kills, but don't tell me you won't get absurb amount of kills using around 0 skill, not even talking about 1v1 as there are some classes that have combo that will delete 99% of players you cross without having to actually learn how to properly play the class.
    You are litteraly saying "no it's not taht strong because i said it isnt and its a lie to say everyone can get on it" when litteraly every noob that gets on ninja(and some other classes) will, in fact, get kills and win a lot of duels without being really good at the class. Sure you will stomp them if you know how to fight against ninja but its still absurd. Every noob can blockjump grab and proceed to one tap you with 269 ap...

    On a more serious note, ninja's nerf is too hard. Damage nerf was enough, mobility nerf is overtuned and gimp the class too hard from what I've seen. I play with a ninja friend everyday and he will most likely reroll if it hits EU in the state it is right now because he doesn't enjoy it and I can understand why.
     
  19. Kauni

    Kauni Archer 63 EU

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    I mean let's be fair... you rarely will counter any class if you don't know it's there and will have the first hit on you :-)
    In a PvP environment (maybe not necessarily rbf) certain classes (such as warrior, archer, wiz/witch, shais, etc) how to take care of that and prevent ninjas/kunos from stealth engaging. Flares are used by many people as well.
    Of course it doesn't solve the "issue" if a ninja/kuno is going for a gank at spots like stars end. But then again... stealth classes in all games could be annoying in similar scenarios and people always complained about that. On the other hand a ninja/kuno without stealth feels meh...
    I am grinding kartuga on Arsha a lot atm and can't think of a big issue getting ganked by a stealth class. Gotta admit tho that I was ganking myself a bit here and there on my kuno alt :^)

    Not blaming you here but I believe in 2020 every active PvP player should have learned how to avoid getting block jumped :-P

    That's true, ye. But then again, awk ninja was not in a really horrible state either. Succs just generally are too overtuned atm.
     
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  20. Rekch

    Rekch Krid DarkKnight 62 EU

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    Well I was just pointing out how he said "that it's now at a point where you really show how bad you are if you actually get hit by a stealth engage".

    Like, I mean, how does it show how "bad" you are to get hit by something you didn't even know was coming. Because a ninja stealthing in front of you and then engage you is not a "stealth engage", it's mostly just a dash to get to you, whereas you walking around and getting gaped with no clue as to what is happening is a stealth engage, so seriously how does it show that you are "bad".

    And yes you will die to most ganks if you don't know they are coming, but playing a lot on arsha teach you how to look at minimap and prevent that most of the time (altho it will ofc allways happen). Yes flares are used but lets be real, a lot of my death and a lot of everyone's death in rbf is a ninja standing and patiently waiting while rotating rabam stealth and stealth.

    And tbh I don't really care about revealing them, but I would be happy to have a real mechanic to counter the engage like wow trinket or BnS counter cc. V isn't a good mechanic to counter it even if you can do some pretty good things on people who are not aware of how to use it properly.



    I have **** internet so I get rolledback most of the time in it, but yes dodging it is not that hard if I used ability with no gaps or have better fps than the ninja, what I meant is that you cant deny the fact that a noob will stomp most players he cross playing those classes even if most pvp dedicated players won't get baitedn vast majority of the community will get easier gaped by a **** ninja than...lets say a **** ranger.


    I 100% agree with this.

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    Usually i don't only include the big pvpers because they are not the majority of the population. You can't say something like "no you won't be able to **** on good pvpers while playing this class 2h therefore it is not easy to play" thats a retarded statement, ofc you won't win vs someone who dedicated time to learn matchups with no knowledge. That doesnt change the fact that taking some classes and just learning how to rotate 1 movement combo and 1 damage combo on said classes will make you an ego boosted ape that **** on 99% of players he encounters just because the class is very strong to begin with.
    I'll take a simple example :
    Take a guy give him warrior for 1 hour without giving him any proper training
    Take another guy give him ninja same thing
    Make them fight.
    Ninja will most likely win 99% of the fights.
    It's not the only class, it's not even the easiest to take into hands, but dont ******** me telling me that you are gonna get **** on like there is no tomorow when litteraly every noob rerolled to ninja succ and has been doing fairly good in term of kills. We are not talking fresh reroller vs top tier pvper, because realistically, 99% of people you will encounter are not top tier pvper.

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    I'll see if I can find some VOD of me playing kuno for the first time on trial rbf, I did like 800 points doing kill here and there with almost no clue as to what i was doing, and frankly speaking even after speaking with very good kunos I'm still very bad at the class (mostly movement and protection) that doesn't prevent me from destroying a ton of people in BA just because....it's easy to destroy people who are not good with it.
    Now with a warrior, before learning a bit more in depth almost everyone in BA was no matching me.
     

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