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I did a dangerous thing (tier list)

Discussion in 'PvP' started by okatsu, Oct 24, 2018.

  1. The_Lord

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    The thing with warrior is they have a low skill floor but one of the highest skill ceiling , which means it doesnt take much to be just "good" but with alot of skill you can push that class very far and make it really good
     
  2. LethalAF

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    tamer is the best 1v1 class in the game in the hands of a skilled player.

    If you don't think so you probably haven't fought any good tamers.

    Tamer outclasses ninja in the scenario listed above.
     
  3. The_Lord

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    I wish i could 1v1 a tamer ... theh always 2v1 me
     
  4. Jaeger

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    Thats true. Sometimes my whole combo goes to her pet xD but to be honest a skilled ninja would outplay a tamer. Im a ninja player btw ^^
     
  5. Prim nw

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    he's only 2nd kills eu/na, he can't talk to me yet
     
  6. Yes, tamer’s 2 grabs, iframe burst, excellent linear and dynamic movement, stealth, low cd class buffs and hp regen top tamer over ninja. /s

    Pre-March tamer v ninja at high tier was 50/50. Now there is no question who comes out on top, and it’s not the one who’s damage is hinged on buggy ai.
     
    TheYoda and unange like this.
  7. Prim nw

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    Did u take over Lemon's job or what? stop trying, more than enough ppl already realized tamer is top tier 1v1 while still beiing good 1vx and large scale
     
  8. Must be an EU thing.

    Tell that to NA siege scene.

    Tamer is strong in 1v1, kinda repeating myself here, but it is far from the best in any other scenario. That is not to say it does doesn’t have its uses as I’ve delineated here and in tamer subforum.

    I mean, the main complaint people have with tamer is the pet, and the pet also happens to be one of the main complaints of tamers. I wonder why.
     
    TheYoda and okatsu like this.
  9. The_Lord

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    Main issue with the pet is that you outplay the tamer knock him down or grab then you start your combo while tamer is on the ground and you get cced by the pet ...
     
  10. Boojangles

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    Yea i agree. The tier list should change depending on say a skill slider. So for example for ranger to be the top class, the difficulty should be off the chart. Then say for the ranger to be average the difficulty is around the middle of the road. Ill give another example. If you put wiz a little bit above or at were dk is (in terms of top tier,) then the difficulty will be very low in that instance. You can plot each class in a few different spots but that will change where they are in terms of difficulty. Sad to say but, there are some classes that bad players just should not touch. There are also some classes that highly skilled players can waste time on.

    edit: just noticed the updated chart. Given the assumed level of difficulty (skill) id say ranger is pretty close to where she should be.
     
    #70 Boojangles, Oct 26, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2018
  11. levinano

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    OP should state whether this chart is based on if the player playing said class is:
    A good player
    An average player
    A bad player

    Instead of making 2 more charts, just specify which one applies to the chart or you created.

    This way you don’t have variables like “average player on a good class” or “class is only placed in that tier if the player is ____”
     
  12. okatsu

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    For people who don't play fighting games a tier list considers each character:

    is being played by the same person
    said person has mastery of their character

    this lets you avoid mental play that goes into fighting games and there's no skill gap.
     
  13. Xenon

    Xenon Kallitren Ninja 61 NA

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    This is a 1v1 tier list...
     
  14. Xenon

    Xenon Kallitren Ninja 61 NA

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    What class are you?
     
  15. Wouldn't hurt to read what I was replying to, or any other of my replies in this thread that clearly acknowledges that, but ok.
     
  16. Sawaruna

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    all these talks about tamers lol

    bdo pvp balance is around GEAR 90% skill 10%
    all these nonsense talks about skills means you ain't right there at the top few yet

    tamer is amazing good with 270+ AP, minimum to even make them work is 265ap
    softcap ap is utter trash
    with 270 tier ap and above tamer is a iframe spammer with the ability to 1 shot you with a SA AOE quick skill

    reason why mystic and strikers are op because they require so little gear to work.
    A softcap mystic can 1 combo lets say a softcap tamer, but not vice versa
    with how potions work,resistance working against you and 5 sec cc immune after you get up, if you dont 1combo the enemy but get 1 comboed, you will lose ALOT.
     
  17. Xenon

    Xenon Kallitren Ninja 61 NA

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    Doesn't matter how many times you acknowledge it if you dismiss it.
     
  18. Except I did not. But I understand you don't want to read, just want to post pad.

    Have fun. My last contribution to you.
     
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  19. okatsu

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    I understand where you're coming from but this isn't how a tier list works.

    The tier list states "This is how difficult your character is at the level it's most effective." and "This is how well your character performs when played at this level."
    By "most effective" here I mostly mean efficient. If there is a way that your class can consistently take advantage in a fight and get kills without needing very high character skill, then your class will fall into low difficulty. There are, without a doubt, play styles that can optimize damage and take your character beyond (ergo making the character more difficult for you to play) but as long as they have that method that's consistent and works against another player of equal skill level (we're assuming the skill level is top level) then they can't be perceived to be more difficult.

    You can play your heart out and do a bunch of extra flashy **** with your character but if it yields the same result as if you just did basic things then the fact that you played your own harder way doesn't make the class harder.
    I.E. Just because I try to play Lahn without using her grab at all doesn't increase her difficulty level.
     
    #79 okatsu, Oct 27, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2018
  20. Boojangles

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    that makes sense.

    What ive been thinking is that a static tier list is about 1/3 of whats going on. In other words this tier list is 1 of at least 3 possibilities. The best way i can explain is with a League of Legends reference (i have not played in years so im not current on the meta.) In league an assassin like leblanc was god tier in wood/bronze elo. In silver she was ok but as you went higher she fell down a bit. I know league is team based but i have seen similar things in fighting games like Soul Calibur and Street Fighter.

    What you created is a fine representation of the characters under the specifications you named off. I also believe these parameters will serve to help the most players. In all honesty almost none of us will play on an mlg level. However if we made a tier list and considered an mlg skill set, i can see things shifting around a bit. Now im not suggesting you kill yourself to make a responsive tier list, but i do believe that would be the next step in the evolution of such lists.
     
    okatsu likes this.

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