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I-frames need to be looked at

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Gobarnachta, Oct 23, 2018.

  1. Gobarnachta

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    Currently just some classes have plenty of iframes, namely sorc/kuno/ninja. These are game-breaking when they can be done in as plenty as those classes can.

    Solution would be limiting the iframe by having some global cooldown 10 or 15 sec per iframe and otherwise the skill that would do iframe just gives an SA to the player.

    Another solution could be with the rework of BSR. Let BSR dmg and cc potential to go through iframe with say 50% efficiency, in essence removing iframe concept and making it more like a SA+ than "iframe".

    And I am sure a lot more solutions are there but first thing is to acknowledge that iframe in current PvP meta they have made is from earlier meta where it fit but in current PvP meta it is way way over powered. So please other players give more suggestions and solutions how to fix this and Kakao employees please forward this to the dev-monkeys at Pearl Abyss, thank you!
     
  2. Rayin

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    Another solution would be putting more SA back to some class toolkits and protected CC, not as many as in past, but some.
    Even partial i-frames are fine or a full i-frame on a single skill.
     
  3. thdsm

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    So how would you imagine classes that have no grabs (or even ones with a grab that gets resisted) and unprotected attack skills would deal with for example wizards who can deliver a constant stream of aoe damage?
     
  4. Gobarnachta

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    Wizard casts are super slow and have little range for most of them.. you can use mobility and range and also I did not say everything is gonna be off so what iframe is left or SA.. simply use your speed and brain instead of brainless iframes
    :D
     
  5. Catastigma

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    i-frame on sorc is fine cause when you success a CC again a Sorc is a garanted dead. Sorc is realy squishy. but its not the case for Ninja/kuno


    A simple fix is make that Ninja/kuno receive 25% more damage again other classe.
     
  6. thdsm

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    Wizards still outrange nearly all of the melee classes, and what difference does it make if the casts are slow? You can't damage trade with them, you can't outrange them, and mobility is irrelevant against aoe abilities, so what are you supposed to be limited to one poke every 15 seconds in hopes that they somehow screw up at just the right time and get CC'd?
     
  7. LoganSilver

    LoganSilver LoganSilver Witch 62 NA

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    With how crazy ap scaling has become, you take insane damage through SA and FGs don’t last long. Iframes are essentially king.

    Making iframes less spammable is definitely a good thing. But we can’t do that without making other balance changes. And just making the iframes into SA when used during the cooldown would not be sufficient.

    I agree with the OP’s position that iframes are too much and spammable iframes should not be a possibility. But sorcs, ninjas, and kunos will be very severely weakened if we change the iframes to SAs and without a buff elsewhere in their kits, the classes will go from top tier to useless.


    It’s difficult to balance BDO due to the way they have designed class kits. Witchards can never be good at 1v1 as long as grabs are a thing given the slow cast times and the ease of catching them out. Similarly, it’s difficult to nerf Witchards in large scale without making them useless outside of something like a utility nerf (PA). But nerfing PA will make castle sieges so much harder. Basically, any change has unintended consequences. And balancing one aspect of a class could break something else. In a similar vein, while nerfing iframes is likely needed, we have to be careful to not make the classes useless by nerfing iframes without tweaking other aspects.


    TLDR: I agree iframes need to be toned down, but am not sure how to implement such a change. Just making iframes into SA when used on cooldown will likely make iframe reliant classes very weak.
     
  8. WhySoSeeryus

    WhySoSeeryus Wizard 63 EU

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    it is very strange that a caster class outranges nearly all of the melee classes, we agree on that. it should outrange all of them - period. :D

    casts are so slow, nearly all of the melee classes can often be on the wizard(and grappling him) virtually before he finishes casting one skill.
     
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  9. WhySoSeeryus

    WhySoSeeryus Wizard 63 EU

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    ill just copy paste what i said on the other topic, could be a startng point for some change there:

     
  10. thdsm

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    Oh don't get too excited, the "nearly" is there just to leave room for hybrid classes like ranger or dk, as well as the minor poke skills on some other classes such as sorc.

    As for the second part, not all of the melee classes have grabs and also wizards can build for grab resist without giving up too much, which can seriously screw over the rest, especially if we pretend that OP's suggestion is in action and nobody has iframes to disengage.
     
  11. WhySoSeeryus

    WhySoSeeryus Wizard 63 EU

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    what exactly is without giving up too much, if you are facing classes with grapple resist pierce skills/passives? 7 seconds in between tps is a lifetime vs them.
     
  12. thdsm

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    That's only two classes though, against the rest is really works quite well.
     
  13. WhySoSeeryus

    WhySoSeeryus Wizard 63 EU

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    it is not only 2 classes, some have certain skills that let them pierce grapple resist as well.
     
  14. Gobarnachta

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    Grapple, even tho I also feel it is a bit over powered and always has been, is outside of this topic so I won't comment more on that and would ask that you keep this discussion pointed towards the iframes.

    You fail to mention "melee" class called Zerker there aswell as those you mention.. they all have better (more dmg/faster/etc) long range abilities than wizard casts are.

    Why are we arguing about wizards or any single class anyhow... they have the old paper, rock and scissor going with their class-balance anyhow for instance wizards's being scissor and striker/mystic the rock etc. What the topic is about is mechanic that beats everything and since everything else was nerfed and that was left untouched it is out of balance with rest of the system. Now please give some creative feedback on iframes or don't take part in this thread. Thank you!
     
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  15. Irini

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    You can't just compare defensive i-frames of a sorc (no damage, no cc) with the offensive iframes from a ninja (protected damage and cc skills, grab)

    An iframing sorc does no damage and is purely evading until its stamina is gone (sorc has just 1-2 protected offensive skills), while a ninja (and in some cases a kuno as well) can throw out tons of damage while in constant SA/Iframe and does not need to play on the edge of stamina limitation as well.
     
    #15 Irini, Oct 24, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2018
  16. Muhaha

    Muhaha Valkyrie 62 NA

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    They could just bring the other classes up to par. Like give some classes enough iframes/SA to be on par, or allow other classes to utilize what they have.
    Like Witard for instance, let them be able to cancel skills with shift+a/d. And/Or, let them hot key their second tele with a timer after first tele or as a sec tele in general. So they could fully utilize their teleport, it wouldn't be no sorc teleport, but would allow them to keep up with all the speedy classes better than they can now.
     
    #16 Muhaha, Oct 24, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2018
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  17. Lynk

    Lynk Origins Mystic 61 EU

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    I cringe every time i see people complain about classes they don't know anything about. First of, ninja and kuno iframe got nerfed a good 8 months ago so you can barely call it iframe anymore because it's almost fully SA. Besides kuno doesn't have a single fully protected SA skill that will CC you, ninja only has one if im not mistaken. The same goes for sorc, she literally cannot CC you unless she uses unprotected skills. Also whoever told you they don't have to deal with stamina issues probably never played the class

    You also seem tot justify wizard SA and damage and call iframes easy and nobrain while misstiming one 0.1 seconds will mean the difference between life and death.

    The only class which i would give away pass on if you would call the iframes broken would be lahn but then again her damage got nerfed to the ground.
     
  18. thdsm

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    You haven't earned any "creative feedback" because you have yet to present a good argument for why iframes are too strong in the current meta (so far your point boils down to "game to hard QQ, ples nerf ayyfram") and need to be changed to begin with. The rest of your drivel is therefore irrelevant, because you are proposing solutions to a non-issue. And even if it was relevant, the solutions are absolutely worthless, because it will make classes which can output a constant stream of aoe or ranged damage god tier. If you want some creative feedback, put a little more effort than two minutes worth into composing a good OP.
     
    #18 thdsm, Oct 24, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2018
  19. AZzalor

    AZzalor EU

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    tl;dr
    I can't have things my class doesn't need in their role, so other classes can't have things they need for their role because i can't learn how to play around it.

    Nah, but seriously...Have you ever tried playing those classes, especially Sorc. If you take her iframes away, she will be dead instantly and completly unplayable. Kuno, has exactly TWO iframes, one that is ~0.1 seconds with sa at the beginning and end and 1 second cd so you can't even spam it but be careful when to use it (and then get fkd by desync) and one iframe that has an 18 second cd...wow.
    Ninja has actually 2 more iframes on top of those. The one in awakening is totally fine and definitly needs no changing at all, the one in preawa could use a little increase of cd, but it's not gamebreaking.

    Overall a git gud issue on your side.
     
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  20. Foggen

    Foggen Musa 64 NA

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    I would support Wizards being able to cancel out of cast animations if the cast animations weren't SA.
     
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