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if this game went sub based? as in needing to pay a monthly sub to play

Discussion in 'General Gameplay' started by MMoNoob, Sep 7, 2019.

  1. LightningFFXIII-4

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    If BDO went sub based it won't change a thing. The only change would be everyone paying 15 bucks a month and the value pack is removed from the pearlshop.

    There will be ppl (mostly players outside the US) that can't afford the 15 dollars/month (lol) so they will be crying on the forums (o well) but they'll get over it.

    At least then we wont have these free loaders taking up server bandwith against paying costumers.
     
  2. Amirite

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    I played games that was sub based and they work out fine with good updates etc. Personally, I wouldn't mind a monthly sub for a game, as long it delivers what I believe and want to pay for it. In the music industry there are also sub based media, where you pay each month for have access to the new music, TV, Stream etc. So this type of payment is actually what we do already for many kind of other media things.

    • would less people play?
    • would we get more updates and quicker content etc.?
    • would the company make more money?
    • what would happen if we the game became sub based?

    The questions you ask, might be more on your own personally view of the game overall.
    I personally think that we get a good amount of updates and new content weekly, that's why I am still here. The time between before we get the updates or new content is another question where there can be 1.000 answers from the players base here.

    I don't think the sub based concept is Asian game style concept, they after all introduce it for the Western World, as I remember it (Aion and other games) to p2w.

    Today, almost every game say they are "free to play" and that's where it goes wrong, because they are really not free if you want the full package.

    Sometimes, I just think people put way to much energy in discussion about BDO, whatever it's p2w,f2p, etc.

    I do however, think that if something really is wrong, it should be brought up here in the forum, that's the only place we players can stand together.
     
    #82 Amirite, Sep 11, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2019
  3. Kauni

    Kauni Archer 62 EU

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    You don't lose anything, what are you talking about? If you don't play (and pay) nothing happens, just like in BDO. Same goes in BDO, if you don't pay you can't progress and you have to pay a lot. If you would start BDO right now it's over 16k pearls aka 160$ (4,5k value pack + 1 costume 2,9k, + 5x900 pets + weight 2,7k + 1450 slots which is not max both) instantly... depends how fast you wanna progress. Meanwhile a 1 year sub in WoW is 111$. Even if you want to remove something like a costume you are still with over 100$ in and we are talking about cheap & low investment with trash pets, not max weight and not max slots + only 3 months VP and no flute for the mount.

    If you don't pay in BDO you will slower your progress by a lot and will not be able to compete with other players who paid for long time.
    Sub version has same progress for everyone without paying anything on top.

    If they die why is WoW still there? Why is WoW able to bring classic which was a trash game for nowadays standards and why do millions of people play it?
    Games with sub business model do not die because of the business model... they do die because the game is being trash.

    1? That's 1 more than you can show me. BDO is dead and there is no other game without a sub fee that is not dead.

    What are you trying to say here? Did you reach anything "hardcore" in BDO?
     
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  4. Kauni

    Kauni Archer 62 EU

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    Do it if you have that much time.

    Do it... what's the issue?
    Or you mean you don't want to pay the 15$/month sub fee while being afk?
    What could you do in the game nowdays at its state if you already can't afford 15$/month??? Or you "playing" it just for afk fishing?
     
    #84 Kauni, Sep 11, 2019
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 11, 2019
  5. NoisyBoy

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    Well i get your point, but i prefer the safe enhancement before roulettes. So if someone is stupid enough to spend in this game...
     
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  6. zhagsten

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    Maybe he's not a charity, and won't give money to devs that aren't able to give more to play actively?
    Why don't you subscribe to 1000 Twitch channels you don't watch most of the time? Wow, move your broke ass if you can't afford it.

    Any sane person knows that being able to pay for something doesn't make paying for it the logical next step. But here we're in BDO, where some people unable to control their expenses are trying to justify and relativize the stupid things they do. Incapable of evaluating what anything is worth. PA says "I'm a rich Korean princess but the government is holding my fortune, can you please send $5,000 to help me, I'll +1 a couple variables for you on my game" and a horde of mugus start building psychological justifications like "well, it's a hobby, I mean, pilotting an airplane is more expensive and it's just fuel getting vaporized, right?"

    I would enjoy seeing people tossing their money so stupidly if it allowed me to have a good game with a great experience at a normal price. But instead, it cripples the game with designs to make the mugu pay.

    And don't make me laugh with a subscription model for BDO, we all know that most people wouldn't even touch it first (bUt WoRLd oF wArcRAfT!), and that it wouldn't stop them one minute to put the same crap on the cash shop with the same crippling designs to break your knees and sell you crutches.
     
  7. Kauni

    Kauni Archer 62 EU

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    Because we do not have sub fee and devs are busy developing cheesy trash to milk the community. They have no time to work on the game because of cheap plebs.

    He wants to play the game, don't he? Why would I pay random people who I don't know, not watching and not interested in? He is interested in the game tho?
    Bad analogy, try again.

    What's the point? The p2w elements are still here. Why are there here? Because of poor business model.

    At the current state BDO can't introduce a sub fee, that's not how it could/would work.
    AoC is gonna be released with a sub fee for example and the reasons here are obvious af. Even tho the game won't be as good as it could due to bad engine it will still be a way better game than BDO untill something good gets released.
     
  8. zhagsten

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    You skipped "most of the time". That's similar. He clearly says he's not playing most of the time. Unless AFK is playing, and I'm just an old man not following up with the times.
    When people aren't playing as much as they feel $15/month is worth, it's not a question of having a job or not. Same for a Twitch sub: if you're not watching the stream often, it's not a question of $5 being cheap or having a pay that makes it trivial. It just become a questionable expense.

    The non-sub model allows to keep players on the verge of quitting, particularly if you are heavy with login rewards and "stay connected 5h" rewards.

    BDO started with a B2P + non-P2W cash shop. It was working, you can check quarterly reports back then. Then they added more and more P2W. What would have stopped them from doing the same on top of a subscription model? They would have tried.
    I'm not saying it wouldn't have killed the game, but it's irrelevant. Dead game or game working on a sub + awful cash shop, what's the difference?
     
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  9. Baumkuchen♡

    Baumkuchen♡ Ranger 60 NA

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    Spending....monthly money on bdo...? You're not obliged, it's all convenience
     
  10. Kauni

    Kauni Archer 62 EU

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    It did not. It started like this only on NA/EU only.
    They did introduce P2W because of the quarterly reports. The profit was not enough.
    Because they wanted BDO to be the same on all regions and it includes the business model which they didn't want to change since it would include a major pearl shop change on top. Is it smart? No. But that was their philosophy.
    No p2w shop + sub fee would have kept the game alive on NA/EU. Asians do not understand western mentality, we do not like gambling progression in video games. They also do not understand proper business models since p2w is a common thing in asian countries and people do not really mind it. I'd almost say they prefer it.

    Edit: I do not comment on your twitch thingy cause it's just a bad example and is not working here. Take netflix at least to compare it to the current topic.
     
    #90 Kauni, Sep 11, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2019
  11. zhagsten

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    And that's exactly the same. If you don't watch Netflix much anymore, do you want to continue your subscription? Just because you can doesn't mean you will.

    So you agree with me. They wouldn't have kept it sub only or sub + non-p2w cash shop. They would have gone full blown sub + p2w because "the profit was not enough".

    What's ridiculous in this topic is the number of "if" you need to make BDO a good game with a good business model.
     
  12. Kauni

    Kauni Archer 62 EU

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    Yes, I do have a netflix sub and sometimes I only watch it like max one time a week. I had months where I didn't watch it even once.

    They could have made it sub + non p2w cash shop for enough profit. They just didn't because they are dumb and greedy.

    Of course there are a lot of "if"s otherwise that would mean BDO is great as it is.
     
  13. Vanadiel

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    Like I said in my second reply, it is all about priorities.
     
  14. Vanadiel

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    The Netflix argument is flawed. If you drive a vehicle, you pay insurance, but that does not mean you drive it each day.
    By that argument you should only pay when you drive your vehicle and be able to cancel on the days you do not drive your vehicle.
    However, that is not the way it works and if you want to drive a vehicle you pay the insurance premiums. If you cannot afford the insrurance premiums, than you have your priorities wrong.

    Like I said, it is all about priorities.
    Game subs are in the range of $15/month.
    If you cannot afford it, your priorities should not evolve around the fees for a game.
    If you can afford it, pay the fee.
     
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  15. NoisyBoy

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    Its better a sub model than a pushed p2w/ptc? Yes
    What would be the best? A cash shop with only mounts/outfits and visual things without interfering with the gameplay.
    Really just look at fornite/lol (And im not talking about his community/balance or even the game) most cash earnt year after year without obliging you to pay a single dime or making better stuff for €€€.
     
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  16. zhagsten

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    No, I'm not saying you should have a model where you only pay when you play. That doesn't exist, that's irrelevant and you are way off with your comparison to car insurance. Because of how much driving a car costs (licence, purchase, maintenance, insurance, fuel...), more and more people who live in large cities with developped public transportation don't even pass a driving exam. That's probably something that most of USA can't even comprehend, but welcome to reality. That's how strong it is.

    So for a video game you don't play that much anymore, which isn't nearly close to the use of a car, of course people will unsubscribe and uninstall faster. They won't pay just to collect daily rewards. That's stupid, but BDO has attracted a population of players so far away from reality that it's not even surprising to hear that kind of non-sensical justifications to pouring money down the drain.
     
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  17. Kauni

    Kauni Archer 62 EU

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    Indeed, that's stupid. The afk progress model was a bad thing in BDO from day one. Everyone knows BDO is a game that needs every little bit of server capacity meanwhile most afk people do not contribute to the game and/or community at all.
    This kind of people damages the game even twice... not that they barely contribute to the game/community, they also help PA to have fake numbers for the player base which gives them a sign that the game is running well.

    Even tho I understand that people want at least a bit of progress while not playing the game cause they still hoping for the game to improve but while doing that they achieve the opposite. The devs would maybe start to work on the actual issues when they see the numbers dropping in the player base.
     
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  18. robertthebard

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    I can't even begin to count the number of hours I've "wasted", by your definition then. So, what is it that you can look at 2 years down the road from going out to dinner? How about movie tickets, or just going to the movies in general? How much money/time did I waste in Aion, since I played from the second closed beta, and my sub was active when it went F2P? What about my extensive catalog of SP games? My Xbox has 1.5 TBs of storage, and it's at 50%, and I haven't installed all the purchased games I have. My PC only has 1TB right now, and it's 90% full, some MMOs, some SP, but of that 90%, the vast majority of it is games, and again, not all the games I own are currently installed, I had to uninstall some not too long ago to make some space because I can't just go buy another HDD or SSD.

    You see, that time isn't wasted. I bought the games/paid the subs and played them. If I log in for 2 hours a day for 2 weeks, I've already made that money back in entertainment value. I got Greedfall the other day, and already have over 20 hours in. If I calculate that at my previous job's hourly wage, I could buy it 3 more times and still have money left for popcorn and Pepsi, gas in my car, and a night on the town. If you truly believe that time spent pursuing your hobby is wasted, then you have the wrong hobby.

    Well, that's certainly condescending. I suppose it's because the US doesn't have large cities like New York, or Los Angeles that you believe this? Oh, wait... Your premise is flawed. There are people in the US that rely on public transportation, and not all of it is because they can't afford a car, it's because they wouldn't have anywhere to park it if they did have one, or because the fees to have parking would run more than what the routine maintenance on a car would cost, just to park it. It's amazing to me how much people that know nothing about life in the US like to talk about life in the US...
     
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  19. Lord_Xenon

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    Didn't Eve changed to FTP with paywall in 2016? At least that's what I read about it in the internet. Care to explain?

    At that point you make yourself a running joke. Your own argument crush you. And again using cash shop promotion to support your 'point'.
    It doesn't matter if I have an account or not, when I can't play. And until I pay I can't. While in other games I can play even while not paying.
    And 1 year? That's nothing. Come back with 3+ years at minimum. Except you don't want to play a MMO so long, then you should better look at an SP title. And oh wait, subs cost you the more you play! In BDO I don't have to pay to play. I can play as I want, not tied to my wallet. And I'm not on the mercy of devs f* up. When they do in BDO, I still can play but I don't pay for the trash while in subs I either have to stop total or pay for their trash decisions.

    I asked a few of my guildmates that hyped the classic why they do and they explained it. I was then wtf. They call this trash good? So I can't give you an answer why such a trash is hyped up and played. It's like they want for BDO to remove all Valencia/Drieg/Kama content and revert the game back to it's state of 2016/7/whatever.

    To the 1: What measure/comparison? Because for me it's more like 0:5 for subs vs. non-sub model Wow failed as sub as they bring classic, which is questionable. Either WoW in it's current state suck(guildmates hype classic) so it needs a 'new' game, or they try to develop another 'game' so those that don't want the current one aren't lost mean it lose slowly its base. Else why bring out the same 'game'?

    To the hardcore: Another proof of you being a running joke. You start what you need to invest in BDO to 'play' and then you ask what I reach as 'hardcore' thing. Progression seem for you 'hardcore', when you need tools to ease it up. Else you wouldn't need it. And for the excuse of just having things handy --> paying for being retarded/lazy. Same for paying for subs without using it.
     
  20. Kauni

    Kauni Archer 62 EU

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    Oh really? Can you? Come EU show me how you can play vs me. Oh wait, you can't? You prolly play to gather flowers and afk stuff wasting our server capacity...

    Again, you don't play. I spent in my 3,5 years more on BDO than on all games I have played in my entire life. I do not even count my 3k+ € PC upgrades that I had to buy just to play BDO mass PvP without throwing up.
    In 1 year of BDO I paid more than any sub fee game would cost me for 10+ years of playing.

    You have no clue how much time and/or money you need to actually play BDO competitive. Now compare the amount of money you'd need to sub games to play competitive. Oh right... it doesn't change.

    Classic is trash for nowadays standards as I said. The reason why people play that trash over BDO is just because BDO is even more trash. People can say about WoW whatever they like but the game has 2462178461 times more content than BDO. Already a huge reason to play it over BDO, even if it's trashy classic.

    WoW is 15+ years old lol... At any state it had several millions more active players than BDO ever will. WoW did not fail. Neither did subs.
    They bring classic because they have no idea anymore how to improve the game after 15+ years. So they bring something to milk people and people asked for it. It's a good move for the company in any way.
    BDO on the other hand does not only have horrible business model it also has zero content and improvement on the game whatsoever. PvP content? 1 NW a day if you don't have a region and otherwise 1 siege a week? Great PvP content, really nice. If you come with RBF, BA or OW PvP, you should slap yourself as hard as you can just for thinking of it.

    Ok now you have proven yourself as a literal fool.

    If you really think people use 5 pets because they are being retarded or lazy then I have serious doubts if you ever played BDO. Same goes for all the other stuff I listed.
    You have proven in many aspects that you have no idea about MMOs, business models and especially BDO.
    Feel free to talk to me again when you have been a member of a #1 PvP guild for long time or a finalist of an official PvP tournament. Untill that keep playing your trash, dead f2p because you are too clueless and cheap not wanting a good game with decent business model.
     
    #100 Kauni, Sep 11, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2019
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