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Issues with Open World PVP and suggestions to fix (karmabombing again)

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Tansie, Jan 28, 2018.

  1. Celinetta

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    You forgot a really simple solution;

    Outfarm them; this isn't even a problem regardless of your damage output. If you know the timing for spawns and where to be you can be killing pulls as they spawn. You may like the mindless farming but someone who can farm better should get the spot. I don't ask them to leave, I don't ask permission, I don't flag pvp to kill them, and I don't stop if they kill me. I simply outfarm people via paying attention. So the problem you are having is easily solved; farm better.

    The game is competitive in multiple ways. One of these ways is grinding locations / farming, money making etc. You want it? You have to fight for it. You have no "right" to any location in the game. You do, however, have a right to fight for it. You can pvp and suffer your Karma dropping. You can ask if you so please. You can invite them. You can just be better than them. I can't tell you how many times I've had someone come into a spot I'm farming and try to claim in. I don't pay them any mind and they make no impact on my methods because, oh yeah, I've been farming in mmo's for over a decade. One tried and true method; outfarm them.

    You have 4 people and one person comes in and messes it up? Are you serious? One random person can ruin your entire spot? Camp the spawn locations, learn the respawn times, remember your killing "rotation" so you stay ahead. Don't be running from one side of the map to the other to kill one pull. Each pull should be within reach of your next so that you can chain pull. This is basic 101 farming/grinding. If one person can come in and mess up your whole rotation then your rotation is poorly planned and you need to rethink it.
     
  2. Julohr

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    I am pretty sure those users who crycry on forums about karmabombing and suggests numerous 'dream-solutions' already know how to do to avoid them. I don't believe they are dumb just they don't want to follow a move. Someone is annoying you - you can't krav-maga his face as in real life you would do (I hope) ...
     
  3. Findubar

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    Learn To Share (TM)
     
  4. Julohr

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    Nah dude it's their spots their mobs lmao.
     
  5. Tetrinox

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    So you say you are fed up of karmabombing and yet admit that you do it yourself.

    You are part of the problem.
     
  6. Julohr

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    Indeed.
    1rst I will challenge / duel pvp because it's a open-pvp-game and you can only improve with player interaction.
    2nd if the player is undergeared or consider that we go naked just that I PK him I'll move cause I'll not waste my time on it.
    3rd if I just want to pvp anyone I'll do it and nothing in TOS avoid me to go in contested area to defend / take or whatever.

    But for sure if the player is decent or challenging I will continue.
    And this is not a problem this is a open-pvp where you can kill players on contested area.

    What's the issue here ? Tell me.
     
  7. Tansie

    Tansie Ranger 62 EU

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    Oh please as if half the GMs even know what they are talking about... Some of them don't even have characters above level 56 and they said that the way you get 500 energy is by sweeping chimneys ffs... They don't play the game and they definately don't PVP.

    And yeah the open world pking was designed so that people can contest over spots.. You used to lose 1% in pvp if you died.. Whether you were the person who flagged or not. The problem was people were kiling afkers. So they got rid of the 1% loss. But they also kept the super harsh punishments for going red. The punishments were not as bad back then because 1% loss wasn't much.. Gems were annoying to replace and losing enhance was obviously horrible too.. But back then you only had +15 gear at max.... Now you can lose TETs if you go negative karma.. So very little people will think that is worth it..

    I'm sorry but this IS a pvp game..... It was advertised as a pvp game and designed to be a competitive pvp game.. But they dropped the ball and I'm honestly sick of this carebear community and ready to move to the next game that comes along. A:IR is looking like a good choice so far I just hope kakao doesn't ruin it again by listening to the minority of players...
     
    Phalan likes this.
  8. Joungf

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    There is a game mechanic and rules that every adult / mature player accepted. Why don't you also accept and stop crying. I also accepted that I can not get the best gear and get killed / PKed. It is ok. I have learned to deal with PvP. AND I do not grief, karma bomb and cry.
     
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  9. Tansie

    Tansie Ranger 62 EU

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    If you don't karma bomb, grief or cry then you are one of the very few.. Because 90% of the community does these days. I don't always win either.. In the places I grind my gear is average at best. It's actually quite funny because I'm around 480gs and consider this bad because the people I fight against are usually higher. Yet most people will be impressed by that gear.. They don't realise that I don't grind at places like sausans though....

    I'm honestly just fed up of the ridiculous rules and mechanics in place. No other PVP game has stupid rules like this for PK. I would happily be perma red if I didn't lose 1% exp, gems and gear enhances when I die. The punishments are too strict and if they made them less severe then you'd see a lot more negative karma players. I'm not saying that there shouldn't be any punishments.. But they are way too strict right now and it just doesn't make the "bandit" life viable. Like I said, look at other PVP games like archeage because they did it right.. It's very similar to what we have right now but with less punishments and it worked really well.
     
  10. Garryfre

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    Well, I'd rather share the spot and possibly have it so that if you hit a monster they can't be effected by other players outside your group while they are in combat with you. Last time, two players claimed the entire Shultz zone as their own and chased me around, finally killing me over and over again. I could see a group of four claiming it but not two, and even then that's a stretch. I'd rather have the setup I mentioned in the first sentence of this post than the shytshow we have now.
     
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  11. Wyvinters

    Wyvinters Berserker NA

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    Advertising the game as a pvp game was a blatant lie.
    The game is a PvE with open world PvP = PvX.

    The game is not PURELY PvP. What are you doing 80% of the time?
    Grinding silver for gear, tell me how that constitutes as "PvP" in your head.
    If this game was a "PvP" game, lifeskilling wouldn't exist, people would get more rewards based purely off pvp,
    you could loot people you kill and steal their stuff, there would be more battlegrounds for pvp, what the hell is Savage Rift doing in a pvp game?

    Tell me what everyone is grinding towards....Node Wars? (Some people can't even do it, I wonder why)
    The path towards it, is definitely not PvP.
    Can you attain anything by PvPing from the get - go? No.

    Why must I PvE in a PvP game.
    PUBG is PvP. DotA and LoL is PvP.
    Counterstrike is PvP. Overwatch is PvP.

    Grinding at Sausans for a week IS NOT PVP.
    Yes, I'm taking your definition of the game literally because you worded it that way.
    The game has only 2 modes that are different for pvp = RBF and Node Wars.
    SWTOR even has more PvP than this game.

    Open world pvp doesn't make this game a pvp game. That would mean WoW pvp servers make it a pvp game. I'm sorry to burst bubbles but the majority of players complaining were PvErs getting into the "Open world PvP" scene and getting mega butthurt and salty because someone beat the living hell out of them.

    True PvPers don't give a rats arse and would exploit the poorly designed system to grief others.
    The game is a joke for proper PvPers and isn't even hardcore, it's pathetic. Something like "Life is Feudal" the game or even Runescape Wilderness was more hardcore because of the realistic risk.
    Sadly, its no benefit to anyone and is just there to waste time for everyone. If I told you there was 5 million dollars on the ceiling and advertised it, I'm pretty sure you'd be gullible and ignorant enough to believe me.
     
    #31 Wyvinters, Jan 29, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2018
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  12. Tansie

    Tansie Ranger 62 EU

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    Originally you could loot people if you killed them in PVP.. But during CBT in KR this was changed.. Which I do actually think was a good decision since watching your progress disappear in front of you isn't exactly fun and wouldn't fit with this game well at all. They had a PVP system that was like the L2 one though and that was the original concept and direction for the game. It used to be a lot more hardcore but then people cried about it and things were changed to what it is now.. Which is just full of cry babies and people who get butthurt because they died in a 1v1 and lost nothing from it lol.

    Also, yeah it's not a "100%" PVP game..... Ofc it isn't.. It's a Korean MMO lol.. But it was advertised to be "PVP orientated" and have open world PVP where you can kill other players for whatever reason you like.. The only true end game imo is siege/node wars.. There are no PVE dungeons or leaderboards for PVE.. So let me ask you, why are you playing this game and improving your gear if you don't want to PVP? I'm not sure what exactly your purpose in this game is? They should have given more incentive for meaningful PVP, like let people steal trade packs (which was the original concept as well).
     
  13. Wyvinters

    Wyvinters Berserker NA

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    Subjectively, I have fun karma-bombing people and beating them up outta the spots I'm grinding around.
    The drip-fed progression in this game is masochistic in a sense that it takes so much time to achieve something once you hit the 400+ GS mark and the initial goal is to get around 500GS for the requirements of Node Wars ( That I have little to no interest in, particularly for this game ).

    I enjoy the combat and graphics of the game. Dislike a whole lot of everything else because of the missed opportunity to create a better game with this combat system. Hmm.... I also like watching (but not partaking in) guilds burn down to the ground and people primitively fight over each other because of the heavy amounts of toxic drama that revolves around guild politics and the slack node war system / guild system.

    "But we were friends!" Girl 1
    "YOUR LEADERSHIP SOX, IMMA REK YUR GUILD AND MAKE YOU DISBAND" Mentally-ill Girl 2
    "GET YOUR POPCORN! SODAS! FRENCH FRIES! ALL HERE!" - Me.
    As an example. The game is working as intended though, this was the whole purpose. It technically gets it right with the brutality of a fantasy medieval game cause people were twofaced.

    That's just me though, I'm waiting (much like you I would assume) for a better game to come out that gets all this right.
    Something to up the stakes and quality of the combat that is no doubt great in this game and the graphics.
    Until then, yeah...I might be stuck with this because there really is nothing better right now. At least BDO will be a stepping stone for better games....
    here's hoping... I might play A:IR too because Bluehole Studios is behind it, dudes that made TERA.
     
  14. Tansie

    Tansie Ranger 62 EU

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    I stopped reading after like the first sentence because I wanted to just face palm x) But then I saw you mention A:IR further down and gave it a read...

    I must admit.. I've karma bombed too but it's almost always to keep a spot rather than take one. I've actually tried declaring on a guild before and not been able to, so I've taken some gear off and flagged up.. Let them kill me so they think that they are stronger... Then if they declare on me I put my gear back on and wreck them.. Or they will just cry and call me a karma bomber, which is funny since if I killed them then and they came back then I'm sure I'd cry too.. I'm just fed up of this being the way you get spots now.. I would rather win or lose my spot the fair way instead of playing this stupid karma bombing game of who has the most patience.

    The requirement for node wars is definately not 500gs though.. T1 guilds have requirements as low as 420.. I'm at 480 right now which are the requirements for my potato siege guild (we do balenos). It's funny though because most people think I'm super strong when they see me or hear my gearscore... Yet when I'm against the other guilds at the same strength as my guild.. I'm pretty sure I'm weak/average at best. I'm on EU so maybe things are a bit more hardcore on NA.. IDK but yeah.. Top tier guilds like Enemy only have a 480 gearscore requirement XD

    But yeah I feel the same way about the missed opportunity... It could be a lot better and had so much potential.. But it really is not the "PVP" game that a lot of people wanted.

    The politics and backstabbing is annoying when you're in the guild... And I think the guilds/node war system could be better... but honestly the drama itself doesn't bother me much. I came from a pretty hardcore PVP guild in Archeage (VoTF) and their image was extrememly important to them.. If someone backstabbed then they would ****ing feel the wrath XD If one person pissed someone off then you could expect a huge GvG fight out of the blue with the officers screaming at everyone to get there RIGHT NOW and fight for our honour XD XD

    I'm also waiting for A:IR though.. Super hyped for it and just hoping Kakao doesn't **** it up.
     
  15. Rayin

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    The problem is that people are ignorant and triggered about issues and categorize others based on what they like: if you like more PvE, you CAN'T like to do PvP from time to time.
    If you're a PvP Enthusiast you CAN'T PvE from time to time.
    If you love to combine both of things, you CAN'T and you're often associated to the most hated group. In this case that group is the Sociopaths ones as for the majority if they see you testing something in arena and not on a spot making minced meat of someone, then you must be some kind of Paladin with a shiny armor that spares the weaklings and fight against the injustices of this world.

    Valencia 6 is often used as counter argument, but why whoever doesn't have 520+ GS should go there from time to time? does it makes you a real PvP'er if you go there willingly to fight someone even if you want to grind in peace a bit? and if you have 520+ GS and play a FOTM, does this makes you a real PvP'er if you can keep your spot against several targets when clearly is faulty design and class balance?

    There are no real incentives to go in Valencia 6 and i know it as first because when i went there with my War and i found a ranger grinding at Nagas, he said to me "Please, i used my 200% buff, i'm almost done, let me be". Following the logic of these people i should've slained that guy when in fact i was the only one who wanted to PvP. He may have been more geared than me or more skilled, i'll never know, but still i did him a courtesy and i left because i got that he wasn't there to PvP.
    As i had no incentive, i had no reason to slain him just for my "fun". But i guess that even with an incentive i wouldn't have done so.
    Still, if there was a reward, a token system, a ranking system or whatever you can come up with, being in Valencia 6 would make much more sense.

    What is the reward for PvP'ing in Valencia 6? being able to contest a spot? yeah, for a small amount of players that doesn't consider the "inbetween" tier, players that can generally defend themselves and most likely can't one shot people most of the time, unless they go at Hexe Sanctuary to kill some fresh newbie that has just reached 50.
    Also, even if you're able to kill anyone in your spot what's the deal to do so if they can come back over and over again and disrupt you? or if the fight is matched but the other doesn't want to stop because is the "PvP channel", how can a suggestion such "Go Valencia 6" help me to grind there?

    The best way to play this game right now is to join the grief squad with a top tier PvE class and overfarm whoever is on your sight, accordingly to "forum community" meta that's the best deal. You don't get to play the class you like the most or PvP with the rightful formula Risk Vs Reward, you must do what it takes in order to being disruptive in any possible way, even with the chat if you feel the need to do so.
    Being passive aggressive over an in-game problem and then go full aggressive on forum to strengthen your point, be pro PvP or pro PvE, that's the new meta in BDO.
     
    #35 Rayin, Jan 29, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2018
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  16. Arithin

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    The solution to karma bombing isn't any you listed. It's going bandit.

    For part time bomber/karma whiners like the op you eventually get PvP out of them. They'll refuse to fight if they feel they can come out behind. You being bandit gives them confidence.

    For low geared players it's the fastest way to get them to move on or try to PvP back. Once they find out that nearly no cares if you're red and even fewer will attempt to push you out for them. Just think of them as the same as op, but less experienced. Not scum like people in this thread paint them. Just folks who dislike to have to manage any downside, no matter how core.
     
  17. Mortia

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    Once again, there is no such thing as karma bombing.

    The only person in control of your karma is you. If you choose to flag you choose to lower your karma. No-one makes you do it, there isn't some karma fairy that auto flags you when someone is near.

    Your choices are go red, selectively flag, or don't flag at all. You can actually only get rid of people by going red or by out farming them. Selective flagging is pointless if they just come back.

    Generally i have had most success with out farming people - they wont hang around long for jack all xp or drops. Plus, i'll be honest, i don't think i'm good enough to go perma red. Theres always V6 as an option too.
     
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  18. Tansie

    Tansie Ranger 62 EU

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    I would happily go perma red for the rest of my time on bdo if the punishments weren't so harsh. Losing 1% for each pvp death, as well as gems and enhances if you die to PVE.... I'm sorry but that's ridiculous and not worth the risk just at the chance of grindimg peacefully. I say "chance of grinding peacefully" because honestly I am an average player at best, at least at the places that I grind. Sometimes I can absolutely wreck a person who comes into the rotation.. But most times I can't do a single thing to them. Despite that, I would still go red and deal with punishments. If they were less severe and something like super long death timers were in place instead (for the negative karma guy only).. I'm talking like 10 mins for a death... Then I would leave if I couldn't kill someone because sitting around for 10 minutes and wasting my own time over and over... Yeah no thanks.... But watching my progress disappear in front of my eyes is definately not fun. Then as well as that you make karma family shared so that you can't just swap to a negative karma alt.
     
  19. Tansie

    Tansie Ranger 62 EU

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    Yeah but going negative karma really isn't an option unless you don't care about your progress.. The penalties are way too strict right now.. Otherwise I would happily be negative karma all of the time and have to deal with the punishments for that. But losing 1% every time you die is not worth it when it takes hours to get that at 61. I do try to just out farm people but honestly it's such a shitty band aid fix... It's much more effective to just change channel and push someone else out by karmabombing them.. Doesn't mean it isn't a shitty thing to do.. V6 isn't an option either tbh.. No one WANTS to PVP when they are trying to grind... People only go to V6 if they are looking for PVP.. Honestly if they want to give more reason to go to V6 and promote incentive for PVP there, then they should give it bonus combat/skil exp and loot drop chance.. You'd see a lot more people go there to try and contest. While they are at it... Bring some sort of bountry system on V6 too.. Then I'd be much more likely to go there.
     
  20. Tansie

    Tansie Ranger 62 EU

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    Pretty much nailed it right on the head and explained it far better than I did. PVP channel should have never even been added imo.. It serves no purpose. The reason they brought it into the game was as a little "band aid" fix.. But there in no incentive to go to Val 6.. When people grind they often aren't LOOKING for PVP... They just use PVP as a way to try and grind undisturbed.. Only people who are looking for PVP will go to Val 6.. If they added incentive to go there, such as PVP events, higher skill/combat exp and item drops.. And some sort of bounty system.. Then yeah I would have way more incentive to go to Val 6.. But when I want to grind.. I would still probably go to a normal channel.. Because I don't WANT to be fighting someone for the spot every 5 mins..

    The biggest problems with this game is because Kakao and PA do not understand their playbase.. Kakao don't even play the game or care that much about it.. Most of them don't even have a character above level 56.
     

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