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Karma Bombing Is becoming a serious issue

Discussion in 'General Gameplay' started by yungluke222, Aug 11, 2020.

  1. Vortexii

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    This issue has been discussed many times and the only fruitful solution has been a request for scrolls to have an option or be converted into Agris Buff. That would remove the timer entirely and allow an allocated amount of drop boost. (Or an equivalent of Agris)
     
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  2. PeaceInChaos

    PeaceInChaos Sorceress 63 NA

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    This comment is a projection. Also biased toward one aspect, and doesn't account for the other side of the problem. Acting like you're the one true white knights of the community and all PvP-players are blood thirsty and can't control their impulses to PK you. What glass bell do YOU live under? You haven't replied to my previous post, with a situation THAT HAS HAPPENED TO ME IN GAME, that goes completely against this narrative you guys try to push. Instead of actually discussing and dissecting the issue I ran into, you guys just dismiss it, ignore it or straw-man & ad hominem the crap out of it.

    In case you missed it, here it is - I'd love to see your opinion on it.

    (from page 6 of this thread)
    Karma-Bomber (by way of an in-game example I've personally experienced):
    1) You are grinding a rotation, minding your own business.
    2) Another player enters the rotation you're grinding and starts killing the mobs in it.
    3) You have a Loot Scroll and PvE buffs running and all you want to do is use up your Agris Fever then go about your day.
    4) You kindly ask the person to wait or leave. IE: "Hey, I'm grinding this roto. Got 20 mins left on my LS. Mind waiting a bit? I'll be leaving right after and it's all yours :)"
    5) They ignore you. You try asking nicely again and they obviously see you there. But they ignore you - like you don't even exist.
    6) Feeling totally disrespected by this blatant form of bullying and toxic behavior ruining your game experience, you understandably get frustrated.
    7) You PK them. (What else do you do here? Swap channels? What if that roto is already occupied on another channel? Do most players bend over backwards when this happens? I assume most players do not take kindly to disrespect, as evidenced by comments in this thread. IE: "I like being able to Karma-Bomb because it's the only way I can "defend" my spot". Why are you guys such hypocrites?)
    8) The other person comes back immediately and continues to ignore you and continues hitting the mobs.
    9) You still kindly ask them to leave you alone. IE: "Dude, please, I'm almost done here. Can you please not be toxic?"
    10) They still completely ignore you.
    11) You've already lost a lot of time to someone who is BLATANTLY disrespectful of you, your time and your game experience. You PK them because you're UNDERSTANDABLY frustrated. (If you can't understand this frustration, and you are the type of person to bend-over backwards to bullies, then you're not part of this conversation. Does not apply to you.)
    12) They keep coming back. They remove their gear, which you can tell because they die, 100-0, in one ability. You are now Red and face penalties for being red, all because of another player using available in-game tools to harass you and ruin your game experience. You have just been Karma-Bombed by a Karma-Bomber (the act of purposefully being an annoyance to another player, with the intentions of coercing that player into PK-ing you).

    BDO currently has no tangible way to deal with this. Players are left with few options in this situation: 1) Leave (AKA succumbing to a toxic person, which, if someone agrees I should've just succumbed to it, is clearly a hypocrite if they promote Karma-Bombing too). 2) PK the person harassing you and suffer all the penalty for it while they get away scott free - no penalty, no spawn timer, NOTHING.

    There is no allowed way to defend yourself against this blatant act of toxicity and disrespect towards you. In IRL, we have self-defense laws. The self-defense laws in BDO only apply for weaker players who get griefed by stronger players. But what of the other way around? I've not heard or read a single reasonable and logical comment about this from people who support Karma-Bombing. Not surprised. People usually only see things that benefit themselves and themselves only, and don't care about anyone else but themselves.
     
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  3. flukeSG2

    flukeSG2 Tamer 62 NA

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    Yes, I'm clearly biased to unbiased-ness!!! HAHAHAHAHA!!! It's so biased of me for the game to remain PvPvE rather than alter it to my own personal version of whatever I desire, LOL!

    I recommend you take your own advice, recognize your problem, I mean it should be fairly easy at this point with as many times as it's been pointed out to you. You are a liar. Everyone can see your lies, I never said "we have clear evidence the majority want PvP" you're a liar, that's a lie, you made that up. There is no single shred of evidence that a "huge portion" wants PvE servers, you're a liar, that's a lie, you made that up.

    Your lies are biased to what you want, it's not the other way around. I bash on toxic players who want to radically alter the landscape of the game because they can't reconcile they made a poor decision when buying a game with a core feature they don't like, like yourself for example, rather than enjoying the entire experience of the game, they (and you) want to trample on everyone else's experience.

    I don't even know how people like you can do what you do, make up bald-faced lies about other people when every one of them reflects their own actions...like how do you do that? Seriously, is this a disease you and the President share? That's kind of rhetorical because it is certainly something you share, lol!

    What a sad failure of a reply, how do you keep failing so hard every time you reply, you should just stop. Again, you're for abusing exploits and against those who would use actual in-game mechanics and gameplay, I get it, you've more than explained in detail this fact. No need to keep reiterating this. You want PvE only and you'll do anything in order to force this onto everyone in the game despite how the game was created, you're a hypocrite.

    It's literally not the topic, lel, it's what you want them to complain about and not what is actually written. You people have serious issues. No one is asking to remove karma penalties, that's just ******** anti-PvP propaganda you try to push off on everyone. Seriously, you just read the words people write, how hard is it? LOL!

    Sorry, but I'm winning. Maybe you don't know the difference because you think dying repeatedly is winning too.

    I have no narrative of than reality, it's the only one I need. It's only pitiful because it has to involve you and the anti-PvP league at some point. Should call you BDO Nazis, lol!

    If it's so terrible, why the **** are you still here? Who's got the gun to your head forcing you to play? Just tell us we can come and help, that way you don't have to play the big bad game where people can kill one another. I recommend you try Hello Kitty Online, it might be more to your liking, lol!

    Whatever you do, don't play Grand Theft Auto Online, my god, you think it's bad here you'd probably run away in tears after shitting yourself, hahahahaha!!!
     
    #123 flukeSG2, Aug 13, 2020
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 13, 2020
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  4. sajdas

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    to be honest, most of the time its the other way around (i do not say that what you described doesnt happen, since it does happen from time to time):
    while player A is grinding minding his own business, player B come to the area, now there are 2 options:
    1) player B ask for duel, if player A agree, all good and fine. but if player A disagree, player B pk him and announce "spot taken" and complain when player A doest comply.

    2) player B just flag with out saying anything, killing player A, if player A return, player B get mad and curse him.

    now then, both scenarios of your case and the case i just described seems samiliar, 1 player grind and minding his own business while the other player interrupt him - either by PK or by "karmabombing".

    overall, spot doesnt belong to anyone, and i see both the karma system and the pk system as ways for players to contest the spots.
     
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  5. flukeSG2

    flukeSG2 Tamer 62 NA

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    You forget the most common scenario:

    3) player B ignores player A and grinds on top of player A in order to either, instigate a confrontation or to force him to leave. In either case, player B always wins.
     
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  6. PeaceInChaos

    PeaceInChaos Sorceress 63 NA

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    I can see how you described it happening, but TBH, all - every single one - of my encounters with players at high-end grind spots are not like this. There is a 3rd option as well >>

    >> I may have gotten lucky, but I grind Star's End a LOT...it's my favorite grind spot. People approach me all the time saying, "DFS", and as of late, I've denied these requests - I simply say something like, "Nah man, I got a LS running and Simple Cron Meal...rather not PvP right now" >> and every single one of them, I estimate like about 10 people, have actually respected that and left me alone. Completely honest here. Some of them asked how long I'll be there, one was like, "but why?" - but all of them, every single one, left me alone in the end. Most players aren't toxic...it's just the few truly toxic ones that ruin it for the rest of us.

    Sometimes, sure, but not all the time. I've experienced it otherwise as well.

    Yeah. Lose lose situation IMO.

    Yep, spot doesn't "belong" to anyone - it's a vast open world and we players share the world, often coming into conflict with one another, forcing us to make social decisions. This in itself is healthy for the game. What is not is when toxic people aim to ruin the experience of others for their own benefit, and one way to do this is by exploiting a system that has no punishment for it AKA Karma-bombing.

    (This term's definition has become muddied and convoluted in this forum. I'd suggest not getting that info from people in this forum, instead from credible veterans like FakeUniform, Macilus, PotionShopTV, etc. They stream, so you can ask them for their input. This is advice to anyone new here. Listen to credible people, not random nobodys on a game forum.)

    I appreciate the honest dialogue, sajdas. We need more actual conversations and less perceivable "hate" towards one another. Thanks for your input, it does add to the discussion instead of an air of dismissal and deflection (ahem columbo, ahem woots, ahem vortex)
     
    #126 PeaceInChaos, Aug 13, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2020
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  7. Cheekyman

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    Are you guys time traveling back to 2016 or something.
     
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  8. Khondo

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    And what is so different, same situation, but the person coming into your spot, asks you to duel and out gears you.......

    Tell me what is the difference in that situation. Why is that not toxic behaviour?

    I agree your example is really bad play and is toxic, but I also see, someone taking over your grind spot just because they have better gear, is extremely toxic.

    Why I have duels permanently disabled.
     
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  9. Kynreaa

    Kynreaa DarkKnight 62

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    You know bullying is a legitimate playstyle that makes the game fun, for those who can enjoy a game for being a game. That scenario you described would be odd, but perhaps an interesting way to make a game..Winner of dual for spot get transferred to rbf to grind other winners of dual for spot in a battle royal for Pen gear. People who cant win dual for spot are condemned to grind circle rotations till they can win against a challenger.

    That way people have the opportunity to progress without the enhancement system. People who wanna circle grind in peace karma bombing can do just that.

    The type of people that run around Pking for the fun of it, are the people that make sandboxes work.

    Removing the "consequence on death", breeded a path for people to throw temper tantrums and get results for being spoil sports is what it did. Combined with the gaming being P2W, the devs just created a catastraphuck.

    The game is designed for competition over resources, Karma being a balance feature doesent change that. The karma is just the rules the devs wanted to make the game interesting in its own form. To keep it from being just a large open battle royal, like what arsha is.

    If the game wasn't so P2W, Arsha is sorta what they had in mind to begin with. Perhaps it would not have been so bad if it had other systems involved to make open world PK a fun form of progression. And fun for those who have no interest in pk, but like to "supply the troops" so to speak.
     
    #129 Kynreaa, Aug 13, 2020
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 18, 2020
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  10. MarsKiller

    MarsKiller Ranger 62 EU

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    I highly doubt they will work on it. Doesn't matter what they promise. Why? Because they gonna have to pick a side. Favor the PVE players or favor the PVP players. What ever side they pick it will be abused. Based on your own poll. The most people on the forum wants PVE. Ingame you can see it on the amount of people in season servers and them not being in Arsha. So if you gonna make the system in the favor of PVP. Most people will leave the game. Long story short: Have fun Pking people if nobody is playing ya game.
     
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  11. flukeSG2

    flukeSG2 Tamer 62 NA

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    They don't have to pick a side, there were no sides at the game launch, there should be no sides now. They're not trying to cater to two different audiences who want two different versions of the game. Based on my poll, the forum voters enjoy PvE more, that is all my poll says. Season servers offer the fastest way to progress for everyone, of course, everyone is going to take advantage of that. The system is already equally in favor of PvP as it is PvE, and I doubt most people will leave the game that's just supposition. I have no worries that there will be more than enough players to kill if they follow through with what they intend.
     
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  12. ODB3698

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    If you haven't noticed, as usual, its the PKer drowning the forums in tears because he couldn't make other players do what he wanted. Literally the game's rules and your own experiences are already telling you to suck it up. The game already gives you a place to play the way that you want...to stop the deluge of your tears...but you are too scared of someone else being in that place who will do to you, what you are wanting to do to other players. The irony is not lost to the rest of us lol. We could care less about your gear, your class, or your ego...we didn't buy the game for that. Go right ahead though, keep beating your head against that brick wall as the rest of us continue to play the game..best of luck lol.
     
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  13. woots

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    ahah, look at that [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    That still try to somehow distord / faint to not understand enough things to impose your opinion & play the poison wheel.

    That was so funny. ( not because you are tho )

    i've never saw someone so bad at trying to impose his opinion KEKW

    wait ? suddently the topic has changed to something else than "
    Karma Bombing Is becoming a serious issue" ?

    suddently pker stop cry at players not having to play by their rules ?

    I mean i saw you want to impose your opinion as you keep hammer the same thing to try make it true ( insanety much ? )
    But the topic is litteraly pker crying about players not playing like THEY want.
     
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  14. ODB3698

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    Incorrect. Removing consequences on pvp death just removed your ability to prevent other players from playing the game they also paid for. A passive aggressive approach to dealing with a bully who outgears you is no worse than that bully who outgears you bullying you in the first place. Yes, the game is designed for competition over resources...that hasn't changed...you just want it to be only your way of competing. What should happen is that all these "consequences and penalties" you guys want...should be on arsha. That way you guys can go there and "compete" to your heart's content and enjoy those consequences and penalties you want everyone else to endure. That way you guys can experience the other side of this situation that you are pretending not to see.
     
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  15. woots

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    Just to highlight that message.
     
  16. ManlyBeard

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    Yea, and at what spots does the karma bombing mostly occur i dare ask ??
     
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  17. RobinSan

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    Yes and this would not be exploited by a groups of friends letting each other win turn by turn... LMAO
     
  18. ManlyBeard

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    Bullying in a game falls under online harassment and is actually against the ToS, as you are making the gameplay experience not enjoyable for another player.

    Case in point, that one dude that kept bullying the RPers ... Dremlock i believe was the name
     
  19. Sadalsuud

    Sadalsuud Tamer 62 EU

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    Well... A game with an "outlaw" system is not necessarily a bad game, removing the exp loss was not a bad thing to my opinion but it should have been replaced with something else, something purely temporary, a slap on the hand for the victim and a big punch in the face for the outlaw that get killed later.

    But yes, I want a good system of consequences and penalties, that's what we have on regular channels (though not perfect) and Arsha is precisely NOT a good alternative for that.
     
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  20. woots

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    When a player have no consideration whatsoever for "pk" he then doesnt play the same way, and will not consider beeing pk-ed as "losing", but just as someone trying to force something he doesnt want, care about / an annoyance

    So as the game is made like that, ignore & go back to his buisiness, at this point, its the pker fault for not understanding that the other dont have to play like he want & pker will only waste his time so karma ( as its the topic ) pk-ing.

    there isnt only one side of the coin. And like for many things, you can wish for someone do what you want / share the same "vision" But if you try to force it, well, then deal with the consequences, and here its "karmacide" ( what somes prefer to call karmabombing )


    Which then it kinda go back to the same thing : PA still making 2 kind of players coexist with a middle ground really pleasing no one. As necessary that middle ground have to "protect" thoses not willing to be part of that "pk"
    Split players and suddently it would remove a lot of constraint regarding the possible owpvp setting, as necessary all players choosing to go to channel with flag usable, will want to play with it.
    PA so a lot of "pker" here dont get that, then whatever.
     
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