Not acting like any true white knights here, I am fully aware both sides of this spectrum have their own problematic players, but it is true that you can deal with them without too much issues. Also the reason why I haven't replied to you was because I simply didn't bother reading it (afterall if wasn't adessed to me), not because I didn't know how. But if my extra comment will clear some things up I don't mind answering now. Not really ''straw-maning'' anything here. There is plenty of PKers who know just fine how to deal with karmabombers, and yet there is also a big portion of them who just come on forums complaining about a system that works if you put just a bit of brain to use. I am not annoyed by people who PK, I am annoyed by those who PK without a single good reason to do so other then just make the person leave, and are then surprised why this happens to them. Alright with that aside I'll read the rest now. I will underline your parts of the comment so It's more clear to go through. 2) Another player enters the rotation you're grinding and starts killing the mobs in it. - This is the issue number 1. What kind of a rotation do you have that other players even manage to get and kill your mobs? No wonder people come and try to take it. It isn't really your rotation if you can't take of all the mobs at the right time. Tigther it so mobs aren't standing (Nobody will take a thing then, because there won't be a thing to take.) Naturally most players will go in and try to take some kills, since there are mobs there just waiting to get killed for some time. They have a right to that rotation as much as you do. Being there first doesn't make it your rota, having dueld for it doesn't make it yours, having better gear doesn't make it yours, and having killed people on it that come doesn't make it yours either. In no world is that rotation, or any rotation, or any mobs for that matter, yours. Everyone bought the same game. By doing that they have all rights to this product, to do with it what they wish as long as it's not against the rules. And the reason why they are taking it is because they see it can be profitable for them and they can. Since mobs are standing around not being busy. 3) You have a Loot Scroll and PvE buffs running and all you want to do is use up your Agris Fever then go about your day. - This is one thing I agree is an issue. Many people said that buffs should be something you can toggle and I agree with that. So far the only option when someone comes to your spot is to change character so you don't waste yout buffs and that is quite dumb to do and annoying. Most people actually PK others right away because they either aren't bothered to ask for a duel since it takes time and their scrolls are running, so they kill right away. Putting a toggle option on this would reduce ammount of these players who don't even ask or talk on the spot, but kill you right away. 4) You kindly ask the person to wait or leave. IE: "Hey, I'm grinding this roto. Got 20 mins left on my LS. Mind waiting a bit? I'll be leaving right after and it's all yours. 5) They ignore you. You try asking nicely again and they obviously see you there. But they ignore you - like you don't even exist. - You just sugarcoated ''spot taken'', and this is what most people see as well. Which is probably why they start bothering you even if it isn't efficient for them. Saying it in a nicer and longer way doesn't change meaning of that sentence. I actually tested this myself too on a few players, and it always led to ''why should I leave? You don't own this.'' And well they are right. But they do always leave after max of 10 minutes, when they see they jut can't take your packs if you clean them properly. And players who ignored me, are actually the first ones to leave after trying to aggresively try to get in front of you. Wait it out and they leave fast. 6) Feeling totally disrespected by this blatant form of bullying and toxic behavior ruining your game experience, you understandably get frustrated. - Well you also ruined their gaming experience when you told them to leave, even thought they decided to be here since it's a game they bought and they just felt like grinding here. Why would a stranger tell them to not do it and change plans they had for those few hours? I believe you are now the one who only sees one side of the problem. Both sides are ruining eachother's gaming experience. I have never in my life got frustrated because a player ignored me. Just keep doing your stuff. Furthermore, if they purposefully ignore you, they are basically just waiting for your reaction. If you kill them, then they will just realise that you are easy to deal with, and they will most likely stay on the spot. If you just ignored them however, and tightered your rota, they would most likely leave in around 5 minutes. 7) You PK them. (What else do you do here? Swap channels? What if that roto is already occupied on another channel? Do most players bend over backwards when this happens? I assume most players do not take kindly to disrespect, as evidenced by comments in this thread. IE: "I like being able to Karma-Bomb because it's the only way I can "defend" my spot". Why are you guys such hypocrites?) - What else is to do? Well I worte it above. If you ignore them and continue with your stuff, person will see they get no reaction from you (since you keep comparing karmabombing to bullying, I think this is the perfect example. If you know how to deal with ''this bullying'', the bully will get bored and leave.) Not like they have to leave though. If you grind properly there should be no mobs left alive, so the bully can just stand around and look at you without taking a single mob but really hard trying at it. That's always interesting to watch when it happens. I even get asked often ''why don't you flag : ( ?'' - Also what respect? Why should I respect you because you got to this rotation before me? This isn't a line in a supermarket and nor is it real life. I had people literally spawning in front of me with their maid showing up, saying that they were here all the time and that I should ''kindly leave'' because they can kill me. Of course. They leave after 5 minutes after they are done with their speech. Should I respect you because you won a duel since you got a lot higher gear score which most players buy with irl money anyway? No. I will not respect you grinding ''your'' rotation. I also want to have fun on it, I also want to spend my free time there. If I am unable to grind then I will leave. But honestly, people have no idea how to make smaller rotations since a lot of them watch guides on YT, and think half of hystria is theirs. And for some classes, karmabombing IS the only way to defend your spot. Blame it on the game being unbalanced, not the player. 8) The other person comes back immediately and continues to ignore you and continues hitting the mobs. - Why are there still mobs alive that they can hit? Honestly... 9) You still kindly ask them to leave you alone. IE: "Dude, please, I'm almost done here. Can you please not be toxic?" - Depends what you define as toxic, and that differs from person to person. I don't see anything toxic when a player comes to ''my rotation'' and starts taking mobs that are alive. I blame myself, I should have grinded them better. I didn't and now they saw a chance. I do see it as quite annoying when a person who is unable to grind properly tells me that it's ''their spot'' yet 80% of mobs are alive. 11) You've already lost a lot of time to someone who is BLATANTLY disrespectful of you, your time and your game experience. You PK them because you're UNDERSTANDABLY frustrated. - Well there you go. You PK them because you got angry. If that's not an emotional reason, then I don't know what it is. I'm happy that there are players who are able to PK just because they see it as fun, and not as something they have to do (since well, you don't have to do it to remove the person). Again, it's a virtual pixel world, nobody needs to respect you or anyone, and they themselves don't need to be respected. - People have different ways of having fun in a game. Their ways of fun colliding with yours doesn't make them toxic. Learn how to deal with it and it won't be such an issue anymore. Adapt that people have different ways of playing this game. You are tunnel-visioned thinking that only your way of playing is the proper one worthy of respect. You are basically telling people ''don't have fun go away, i'm the one who wants to have fun now.'' No wonder people stay on spot longer just to bother you. 12) They keep coming back. They remove their gear, which you can tell because they die, 100-0, in one ability. You are now Red and face penalties for being red, all because of another player using available in-game tools to harass you and ruin your game experience. You have just been Karma-Bombed by a Karma-Bomber (the act of purposefully being an annoyance to another player, with the intentions of coercing that player into PK-ing you). - Nope. You are red facing penalties because you yourself got frustrated, without simply doing something else to make player go away. Also... If they remove all their gear just feed them to mobs? They will shred through them like paper anyway. Why even waste karma here? Speaking of ''ingame tools to harass players'', I have also been harassed by a lot bigger geared players who used the ingame tools called cashshop to get to full PEN c10 and oneshot me. But nobody is changing that mechanic are they. - And lastly, nobody is forcing you to flag up, players aren't espers or psychic. Deal with that differently. I have been playing for almost 4 years, I had countless of encounters of this example you mentioned, and not once did I feel forced to flag or had to flag to make the player leave. And I managed to keep every single spot. The problem is you, because you are bothered by a player trying to compete by grinding, while you think only competition here should be flagging up. BDO currently has no tangible way to deal with this.. - BDO has plenty of ways to deal with it... you just don't want to take the 5 minutes of your time to actually think about what to do and simply do it. It's even easier if a player just ignores you and you ignore them. You should feel lucky if you find someone who says ''ok I will leave'', but 90% of players won't say it. Because 90% of players don't see that spot as yours, especially if they can just come in and take living mobs. There is no allowed way to defend yourself against this blatant act of toxicity and disrespect towards you. In IRL, we have self-defense laws. -...well this isn't real life. Stop using game as a substitute for real life. This mechanic isn't an exploit and it isn't cheating of any sort. If you like using real life as an example then I will you one example. It's as if you take a bus and you have 2 chairs next to one another. You take one chair, and another person takes another one. And you get frustrated over this. Even though you both paid the seats, and even though that seat was empty for them to take. Not surprised. People usually only see things that benefit themselves and themselves only, and don't care about anyone else but themselves. - Sorry, but there is just so much ways for you to keep a spot when a karmabomber appears. And I'm tired of repeating myself. If your only way is to flag on them over and over, that's on you. And that is why karma system exists. It's almost as if the karma system is telling you ''hey ok you should stop now and think of something else how to deal with this.'' But people refuse to see this, and just come on forums asking for karma to be removed rather then just tweaked a bit. Even if those people are the first players who would leave the game out of sheer frustration in the case scenario where karma is removed. They will get walked over by players who will actually play the game for fun, their fun being killing you with their overly big AP, no matter where you are, and no matter what you do. That's my opinion on the matter.