1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Karma System Rework [Suggestions Megathread]

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Tansie, Feb 14, 2018.

  1. Tansie

    Tansie Ranger 61 EU

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2015
    Messages:
    730
    Likes Received:
    659
    Yeah, I think with a lot of suggestions, people just lose interest and can't be bothered reading through large walls of text either. In cases where it's a controversial topic, people seem to instantly take a dislike/like without giving it much thought either and don't want to welcome any sort of change, especially when the way things are currently benefit them or don't effect them.

    I wish that Kakao would advertise suggestions and ask people to give feedback or do regular polls/questionnaires to get feedback. Just more exposure to suggestions would help them in seperating good ideas with bad ones.

    Off-topic:
    Yeah, at the time I was at university so I didn't want to move :( Plus moving is scary haha. But yeah exactly.. I'm not sure how exactly things are or even how deep these "discussions" go with Pearl Abyss. One hour discussion once a week isn't really enough to go through everything and once a week also sounds like it isn't much at all.. I would also like to know if Kakao reaches out to other region publishers to also see if players in other regions feel the same way as we do. Sharing feedback like that can only benefit them and give everyone a better understanding.

    I just think communication in general is really bad. It's usually pretty bad with games but I don't think I've ever seen it SO bad. I'd like to see more of the twitch streams, with one being every month. But I think the memes created from the last one have put them off XD There are other things like that, such as a PM diary where they can think about what they say and aren't on the spot as much... Or take FAQ threads every so often where they select questions they feel they can answer (so interviews basically).

    As for the P2W stuff recently (and well forever really), I totally agree. Tbh I feel extremely tempted to buy the tent because it's so convient, but I feel like doing that just goes against my other morals.
     
    helbjorneBDO likes this.
  2. helbjorneBDO

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2017
    Messages:
    877
    Likes Received:
    941
    People that don't want to advocate for change with things that don't affect them but greatly affects others can be very frustrating. Hell, most the things on that suggestion thread wouldn't affect me, but I know how much they affect others, and it wouldn't be fair to cater to only one portion of the community.

    As for Kakao not communicating, I can understand why they don't. The majority of them (Kakao employees) don't play or even have a basic understanding of the game, and they put their foot in their mouth whenever they try to discuss anything, hence why I think their supervisors tell them not to get that involved with the community. It would make a lot more sense to properly train your employees or find employees that are passionate about the game and the community, but it's alright. We'll just stick with our ever silent @PM Cool and his gang of Senior GMs that are sweeping chimneys for energy and think costumes are pets.

    I try to be professional, but it is so frustrating to know that these are the people publishing this game.
     
    Tansie likes this.
  3. Tansie

    Tansie Ranger 61 EU

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2015
    Messages:
    730
    Likes Received:
    659
    Yeah pretty much. I also feel like if people believe something is going to be implemented (as in you either speak up now or it's going in the game), you get much more honest feedback and accurate feedback. If people see another suggestion then they just can't be bothered to voice their opinon about it because they feel their opinion doesn't really matter at the end of the day, since it won't be listened to.

    I also feel the exact same way as you. It would probably not change much for me. I would maybe go and deliberatly hunt down others every so often because that's where games are the most fun. I'd also love to try being negative and constantly be on the run/sent to jail. Being able to dip in and out of them would be really fun for me.. But people also have the option to stick to one of them forever if they want to. Or even just not get involved and the game wouldn't really change for them. If people want to steal a spot they are also more likely to try and steal it from the person that is the oppostive karma faction as them than bother a neutral or someone in the same faction! So stealing spots should also not really be an issue anymore.

    I dunno, I'm struggling to find something wrong with it. I'm starting to worry that maybe I'm just biased.. But everyone who has left a comment has seemed to be persuaded into liking it as well xD I hate how people just dislike it and don't speak up though, because how am I meant to cater to you if you don't tell me what's wrong!

    The people who communicate need to be the people who know what they are talking about then and should be the senior GMs or PM. I don't know why they would put people who don't know the basics of the game, into hosting a Twitch stream. It's one of the only times we get direct contact from Kakao and it's also in real time so there is no room for errors.. I get that they are probably busy enough, but they need to dedicate time for this every so often because it's super important. Kakao is the face of the game because they are who you deal with when it comes to all aspects of the game. The image they put out effects the image of the game and how well it can do. They are basically there to promote and keep players happy.

    The energy thing on stream was hilarious and I find it even funnier that they will try to pretend it was just a joke xDDD I'm sorry but if you watch the stream you can tell it wasn't a joke.... They were asked a legit question and would never answer with a "joke" like that without then clarifying and explaining the real way. Their faces as well when they said it screamed "oh yeah I actually know the answer to this question!" Well they clearly didn't XD

    As for the who fox pet thing. I can understand it because they are answering 100s of support tickets every day. I don't know the name of every single costume on the store. I don't even know the name of the one I own.. And when you hear "fox" you do think of the desert fox. The biggest problem was that the person who answered the ticket clearly didn't read it properly since it clearly stated and reference a costume multiple times.. I've also had issues in the past with this. I complained that you can get stuck in a tree in Kamaslyvia. I had died because of it and my horse had died too. I wasn't really asking for compensation, I was just suggesting that the tree should be moved/fixed.. I even explained that I was no longer stuck in the tree..... 5 minutes later I was kicked out of the game and when I logged back in I had been put back in Velia to "resolve the stuck issue"....

    5 minutes response is pretty fast at least, I will admit they can sometimes be fast at answering tickets. I then sent another ticket to complain that I now had to run all the way back from Velia, but the guy apologised and I wasn't too butthurt over it XD

    Anyway I have to go now unfortunately and can't chat anymore :( You will have to take over answering questions and stuff on reddit xD
     
    Nlshklll and helbjorneBDO like this.
  4. Raidenklaus

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2017
    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    3
    Karma system is fine as it is
     
    Columba likes this.
  5. helbjorneBDO

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2017
    Messages:
    877
    Likes Received:
    941
    No, it really isn't. The current Karma system is underdeveloped, discourages OWPvP, doesn't benefit anyone except for Karma bombers, the punishments for being negative Karma are too severe, the current jail system makes zero sense, Muiquun (the negative Karma "town") is barren and had very little effort put into it, there's no content created by the current system (unless you consider a negative alt for degrading gear content), and considering this game was marketed as an open world PvP sandbox game, fails to uphold the game's core values.
     
    flukeSG2, Tansie and Nlshklll like this.
  6. Raidenklaus

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2017
    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    3
    But it is :) all you want is to be able to keep power over weaker and new players :)
     
    Columba likes this.
  7. Senzai

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2016
    Messages:
    387
    Likes Received:
    196
    Stop creating new threads like this every day.
    They won’t change it and wanna know why?.
    Because PvE/ Normal Players Masterace.

    Ofc they tried a lot to keep you calm , with tons of arenas , rbf, nw, misc PvP servers, but it’s never good enough for the 1%er.

    They are just wasting time with the roxxors.
     
  8. helbjorneBDO

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2017
    Messages:
    877
    Likes Received:
    941
    What a compelling counterargument. If you play on NA give me your Family name and home channel so I can gift you some Artisan Memories for your insightful wisdom. :)
     
    Tansie likes this.
  9. Tansie

    Tansie Ranger 61 EU

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2015
    Messages:
    730
    Likes Received:
    659
  10. freymarch

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2015
    Messages:
    90
    Likes Received:
    88
    I like this. Kinda skimmed through it but I like this idea (didn't bother reading the replies on it). Still a bit iffy on the karma being family wide though, but I understand the idea on it. Maybe have like a system where all characters still have separate karma pool but still get affected if you go negative on one? So say, you go over another negative tier on one character and the rest of your characters goes down a tier...something like that?

    The ye olde bounty hunter system idea they had before release sounded great before they scrapped that so having some fun pvp with something like this is nice.
     
    Tansie and helbjorneBDO like this.
  11. helbjorneBDO

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2017
    Messages:
    877
    Likes Received:
    941
    What I find amusing is that all the people that spam their anti-PvP/Karma propaganda refuse to come to suggestion forums to discuss things so we can come up with a satisfactory system that benefits everyone in the community. A lot of them won't even read anything that contradicts their belief that if you PvP in this game you're a psychotic douchebag who's only objective is to make others miserable. I've linked this thread and they respond with things like "Any changes to the Karma system only benefit the elite 1% of player, blah blah blah," even though this system was designed specifically around discouraging PvP with neutral players and weakening the "elite 1%" who go on killing sprees, but hey, reading is hard.

    At bare minimum, I think we need to:
    • Remove jail system from the desert and add it to other regions, with their own jail systems (Mediah, Balenos, Calpheon, Serendia, Kamasylvia), and make -10k Karma = 1 minute in jail (so max jail time would be 100 minutes at -1mil Karma)
    • Force players to respawn at town upon PvP death
    • Make subsequent kills against the same player within a 10 minute period not result in additional Karma loss
    • Remove the 2% EXP loss, crystal destruction, and gear degradation from negative Karma death
    I think the system we came up with in this thread is much better, but the above would take one competent person less than a week to implement, although I'm not sure if Pearl Abyss has any of those working for them.
     
    #71 helbjorneBDO, Apr 3, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2018
    Tansie likes this.
  12. Orihata

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2018
    Messages:
    34
    Likes Received:
    17
    why not make a faction to put people with negitive karma in like a pirate one
     
    Tansie likes this.
  13. RP Tzuyu

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2017
    Messages:
    645
    Likes Received:
    150
    or just dec on family for the 1v1 openworld pvp, and give the losing one gridning debuff, -200ap, 300dp on the rotation of that channel for 1 hour or till the winner leavethe rotation....
     
  14. Tansie

    Tansie Ranger 61 EU

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2015
    Messages:
    730
    Likes Received:
    659
    Honestly, I doubt they would go for a total rehaul, which is what we've suggested in this thread. I would like them to do that because it would give incentive for OWPVP and also a bounty sort of system.. But I highly doubt that a change that big will ever be implemented.. They didn't even commit to the jail system and only put it in 1 area, which I think was a big mistake.. People wanted a rework to the karma system and flagging ever since alpha testing, all we got was a step in the complete opposite direction.... I dunno where all those people are who wanted it changed, I don't think any of them really bother to come on forums.. And they definately never come on the suggestions section, they are too busy actually playing the game I guess XD

    I do agree though.. At bare minimum I would like to see those 4 points added. Incentive for OWPVP and a bounty system could be added later on somehow anyway. I don't think you'd even really have to put a rule in for subsequent kills, as long as there are town only spawns I think that would be enough really.. Then make karma account wide to stop griefing, and put in some other protection for players, such as making the PVP level restriction higher (level 56 or 57 imo).

    What I do want as well though, which you haven't mentioned, is for players to have to flag up to hit someone who is negative karma.. That would mean they would be able to defend themselves freely, but if they choose to flag up on someone else and kill them, they would still lose karma.. It makes a definition between surviving and murdering.
     
    helbjorneBDO likes this.
  15. helbjorneBDO

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2017
    Messages:
    877
    Likes Received:
    941
    I completely forgot about increasing the level requirement for PvP and I think your suggestion regarding having to flag to attack a negative Karma player would be a fantastic change that would require little work.
     
    Tansie likes this.
  16. Tansie

    Tansie Ranger 61 EU

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2015
    Messages:
    730
    Likes Received:
    659
    Yeah I think one of the most frustrating things about grind all of that karma back, is that if I see anyone else whilst doing it, I literally have no choice but to run and avoid them. In order to hit them back, when they are already hitting me, I have to flag up... If I kill them then I lose more karma.. I'd at least like the option to fight back if they want to try and send me to jail xD

    Sometimes I wonder how it's same development team that did all of the workers, housing, crafting, amity, knowledge, etc...
     
    helbjorneBDO likes this.
  17. RP Tzuyu

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2017
    Messages:
    645
    Likes Received:
    150
    different teams for different jobs....
     
  18. CM Yukimura

    Community Coordinator

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2017
    Messages:
    926
    Likes Received:
    3,789
    This will be shared with the developers separately from the weekly report, since it deserves to be looked and considered as a change that will have a big impact on the game.

    @Tansie
    Out of curiosity: Is this idea inspired by some other games or purely a brand new idea?

    Thank you Tansie and hellbjorne for your collaboration!
     
    helbjorneBDO and Tansie like this.
  19. RP Tzuyu

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2017
    Messages:
    645
    Likes Received:
    150
    tbh, everyone who has a XL guild never back away from any karmabomb or grief.... but smaller guilds or individuals always suffer in gvg, and gvg is the only way to stop grief or karmabomb... with a 15minutes timer of painful wasting of xp buff...
    a smaller system, family declaration will do the job just right.... a little tweak and it will be a great with no abuse
     
  20. Tansie

    Tansie Ranger 61 EU

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2015
    Messages:
    730
    Likes Received:
    659
    This idea was a brand new one as far as I know. I don't think I know another game that goes for this sort of approach and I think it was mostly inspired by the karma rework suggested back at alpha. Hellbjorne came up with most of it and then we just worked on it together to "polish" it and make sure there were no obvious issues with it.

    Thanks for the update @CM Yukimura :)
     

Share This Page