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Musa skills still broken?

Discussion in 'Musa' started by DJ8838, Sep 20, 2018.

  1. DJ8838

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  2. Andaro

    Andaro Archive
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    Wasn't thefe patch notes previously that said they removed invincibility while using chase?

    And a lot of classes lost super armor on several skills...but I don't remember which note said what...

    If they changed the skill then its not.a.bug

    That video is from Aug 2017 which I believe was before they instigated those changes....I could be wrong
     
  3. farsay

    farsay Mystic 62 NA

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    Happens with mystic, people with high ap can break through your SA, idk if it’s a bug or a feature lol
     
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  4. levinano

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    They never removed it. It has always been that Chase has invincibility and Super Armor on cooldown. They would never remove that from Musa. With the stamina nerf, any class can outrun a Musa since he can only dash for 5 seconds, after that, he can't do anything. If you took SA away from those 5 seconds, the class would truly become useless and unplayable.

    I think it's just lag/desync. Every video shows you getting CCed immediately after the initiation of the protected skill, it happens to me a lot too. Basically, with a 100 ms latency, everything happening on your screen happens 0.1 seconds faster than how it actually happens on server. Even though it looks like you used a protected skill, it didn't register on the server.
     
  5. DJ8838

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    Feels like im getting too cc'd too many times to blame it on lag, but i guess i cant trust on bdo servers
     
  6. DJ8838

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    ye I don't have a problem with accuracy or ap or anything like that, but that chase and crosscut bug is a problem. i tried this multiple times and always the same result, CC goes through my invincibility on chase and trough SA on crosscut. and if i use chase when its off cooldown i still go forward on the enemy screen and on my own, so its not about ping couz the enemy is seeing me move aswell.
     
  7. WhySoSeeryus

    WhySoSeeryus Wizard 63 EU

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    this is the biggest ******** ever written on these forums.

    :D :D :D :D :D :D
     
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  8. levinano

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    ... Do you play Musa...? Do you need video proof...? If you use Chase Cancel, or just dash in awakening, you're not going to last any longer than 7 seconds max. After that there's no movement skills you could rotate to keep you going and half your skills will be locked due to the lack of stamina.

    Sure within these 7 seconds Musa may be faster than some classes but every other class will outrun Musa past these. For reference, a 2150 Stamina dash from full to 0 is about the distance from Velia west entrance to the black smith.

    A witch using a double teleport then putting away her weapons and sprinting, or a Ninja/Kuno using Down+Q and F and RMB for Ninja, would easily outrun a Musa. Hell, any class with 5 MS can put away their weapons and sprint to catch or outrun a dashing Musa.

    If you want to say that my statement is false, bring some evidence backing your claim on your table. Otherwise you calling my claim "the biggest ******** ever written on these forums" just makes you look like an idiot.
     
    #8 levinano, Oct 1, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2018
  9. levinano

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    It has nothing to do with BDO servers, it's the case with every online game. if you have a 100ms latency (0.1 seconds), then anything you do within that 0.1 seconds won't register on the servers. You can be dashing, jumping, iframing, SAing, FGing on your screen, but as long as someone catches you within that 0.1 second, for them, you never acted. It also means that 100/100 times, it will happen. It's not a bug, it's just a physical limitation of online gaming.
     
  10. DJ8838

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    my friend saw me going into the animation on his screen as well. and with the dash i end up at the end of my dash but cc'd
     
  11. levinano

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    Yeah I retract my statement on the servers, I’ve been CCed out of chase quite a bit too. It’s combination of your wifi, ISP, and their servers. Though I’ll still say it’s a limitation of online gaming.

    Either that or what I can conclude isn’t that the first 0.1 second and the last 0.1 seconds of chase is unprotected. If you have time maybe you can test this. Hold RMB in preawakening and have someone try to CC you. Without Chase cancel, you’re still rotating Chase but you don’t cancel out of the unprotected part at the end.

    Or perhaps CC calculation and animations are mismatched due to coding? Who knows :/
     
  12. Netreiam

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    Sure people can just sprint, sprinting out of combat is fast as/faster than many classes movement options. But, last I checked Musa can too, so just sprint out of combat and problem solved right?


    Oh wait, but that means that 1. You’re 100% vulnerable and 2. You can’t use evasive skills because you have to draw your weapon first.

    In fact most movement options that make other classes able to “catch” a musa leave them completely open to CC and can’t be used in group combat or while actively chasing someone.

    Not saying musa/maewha couldn’t use more movement but I’d say an unprotected movement alternative that isn’t stamina dependant would be a better idea.
     
  13. MoZex

    MoZex Musa 62 EU

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    Its desync. At times i can get ccd close to the end of my btb SA animation
     
  14. Rysingmoon

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    OT: Yes, please provide an actual video. It seems, Musa's dash uses 50 Stamina off CD and 100 stamina on CD. I would say every third o forth dash is on CD. With 2200 Stamina you should be able to dash 25 times. That's sufficient to dash a few rounds in RBF. No class is faster than Musa.
     
  15. levinano

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    Ok yeah you got me, I retract that statement about sprinting, but not anything else, especially other classes catching up or outrunning Blades. Regardless of whether you're protected or not, these classes can catch up. I mean, what's the Musa going to do? Shoot arrows back every once in a while and hope to stiff them long enough for them to walk over to the nearest town?

    I would be content with a bunch of unprotected movement skills and leave the dashes for combat positioning and maneuvering, but Blades don't have this right now and it's the one thing that's most frustrating as after dashing for a while you just can't do anything meaningful, a lot of attacks use stamina and evading and positioning requires stamina, which means, if you're chasing, or being chased, as a Musa, after a certain point you'll face the combat engage...with zero stamina and no ability to fight.


    With 2050 Stamina I can do 21 dashes, it is sufficient to dash around, and it is one of the fastest classes. What I meant was something more practical, like in a OW situation where you're chasing someone down or being chased, and also just any 1v1 fights that last more than 20 seconds. Dashing isn't the only thing that uses skills, if I dashed 21 times all I can do is backpedal and wait for about 11 seconds for my stamina to go back up.

    Also, you should read carefully what I said.

    1. I don't think Musa is slow
    2. I mean it when I say pretty much every other class can outrun/catch a Musa.

    Sprinting sustains but isn't fast enough, especially with movement speed buff classes.

    Dashing nets you little distance and no stamina after 6 seconds (for 2050 Stamina)

    Here's my post from the other thread:
    Short distance, Musa can catch anybody with Chase cancel, long distance, anybody can catch Musa.
    On my Plum, it took 12 seconds Awakening dash to dash from the BA's front gate to the bleachers facing it, by the end of it I was walking over and dashing once ever couple seconds due to lack of stamina. This also means if it was a fight I couldn't even fight back when the chaser caught up.

    It took my Witch 10 seconds with Spellbound Heart (which you can have on forever) stacked with Speed Spell (20s downtime) teleports (don't stack with speed buffs) and putting away her weapons and just sprinting (not useful for a fight but is great for chasing/running away). At the end of it, near full MP, still a bunch of stamina remaining. Can keep going for a long time.

    13 seconds with my Kuno using just Target Chase and Ghost step. Ninja'll be able to do it even faster by including Ninja Step every once in a while. Again, still full of resources.

    13 seconds rotating movement abilities on my Warrior. Half stamina but other resources near full.

    You can double this distance and you can see how far Blades'll fall behind after they run out of stamina half way through.

    Netreiam makes a great point that other classes' movement skills aren't viable in group fights (especially Witch's run), but I'm talking balance in terms of 1v1 OW. One character chasing the other.

    Also, keep in mind that Blades don't have grabs, iframes, stealth, a hard shield, SA damage rotations, SA/FG CC rotations, vacuums... etc... Being sold as the "fastest and most mobile class," it should be natural that they're faster than other classes and can outrun them, but this isn't the case. They are fast, probably the fastest. But they definitely can't chase down or outrun others after the stamina nerf.

    If you still need me to I can try to put together movement videos to compare speed in short distance (other classes aren't that much slower), and also what happens in the longrun (other classes can sustain and Blades run out of breath).
     
  16. WhySoSeeryus

    WhySoSeeryus Wizard 63 EU

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    provided you are not solo yoloing your teammates can punish any follower that is without weapons in their hands.
     
  17. levinano

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    I understand that BDO is a team game but when we discuss balance I'm talking about individual balance of classes. Saying teammates are a resolution to class balance is like saying "as long as you're not a loner playing alone, balance means absolutely nothing in this game and you will win if you have friends." It's not wrong, it just doesn't really address the balance of a class, especially in 1v1s.

    I see that a lot of your comments focus on the large scale aspect of balancing. They're not invalid by any means, it's just that not every play plays large scale PvP content but every player does encounter OW 1v1 PvP, that's why I propose that we address class balance not based on their functions in large scale, but rather in small scale.

    I did mention this before in other threads that balancing in BDO is a lot more complicated than most other PvP oriented games, mainly because you have to account for both the large scale PvP balance and small scale PvP balance. Regardless, my stance is that Blades are meant to be duelists, they flank and take down stragglers in large scale and theoretically should dominate 1v1s. If not, at least have the choice of running away from them. Blades, as of now, are not living up to what they were supposed to be.
     
  18. WhySoSeeryus

    WhySoSeeryus Wizard 63 EU

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    im a wizard, do you really wanna go into 1v1 class balance discussion? :)

    (i do understand your point do not get me wrong)
     
  19. Netreiam

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    Honestly what classes are compared to what they “should be” isn’t even remotely related these days.

    I do agree that 1v1 balance is extremely important though, especially since in large scale almost no individual class has as much impact as a mage class. Just goes to show how little the devs actually care about “balance”

    Imo, the wizard/witch suck at 1v1 meme is kind of outdated in this meta, especially when stacking grab resist.
     
  20. WhySoSeeryus

    WhySoSeeryus Wizard 63 EU

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    witch can stack it kindaish due to q block buff, but wizard cant that much, even with talis helmet and grab resist crystals in gloves u r still free lunch for classes with grab passives. i mean, ofc, you could go for tet+ manos neck, but....
     

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