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Ninja, Kunoichi, and other classes facepalm blatant issues

Discussion in 'PvP' started by NotBlue, Jun 3, 2018.

  1. NotBlue

    Jun 3, 2018
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    Firstly, this is not necessarily an issue about the kuno class, but more so an issue between classes.


    FG : Forward Gaurd
    SA : Super Armour


    - Has a FG stance rotation that allows them to move forward by maintaining FG, and iframes fluidly, allowing them to catch up to ranged opponents with ease.

    - Damage that opposes all possibility, 180 ninja ap vs 215 kuno ap, ninja does more damage.


    - No protected movement ability. Apart from tendon "being able to move you", kunoichi does not have any ability that allows you to get close to ranged opponents without being easily hit. ( Dance Macabre - S RMB has 80% of it unprotected, including the initial part making it useless in ranged situations like how I explain )

    - Among the low ap of classes, potentially acceptable if there was a way for us to get to enemies without being hit.

    The issue

    The issue is, even though kunoichi is a variation of ninja, it is far inferior in every aspect.

    I will use these examples:

    1) Kunoichi vs Zerker / Ranger

    2) Ninja vs Zerker / Ranger


    Kunoichi vs Zerker is close to impossible if the zerker is decent.

    Zerker, meanwhile using a SA, floating, ranged attack, disallows a kunoichi to get close, and keeps the zerker at a constant advantage, whether in close combat, or at a ranged position, the same issue appearing vsing a ranger, but even larger with the ranger easily able to damage / cc us while it is impossible for us to get even partially close if the ranger wishes to stay away and kill us.

    Kunoichi cannot get close without dying assuming the ranger is decent.

    Kunoichi used to have a protected dash, allowing them to get just slightly forwards without immediately being knocked down.


    Ninja vs Zerker simple, and "fair" as both these classes are at the pinnacle of being op in pvp currently.

    Ninja, meanwhile maintaining FG, SA, and iframes can move forwards fluidly constantly rotating FG, and use the iframe dash along side their other iframe / SA movement abilities.

    Ninja is not balanced. Ninja needs to have balanced protected abilities that allow them to get close to instantly grab their opponents.

    Overall, the issue is that difference in ability protection between classes.

    Kunoichi NEEDS a protected ability for movement.

    Does it need to have a FG rotation and every movement ability protected? Not even in the slightest, all it needs is A protected ability, ONE. ( W RMB would be best - Lunar Dash with SA, or FG, then remove the stiff off it for pvp, and keep floating on the flow without protection )

    Ninja NEEDS something changed, I can't really say what should be changed since the stance rotation would be difficult to be just changed off FG, but maybe make their dash during it not an iframe( Silent Dash ), that in my opinion would allow it to be almost balanced, movement wise.

    Now, with this change I believe they should get a buff.

    In this buff a change to their "Murderous Intent" ( SHIFT LMB in AWAKENING ).
    This buff could include extending the CD, and giving it FG allowing it to be used as movement, a protected movement that allows protection, but with the longer CD )


    Abilities talked about are in awakened


    Needs SA / FG on "Lunar Dash" - W RMB, however removing stiff for it( Balancing ), and keeping floating on the flow while keeping protection off of the flow.

    Remove iframe ( Silent Dash ) from their dash used in stance rotation, and give "Murderous Intent" - SHIFT LMB, a FG so that it can be used for protected movement to keep balance.

    Every change requires balance, and not mindless changes, if you change one thing, make sure it balanced out on one side, if you remove the iframe( Silent Dash ), ninja will need some sort of protection, at least in my opinion, changing just one part could cause unbalanced changes.

    Finally, Ninja in generally needs to do either lower damage, or assist kuno in the same way that ninja is, simply put ninja does significantly more damage than kunos as a fact, and you can ask any player that.

    Thank you for reading, and try to not give random feed back, if you disagree, or agree, please say why, and explain if possible ♥
  2. WhySoSeeryus

    WhySoSeeryus Wizard 64 EU

    Jan 31, 2018
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    so, what you are saying is that ninja and zerker need to be nerfed. agreed. :D
    Souda and WastedJoker like this.
  3. Tigreton

    Jul 16, 2017
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    Kuno vs Zerker xD
  4. RysingCrow

    RysingCrow Warrior 50 NA

    Mar 3, 2016
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    By silent dash I believe you mean "Silent Charge" Quite Frankly if you got rid of silent Charge's Iframe it wouldn't change a single thing I am always surprised when it works. It hardly ever works. The only time there is an iframe is when the movement happens. I have died because the server or my own pc lagged and it decided the attacker beat my timing which is fine it happens. However.. one of the only positives to ninja that he has good lateral movement. He can stance dance with transiton stance and ghost step but in reality at this point in the game that is my only secure defense aside from Ninja Step which doesn't always work sometimes. Silent Charge compared to every other defensive option to ninja is a meme.

    Also what? Ninja only has a few viable damage options in awakening. Almost all of our damage comes from Serpent Ascension which is completely unsafe if used at any point where your opponents aren't already CC'd. Seamless combined with Corrupt Sword Dance and Sudden Decapitation's seamless stance versions don't do enough damage at high end for the former and for the latter are way too slow and have the CCs count towards the total amount of CCs. In fact I would trade the CC on seamless and seameless stance skills for more damage and making them quicker so I could actually use them. Aside from that we share pre-awaken mostly. Ankle Cut, Shadowstomp, Shadow Clone(In that order) does way more damage than anything from awakening for both of us lol.

    The problem that would arise if kunoichi had the same damage potential as ninja would be the problem that Kuno would run in and spin a pack of 3-5 people in a blink of an eye in awakening and have the same 1v1 tools as ninja when swapping to pre awakening annihilating them and if for whatever reason someone was alive they could just blockjump then kill and congrats you have a no brain class. Kuno is good at putting out decent damage to a larger group of enemies and then using pre awakening to put the hurt on in 1v1. I would go so far as to say Kuno is better in a team fight on average. If a ninja doesn't pick his target right and kills too slow he is as good as dead. In fact there are some kunos in RBF that carry entire teams because they camp stealth then blow people up in awakening then swap to pre awakening to kill the few stragglers then use oni shadow to get out before they are even touched.

    My suggestion is to re-evaluate your toolkit and try thinking outside the box maybe practice in RBF and duel some friends. Both ninja and kuno are both in great places because by comparison.. everyone else sucks as much as we did. Kneecaping ninja with less damage, one less movement ability, and giving us a very weak FG as a substitute isn't doing anyone a favor. Kuno is already in a perfectly fine spot. We just have different roles in a fight is all.
    KrimsonSky likes this.
  5. RysingCrow

    RysingCrow Warrior 50 NA

    Mar 3, 2016
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    What is there to nerf? If you take our damage away then we can't kill anyone. If you take any more defense away we will just die before we get a chance to hit them with our pool noodle if we have less damage. Do you just want ninja deleted? I think that is what you are asking at this point.
  6. Elias Klargus

    Aug 10, 2016
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    Just take silent charge i-frame away if people wanna keep crying about it. If you people actually played ninja you would know that that i-frame is almost nonexistent so im perfectly glad to give it up to shut you up :p
  7. Goobur

    Aug 29, 2017
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    ....So you either want Ninja to "assist" you? Or be below you? Kuno was very strong previous to this patch and now that you have to re-learn your class, you want ninja to be nerfed? You guys are still strong, just L2P, like in the video .
  8. Tvvin

    Apr 16, 2016
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    FG during murderous intent?Sounds like a buff.

    Remove slient charge I frame?You know you're a skilled ninja when you got people complaining about good use of our small iframe window LOL or is the op one of those guys that used bdo codex and assumed it was a full iframe?

    Regardless another trash thread from someone who have no idea what their talking about and deserves no attention. Guy didn't even get the name right"facepalm"
    Wylph likes this.

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