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Ninja needs a nerf

Discussion in 'Ninja' started by easay9, Jul 6, 2019.

  1. Monsieur

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    ninja doesnt need nerfs, imo an assassin with the same evasion buffs as a frontlinier paired with insane damage is pretty balanced and fine

    /s
     
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  2. Nagasaki

    Nagasaki Ninja

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    you have zero git-gud issues!

    /s
     
  3. Spartakatz

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    could you elaborate that?
    can't you wear the same armors as other classes so you think u have less defense?
    do you have lesser defense buffs than other classes?
    do you have a lack of iframes that completely negate everything?

    this fairytale has to stop. your selfbuffs 18% smokescreen + 10% passive + addon are the equivalent of around 160 evasion (!!)

    if you were actually squishy for that burst and mobility, it would be ok, but in reality it's the opposite.
     
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  4. Dersidius

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    can't you wear the same armors as other classes so you think u have less defense?
    I was going to answer this question.. but after re-reading I'm not sure I understand what you're asking

    do you have lesser defense buffs than other classes?
    That would depend completely on what type of defense you're looking for. In terms of DR, there's no additional benefits for Ninja. In terms of Evasion, there's all the buffs listed above... It should go without being said though, that evasion is swiftly dropping out of the meta due to all the built in accuracy in the succession kits. If you haven't heard yet, PA intends to re-balance the awakening kits of every class to have similar performance.

    this fairytale has to stop. your selfbuffs 18% smokescreen + 10% passive + addon are the equivalent of around 160 evasion (!!)
    You're correct that these are nice buffs, however I question the 160 evasion number you arrived at. Also, I feel like you're misguided on the real-world results of those buffs regardless of the actual figure. Unfortunately, any class running C9 PEN boss armor, with a PEN Green helment was completely untouchable for anybody that didn't have 300+ AP or a really good accuracy skill. Fortunately, succession mitigates this issue very well.

    if you were actually squishy for that burst and mobility, it would be ok, but in reality it's the opposite.
    I run around at 277 / 279 / 297. I can assure you, regardless of what buffs I have up, If I'm trading SA's with someone above 290AP, I get 1 shotted. I duel frequently with a valk friend that has 303AP, and everyone within my circle of play is 600+ GS. I feel I have a very good experience set to talk about this issue in length.

    My point is, the class doesn't make you tanky, gear does, the evasion meta just ment ninja could achieve the same result with C6 Pen armor vs C9 Pen armor because of the evasion buffs listed above.

    Since we're in a DR meta again, I think you should re-evaluate your complaints since DR meta's tend to be a lot tougher for ninjas.


    Now, with all that being said, if you want something real to complain about for ninjas. If you aren't at at least 320DP, you will get 1 shotted by a fully buffed, 285+ AP ninja with BSB, without being caught.

    But the same can be said about a lot of succession classes now. The bar has just been raised in terms of what gear you need to not get melted.
     
    #524 Dersidius, Jan 16, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2020
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  5. Spartakatz

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    point is - every class use same equipment, so when talking about tankiness or squishiness, it all comes down to protections and self buffs. just because you think of "assassin" and they're being squishy in other games, it doesn't apply to BDO.

    there are plenty of tests, see https://www.reddit.com/r/blackdesertonline/comments/96q8t8/bdo_hit_chance_formula_calculator/
    1% dodge rate equals around 5 evasion.
    that's really the only thing that makes classes like ninja, kuno, striker, mystic, musa, maehwa and sorc so extremely tanky.
    btw i have full c9 pen boss, and ninja with 26x can easily flatten me (next to some other classes, sorc and ranger can easily burst that too)

    297 dp is trash, that was ok 1-2 years ago. that's what people have now after 2 months or so. you don't even notice evasion gear at that DP.
    and again - SA is not very good, especially not in high end pvp, indeed you get 1shotted through it. that's exactly why iframes are SO powerful.

    I am at 367 DP now, 261 is all a ninja needs for that, probably even less.

    you're right, a lot of succs have very high damage now. but they don't have massive iframes and those ridiculously high evasion buffs that add a whole enhance level to your gear, that's fact, or do you really want to discuss with all testers out there like bigandshiny who did endless tests, that are reproducable?

    sorc and musa have no grab, warrior, mystic and striker no or not much iframes, but ninja has everything, it's out of balance. there should be some drawback, but burst + protection + movement + grab + tankiness is too much.
     
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  6. Warshade Z

    Warshade Z GhostHammer Ninja 63 NA

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    Yeah, no. I have 273ap and BSB still does even come close to 1-shotting my 297dp buddy on his DK (which is 2 levels below my ninja even). Get outta here with that ********.
     
  7. Dersidius

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    there are plenty of tests, see https://www.reddit.com/r/blackdesertonline/comments/96q8t8/bdo_hit_chance_formula_calculator/
    1% dodge rate equals around 5 evasion.
    that's really the only thing that makes classes like ninja, kuno, striker, mystic, musa, maehwa and sorc so extremely tanky.
    btw i have full c9 pen boss, and ninja with 26x can easily flatten me (next to some other classes, sorc and ranger can easily burst that too)

    This is why succession mitigates evasion.. that's the point I'm making.. Which is why I'm also very confused about you complaining about evasion in the first place.

    297 dp is trash, that was ok 1-2 years ago. that's what people have now after 2 months or so. you don't even notice evasion gear at that DP.
    and again - SA is not very good, especially not in high end pvp, indeed you get 1shotted through it. that's exactly why iframes are SO powerful.

    SA's are great. It's the skill primary subset that every trades damage with. And yea, 297 isn't great DP. But no, it's not 2 months worth of game time. Probably more like a year starting from scratch. If you're complaining about dying through SA, it doesn't sound like you actually have C9 Pen gear.


    I-frames are also a very ping dependent issue. If you're blessed with West Coast ping, yea sure, your iframes are going to be OP vs all the 60+ ping peasants in the rest of the game. But when you're at 60+ ping, the SA that starts and ends all the iframes in the kit, starts to become very noticeable. So from your average ninja's POV. They're getting killed through their I-frames anyways.

    I am at 367 DP now, 261 is all a ninja needs for that, probably even less.
    Yep, succession is great, as it is for all classes...

    you're right, a lot of succs have very high damage now. but they don't have massive iframes and those ridiculously high evasion buffs that add a whole enhance level to your gear, that's fact, or do you really want to discuss with all testers out there like bigandshiny who did endless tests, that are reproducable?
    Massive iframes? Ghost step is about 100MS, and is preceded and followed by SA.
    The evasion buffs are useless unless you make it to the full c9 gear level, at which point, moot point, because all other classes are just as tanky.
    Bigandshiny is a good friend of mine, we go way back to beta, talk to him quite often. I'm not sure what you're trying to prove though, with quoting his name, but not actually quoting any of his tests?

    sorc and musa have no grab, warrior, mystic and striker no or not much iframes, but ninja has everything, it's out of balance. there should be some drawback, but burst + protection + movement + grab + tankiness is too much.
    Ninja's grab is useless in close combat, and has less damage scaling then a succession musa. Mystic is blessed with giant AOE's that don't match the animations and no SA gaps if they choose to play it that way. Striker has 100% accuracy on clone damage and get away with sub soft cap ap builds with full DP ranging in the 380+ area. Every class has it's advantages. Finally, the same way you get blown up in C9 gear, or , so you say, a ninja would just the same. That's what succesion does.

    The draw back to ninja is the learning curve, first and foremost, which is why it still ranks very low on play charts. Second, it has only two frontal guards in succession, so you can actually just out gear and melt him. Third, anything less then 285 with full buffs, you can immediately V out of the combo before it kills you because the ninja needs to float you. Forth, 1 SA ability that's actually worth using for damage without catch, but again, need to be at 285, with full buffs.

    Now I wouldn't say ninja isn't a very good class, it definitely is. But anyone waving the nerf banner for any class doesn't have a great persepctive of the end game pvp scene. I've seen all classes shine in pvp at the top end. I feel you're being very ingenious about solidarity of ninja being a solo problem that everyone can agree needs a nerf.
     
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  8. Dersidius

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    273 and 285 is a completely different ballpark, and I also did mention full buffs, ie.

    Villa,
    House buffs
    Perfume
    Giant
    Church Buffs
     
  9. Crusador

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    I can explain that. You are very very easy to get caught in succession. With defense I dont mean DP or evasion. I simply mean the lack of possibility to defend yourself against cc like ninja was able to with awakening
     
  10. Xenon

    Xenon Kallitren Ninja 61 NA

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    Replies in red, inside the quote block.

    Things to add in red.
     
  11. Crusador

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    Well this post was about Ninja. I got no idea about Kuno. The thing is Ninja deals too much dmg with low ap...its simply nonesense to 1 combo an enemy with 320dp while having 225 ap....this shouldnt be possible for any class
     
  12. Crusador

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    What ? xD
     
  13. Doomz

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    How is ninja dmg even an issue these days???
    I have 373 dp on my ninja and a trial archer, sorc, musa, zerker and who knows what other classes can 1 combo me???
    but ninja is broken?
    My own class is one of the few classes that actually can't 1 combo me on a trial char, but hey ninja damage is an issue like sure dude.
    Are you even aware of the state of the game?
    Or are you still stuck in 2017, I'm sorry to tell you but that time has passed.

    PS, stop using 297-331 DP range as example of being able to 1 combo, any trial char can 1 combo that kind of dp IF THEY KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING, not newbs.
     
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  14. Nagasaki

    Nagasaki Ninja

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    Well before they said 160ap could one-combo. Atleast now they went up to 225.
    I’m sure the person was Z+E buffed plus body enhancements and elixirs. But let’s ignore all that. 160-225 ap! No pen is safe!
    Next, ninja op! Ninja with black abyssal weapon killed me! I’m full pen blackstar armor 700dp!
     
  15. Artorias_Dusk

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    I think most succession classes can 1combo now with around 230-250AP. Ofc its not possiblw to 1combo a 346 evasion wiz or so
     
  16. Spartakatz

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    plenty exaggerations in both ways. 225 ap does hardly cut it, but also a trial ninja has surely not less burst than a trial zerker or so, and surely not "only class who can't 1combo" lmao
    it's so blatantly obvious if u play the game a bit.
     
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  17. BuShiDo

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    To all the cry babies in this thread:

    [​IMG]

    There is at least one of you in every thread and nearly every one of you is a big hypocrite because when there are complaints about your class you either defend it or ignore the complaints.

    You snow flakes represent a small percentage of the total number of people playing your class. That means the majority of people playing the same class as you have means of dealing with ninjas. This alone invalidates your whining. Suck it up butter cups and learn the game.
     
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  18. Wollbert

    Wollbert Ranger 62 EU

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    what a bullcrap. shows how obsolet it is to talk with ninjaplayers
     
  19. Dersidius

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    Sorry, I meant that Suicide fall is useless in Group* Combat.

    Didn't take time to proof read.

    Do me a favor, open https://www.merriam-webster.com/ and copy / paste the definition for the word "obsolete" back into this thread..
     
  20. Jannanomana

    Jannanomana Jannanomana Witch 62 EU

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    remove ninja grab, and reduce evasion buff
     

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