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PA has confirmed it

Discussion in 'Mystic' started by Hypotermia, Jun 8, 2019.

  1. Bnna

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    naaaaah dude its fine you just need to l2p. they are all wrong, mystic is balanced i promise :3
     
    LightsOut likes this.
  2. Hypotermia

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    Its not pointless but information is limited but it will also give us quite lot to work with and give us direction how she is in light of some statistics and brings us back to the point that in large scale she is not deadly as many claim. Many ppl that i know who has high end gear and been saying this for very long time that she cant kill but she cant die.
     
  3. Bnna

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    this actually does look like normal people dueling, where the valk wins roughly 2-1, but then you realize the valk outgears by 60 rs and has 5k hp with 360+ dp :D
     
  4. Hypotermia

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    And yet 1v1 which is close to irrelevant when talking about PvP balance. Developers never have and most likely never will try to balance out PvP around 1v1 because its even more impossible than large scale. Just like blizzard removed 1v1 arena from balance and rewards due they had no chance of balancing it in anyway.

    Do you know how much dmg valks do in large scale? 100% is busted and 25% is even more busted
     
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  5. Nabuch

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    Nah, but we can assume hundreds of KR's 600gs players don't have different meta than 100 of their most geared players. We know how Mystic scales with gear after all, shouldn't be much different.

    I mentioned the lower geared players that want to get class carried too, so I never thought it was KDR of the 100 players. But it gives us general idea of who the most geared players meet. And I'm fairly sure the majority of their data comes from Arsha channel and NWs/sieges. After all, Arsha channel was introduced when they made changes to CCs/introduced Renown. It was their data-harvesting server. Why do you think they give people 50% more drop there? To make people WANT TO fight for the spots. More fights = more data.
     
    #65 Nabuch, Jun 13, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2019
  6. Nabuch

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    Frankly, after reading first two points I wanted to reply, but in the process of doing that I realized I'm just copypasting my previous response. You just didn't understand the basic logic behind it. You can go back to... Oasis Festival? KDR charts released by Pearl Abyss. I believe even KR dev briefly mentioned that these KDR charts don't represent actual class strength, they just give an idea where to look.

    PS. While scrolling I saw your 10. and it proves that you are absolutely delusional. 41 out of 100 top KR players play the class PRECISELY because it's strong. It's strong BECAUSE it's versatile. It's 80% of top class in everything, and pulls ahead in all kinds of content when full PEN C9. You're just too pleb to understand how filthy Mystic becomes at 620+ gs.

    Edit: I was expecting people like you to misinterpret statistics but lemme ask you one hypothetical question. If Archer had 5x more ranged and maybe protected KDs on his kit but 1/5th of the damage, do you think he would be OP? KDR isn't everything. And I gave you several reasons why Mystic's KDR doesn't represent her strength. KR devs know it, since they NERFED HER SEVERAL TIMES in the recent months (Twisted Collision nerf, Space nerf, Frenzy nerf, evasion nerf), even though there are 6 classes with higher KDR that were clearly untouched by balance patches. Why? Because I'm right, and you're exactly the reason PA doesn't release these anymore (they used to, once at Oasis Festival and then after DK was in the game for a few months)
     
    #66 Nabuch, Jun 13, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2019
  7. Hypotermia

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    Im understanding basic logic behind it.. Very well.

    Just like many many many players have claimed for months how Mystic has everything, high dmg output, sustain, tankiness and so on.
    Which this statistic proves. Mystic has no DMG which is compensated for her to be slightly more tankier. She is combo class with no real burst. In 1v1 she can perform better but in large scale she has nothing else going other than vacum.

    She is good in PvP and been balanced after the Twisted Collision FG was removed and even before that she wasn't big issue.

    Do you really think that all the Mystics out there are playing because she is OP in PvP? She is good in PvP but at the same time she is top 3 grinder in Hystria and strongest Hystria grinder with low AP which brings to the fact that MANY players rolled her just to grind hystria and many will continue to do that.

    Issue wasn't the PvP aspect anymore. Issue was the PvE balance. If all classes were withing 100-300 trash per hour in hystria at softcap and above levels. Mystic numbers would be around 7-8/100 top geared players

    Let me ask you. If you could make 80-100m per hour or 50m per hour which would you pick? I think the higher number is better.

    Then there is the awesome design of scaling. Mystic like all other summon classes scale according fixed AP. This means that at lower gear levels where well players are not bothering to read even patch notes or know class changes will go "this class is op because he won me because we have same gear" mentality. This combined with the fact that Mystic has natural tankiness at her side.

    Fixed AP scaling on summon classes is failure design for 2 reasons. First early on they might have too much dmg but later on they fall of heavily. And this is exactly what happens with Mystic in PvP. After softcap AP she starts falling really hard in terms of DMG and her only option is to take advantage of the evasion passive and buffs from skills and abandon AP and go more heavier to evasion.

    Let me ask you this. Do you have 620 GS mystic? Have you fought against 620-650 GS players? Because i have checked those both. I admit im not the world best player but i know exactly what happens if Mystic fails to land the CC and one combo her target after one CC. Mystic cannot go SA trading because her DMG is not enough out trade her opponent. Even 300 AP Mystic gets out damaged by 270 AP Musa.

    Frenzy was not a nerf. It was a bug fix. Let me ask you. Smite pretty much 10 shotted fort and ppl used it and when that exploit got fixxed did you call it a nerf?

    There are 6-9 classes higher than Mystic in KDR is because their dmg out put is extremely high which comes to the fact that they're lacking in another area.

    Let me ask you this then. Why isn't Archer nerffed already? Hm? He is clearly over tuned in PvP. Its been months since his buffs and when he was released. So where is the balance adjustment? OH yeah PA is taking their sweet time doing it which you fail to understand.
    Or how nerffin Ninja ended up nerffing kuno too while she is weaker than Ninja. How about Ninja iframes or Sorc iframes? Or how about Witch/Wizard/Valk protected area?

    And to answer your question. If Archer had 1/5th of his dmg but more ranged skills and protection he would weak af. He is so strong because his dmg is so high with the ranged CC. He is opposite of Mystic. High DMG, ranged CC but squishiest class in game. Protected skills means nothing if you another class flat out kill you while using them and if FG cannot absorb more than few first hits of skill
     
    #67 Hypotermia, Jun 13, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2019
  8. WhySoSeeryus

    WhySoSeeryus Wizard 62 EU

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    for the person that claimed 1v1 is irrelevant and that mass scale is everything, how do you fail to see what cancer that imaginary archer would be in that scenario?
     
  9. Hypotermia

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    If class has huge amount of protected skills and deals absolutely no dmg. Is that OP? No its not.

    Cancer i can agree with it. It could be really annoying to fight against with classes that has no good mobility or grab to catch him.

    But even if the Archer got you CC and would only tickle you. How would that be OP?

    Different story would be if the Archer had perma CC combo like that he could keep targets CC'd for minute to kill it. Then i would consider the combo being too strong and it would be needed to nerf but compensated in another area.

    Cancer to fight against does not equal OP.

    Let me ask you this. LoL example. You're balancing 3 bruiser/tank type of champions in LoL. You got winrate data to go on.

    Champion A has 52% winrate
    Champion B has 40% winrate
    Champion C has 43% winrate

    Now tell me. Is the Champion A OP because he has highest winrate?

    This exactly could be said about BDO. Frontliners like Warrior or Valkyrie are lacking something that makes them not so great in their role if they're considered as frontliners (bruisers or tanks). Where the issue is? I cant tell because i have not played either of those classes. One thing i can say is that because currently evasion is stronger than DR as stat which means Warrior and Valkyrie who got best block in game and are considered classes that want to go DR cannot really effectively go.

    This is stat balance issue. When PA removed renown they ended up nerffing DR too much. Even then evasion was strong stat but these two defensive stats were much closer together. Easy solution is either introduce softcap on evasion or buff DR like 10% and see what happens.

    If neither of these two classes were in better state they would be miles ahead of Mystics. Also warrior PvE grinding is not great which even more makes the class not so wanted.

    If i think what is too strong about Mystic its her Vacum. Not Crouching wolf, Not twisted collision, Not wolfs frenzy, Not her tankiness and so on.
    If i had to change something about her i would revert crouching and change vacum slightly. I would increase radius of vacum but make it suck once to center and after that player can run away or keep it as it is but allow players to iframe it or make it shorter duration
     
    #69 Hypotermia, Jun 14, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2019
  10. WhySoSeeryus

    WhySoSeeryus Wizard 62 EU

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    in a mass fight, where there is a blob of people that will delete u when u get ccd, yes, it is a good team character.
     
  11. Hypotermia

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    And not like the enemy plob wouldn't have archer as support in that scenario?

    If the archer dealt absolutely 1/5th of the dmg that he deals now and has higher CC / Protection he would be useless AF. Not that hard to block majority of the poke especially if it wont even scratch your block
     
  12. 2Cents

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    Sounds legit, the highest geared players on the server just randomly all choose Mystic. We know people don't roll FOTM and vaccuum right to OP classes so it must be RNG.

    Meanwhile a Musa ganks and gets flattened because they got caught unprotected and instantly destroyed (true story many times), yet THIS NEVER HAPPENS with Mystic/Striker because of the built in defenses and bullsht magic bonus for no reason.

    You shouldn't be able to see ONLY an HP bar and be able to immediately identify what defective class you are fighting. Keep in mind this doesn't work for Tamer, Musa, Sorc, WARRIOR, VALK.
     
  13. Hekki

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    Musa, Tamerer, Sorc are not tanks. So what are you talk about?
    Why you does not mention absurd like EVA ninja is more tanky than all of the tank classes in this game?

    Warrior and Valk are trash because DR does not work. At this point Mystic is in a bit better position because she rely on both DR and EVA, not just DR as Warrior and Valk. Also Shield does not working for no reason.

    Magic bonus have very good reason. It her unique tanking utility. Same as shield for Valk and HP bonus for berserker.

    And in the end your complains about Mystic defence are completely nonsense. Still anny AP monkey can delete mystic on single combo, same as every other class, same as every tank class. Because in the DR in this broken game does not work.
     
  14. Asterotis

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    added something for you :'D As a DP/Eva Mystic I know this too well..
     
  15. 2Cents

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    There has never been any justification for magic defense boost in either Striker or Mystic. They don't lack anything in exchange for it. Striker is one of the highest burst dmg classes and can easily 1 combo any magic user. The SAME can not be said against striker. Magic based classes are massively nerfed against them.

    If Striker/Mystic are going to have this "magic bonus" let them do Shai dmg as they properly should for having such an advantage. In the current meta you CAN NEVER survive any Striker combo with a high AP. You are just making up bs in saying it works the same way for magic users.

    And why would a Ninja, one of the most arguably over powered classes not be at any disadvantage to Mystic/Striker while a Witch with no grab and bottom tier 1v1 takes the hit? Doesn't make ANY SENSE AT ALL TO DO THIS. You would have to be completely incompetent to do that.............ala Pearl Abyss.
     
  16. Dexo 2

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    There are no tanks in this game, only gear makes u tanky. Devs have never said mystic is a tank class, no idea where u getting all this fake info from.
    @Hekki
     
  17. Asterotis

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    It was from the KR players from the initial release and the fact that Mystic could weave her FG in great succession, combined with stacking her with DP and her DR and Magic resist against Witch/Wiz, despite her slightly lower AP than Striker, she made up for it with her "Jack of all trades, master of none." gimmick.
    Of course that's different now, given most of her nerfs over the year or so.
     
  18. Hekki

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    It is topic about Mystic, not Striker. Mystic have lowest DMG in game, even among other tanks. Do not blame Mystic for Striker burst. Go on Striker forum complain why he have magic resistance while it is pure DPS class. Mystic have different role - she is tank. And she was overnerfed, same as other tanks.

    Shai role is support, not tank or DPS.

    Ask for that PA. But role of tank is survive on first line, while role of ninja is eliminate back line. Mystic should be tanky. And Ninja should be squishy but should have great utility and it work differently in this broken game. Role of Witch is provide AoE DMG and support so her role is definitly not 1vs1.
    Asking for 1vs1 equality for AoE and range clas is asking for completely OP class that is great at everything.
     
  19. Amirite

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    Mystic is still fear by many players, in my observation. I had Wiz calling me hate names when I show up at a grind spot, and see other just retreat or run when you come and you start killing mobs like an Uzi out of control

    Just saying, that's my observation and I am not saying she is OP or anything, but Mystic still got the rep. as strong class in game.

    /功夫片
     
    #79 Amirite, Sep 12, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2019
  20. 2Cents

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    Lets never forget the stem of nearly every single problem, Pearl Abyss's complete incompetence. In a more properly designed game you don't turn every single class into a massive DD by broken scaling. This idea that Mystic does poor damage is just a cover up and complete bull sht. A high AP mystic will out damage nearly everyone in both PVP and PVE.

    A Witch doesn't get half an hour to pummel their target either. It's pathetic to see everyone defending Mystic to intentionally never recognize a HUGE PORTION OF DAMAGE IN BDO is from CC'd targets. That's why grabs are so WTFPWN. Nor do these liars in defense of Mystics ever address the fact that MAGIC CLASSES DO POOR DAMAGE against MYSTIC.

    That's shallow and lame. Defenders of Mystic literally say THEY are the ones with low damage, while it's the OTHER classes doing minimal damage. It's just pathetic.
     

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