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Discussion in 'Patch Notes' started by CM Yukimura, May 9, 2018.
lol what 20%???
you better stop thinking and trying the changes out before posting or forming an opinion or else all these players will call you names and then quit the forums too.
It's hilarious how they are trying to do PVP balance when gear is #1, then class, level, and distant fourth is skill. So anyone on these forums complaining about time invested, learning classes, and skill being gone have been playing a different game since +20 gear was introduced, and are only lying to themselves. As to the time invested, 80% of players currently at gear "softcap" got there in less then 7 months anyhow, and if you arnt there yet, its solely due to your lack of financial investment into this game.
First of all, no one has all pen gear, so HTF can they balance anything. Next, ever since I read their statement on how they don't want people to know dmg numbers and want to keep everything pvp related hidden etc...I knew they were going for a PUBG type of game, how could you guys not see it??
Look at PUBG numbers revenue and playerbase, then look at Black deserts...They want PUBGs money but they don't realize they did it with the wrong audience, we are mmorpg'ers not DOTA, or PUBG pvp types...how anyone didnt know this game was going to be simplified like this has had their head in the sand for a good year an a half now.
This Patch sounds terrible from mmorpg pvp, and pve perspective...for a game like PUBG, DOTA, or many other such titles that can found to draw in a large playerbase and grand streams of revenue, this sound about correct...
I dont think this strategy will work well for Pearl Abyss...but i could be wrong, All I know is I'm done here as well.
Not even lmao. For example tamers got one protected damage skill ( a frontal guard) on awakening stance with 12s CD, rest is side dash and cloud stomp/ride, those last 2 with 500% x6 and 500%x3 respectively lmao.
4 protected mobility skills, 1 protected damage which is great, I can move around all I want but wait...
Look at witch, 4 protected damage skills with larger AOE, with less cooldown, 2 SA 2 FG, and only one with more CD (at 13s), others at 6s 6s and 11s respectively, and they still got double teleport which puts them at other side of planet, alright. By the way, their teleports stayed invicible while our equivalent cloud ride (with higher CD btw) got changed to super armor which means we're not going anywhere if a mystic decides to use their pull.
They just completely dumpstered most classes and you call it fair, because what, 2 or 3 classes had more SAs than necessary ?
I hear ya! I can only play one game at a time so BDO is on the back burner for me atm.... More likely I will come back to it in couple of months.... Im kinda at a stale mate at end game anyways...I hit softcap and im almost 62 as is that im gona take a break from bdo... lol....
With quick look on my kuno's skills not much really changed, if i count all pre-awa, awa and abso skills i get like 7-8 skills with SA effect, the way i see this is that it promotes more or less constant stance dance.
The two good things about this game were the graphics and the pvp combat system. I tried some RBF this morning and I can safely say that this patch completely screwed the combat system. I will wait until the 'balancing' patches are complete but if you don't magically make these changes work or revert to a playable build I'll be quitting also.
renown been out how long now? renown still here...yep taking a few mos break form bdo as well haha I be back in game in 3 mos and get my last 20% to 62 then
New game: WHY does the patch suck specifically? Give examples so your feedback isn't just glossed over as useless.
let's do a strike, do not play until they do something right.
Before renown system.... my 230 ap w/ kutum was fine in pvp... I had no problem killing anyone in pvp.... renown system gets pushed.... I have lost every single pvp fight so far..... "takes a break from bdo"
This has never worked in the history of gaming.
People will either play it, or do a hard quit.
There's no inbetween, lol.
lol ya I get that... but even tho I play since beta I stil have to hit lvl 60 lol but then again have 7 0r 8 characters lol all around lvl 50 , lvl 56-57 Sorc and and 2 (Zerker- Ninja) and they are at lvl 13 since launch lol and all with crappy gear cant even enter Valencia without being one shotted
so did very little PVP just running around Solo or with a few friends , and as long as BDO is FUN for me I stick around
the moment it stops being fun I quit
I really hope these changes are reconsidered for the health of the game and I do hope this gets the attention of someone on the development team. Despite all its very obvious stability issues and a shallow well of content, Black Desert Online was the most fun in an mmo I've had in a long time. This was thanks to its fast pace Tab-targetless combat with classes that even though all felt like ap monkeys late game, still felt diverse enough in their design to convince me it was an entirely different class. Of course, the game had its issues, and still has some of its dust covered issues. If I did not have as much fun with this game's combat, I could have moved on shortly after the game's NA launch. After 2 years, I'm still here, but that might change very quickly with these last few patches.
Constant super armors and iframe rotations, 1-combo spams and other issues could seem annoying from certain perspectives, and in certain experiences they truly are annoying, but it served as something to play around instead of button mashing. This demand to pay attention to detail during a fight and react during "gaps in the armor" made the pvp combat more entertaining than it could have been if this was nothing but button mashing. Of course the game in this state had serious balancing issues, but most of those issues were not shared across every single class in the game. The biggest set of issues, at the very least in my opinion, was the ridiculous number of design advantages one class collectively had over others which made said class more popular and more difficult to deal with, which then lead to there being a large gap between class performance and popularity. Unfortunately, this is in every game of each genre where there is more than 1 loadout, class or build. Otherwise every option would be identical to the next and that sometimes can lead to a very boring game as much as I know there are some people who would love BDO to be "completely skill based". There will always been some kind of overwhelming meta, that is just how competitive games are, but it is good to see that they can tell when that meta gap is way too big. From my understanding, these pvp rework patches were released with the intention of lessening that gap. However, from the way these patches look to me, I think the development team understands there at the very least was an issue, but they did not understand what it was, why it was causing an imbalance or why what they thought was potentially the problem was really not. (Which is much better than being completely oblivious to there even being a problem.)
Lets move back to the very first patch, April 18, 2018, where the changing to pvp started to take place. The crowd control effects were limited to 3 effects with the exception of stiffness, which could have been used infinitely. From what I understood, this was an attempt to break the 1-combo dependency for most classes as repeating the same few skills to win a fight (or to lose a fight) was not very fun. This was a good attempt to have players change their combos, but it backfired, horribly. There are 2 reasons why I think this happened. The first being just before the patch, each class had different high damaging points within their "1-combo" that came sooner or later than other classes. Of course, this could easily become irrelevant once certain gear score is achieved, but not everyone has that high enough damage accessible to them, so I'm making the analysis with "not enough damage to 1-shot, but enough damage to kill in a full combo" in mind. For some classes, their highest burst comes right at the beginning of their assault, between the 1st and 4th attack or so that will stun/stiff/down at the same time, assuming the attacks were not blocked or resisted/evaded, while the damage from others comes most effectively once the target has already taken a few debuffs, or has fallen on the ground or has been grabbed, so their highest damaging skills will be saved for that moment and the first few attacks of their assault will be repeated until the desired outcome can be seen. By limiting crowd control to 3 effects (now being 2), there was no new combo that looked enticing to try in place of the old. Instead, there was only clutching to what was left of that "1-combo" that was still proving useful in a realistic scenario. Restricting your options does not make opportunities for new ones. There was also a much bigger gap made between the classes because of the limitations to combos as the highest burst came sooner or later across classes. This is what I've noticed that goes into a viable combo across all classes: engage, crowd control, safety and lastly damage. Unfortunately, all of these things are in the "1-combo" that is repeated, with few variations, that need to be present during almost the entire assault. Engage is needed because you cant go on the offensive without some form of attack that allows you to capitalize on your opponent's mistake in an instant. Your engage needs both crowd control to secure your offensive potential and safety in the form of super armor, iframe, animation cancel to retreat, frontal block, case if something goes wrong (failed cc, target moved away or is preparing a counter attack, anything that could result in the aggressor taking serious damage). Lastly, the combination of skills you're using need to be efficient in damage at some point in your assault because if you're not doing damage when you are attacking, what are you doing? Limiting cc's to 3 (2) only frightens players to stick to this formula more closely and cling to the much shorter combinations of skills that still fit this formula instead of trying to broaden their horizons as their options are taken away from them and some classes definitely suffer more from only having 2 cc's to engage with than others, enough though most of the classes do suffer from this. With the addition of renown score bonuses, rabam and jin skills, players do not have enough durability to take any risks in a fight outside of this formula, which is a shame since I found that the rabam and jin skills actually added many opportunities for new combos that were much more fun and visually appealing, and even used several of them (and ate some) in open world pvp feeling like they were viable. If diversity in combos was what was to be advertised with the patch, buffing/reworking less popular skills and/or nerfing specific parts of an overwhelmingly secure combo in regards to either damage, cooldown or offensive or defensive properties might have been a less dangerous approach that could harm the game. This could potentially have players weigh their options for certain combos. It also allows one to carefully examine a class to determine if it has any advantages that are too much, such as being too safe to punish on mistakes for example, or how available is a certain ability or buff or even something as simple as if a certain skill deal way too much damage for what it risks. Placing a focus on these for each class individually could work much better for lessening the gap between classes instead of taking away the same options from everyone despite how their class was originally designed to function.
Now for this patch, the changes to defensive skills, if I am to be honest, was one of the worst mistakes that could have ever been done. I actually began to wonder if the development team follows their game enough to understand how high damage players do to each other, and the patch coming next week, I am VERY worried because I am beginning to wonder if they do not understand what part of their combat makes the pvp in BDO entertaining. As enraging as 13 chained crowd control effects and near-invincibility can be, they are the only thing that is keeping this fast paced combat as fun as it could be. Most engagements in pvp involve keeping your own options for combos and cooldowns in mind as well as your opponents and the details within those combos. This has players try to predict each other's attempts at assault, when they'll retreat, when they'll press the attack and allows for opportunities to outplay each other. This does not limit itself to small scale fights either, as chaotic as medium to large scale fights might seem at times. "Memorizing" other classes is beneficial in any competitive game as simply having the knowledge about your opponent's opportunities and options will not turn the fight into 2 dudes hitting each other randomly with zero strategy, forethought or kind of preparation at all until someone dies (That is the game style what we call face-rolling, which kills a competitive game). Memorizing several classes is not a problem when it comes to pvp, in fact it is a big positive part of it that influences how players play. It could be difficult, but then that falls to the ability of the player, not necessarily the game. Saying otherwise would be like saying "I don't want to remember that the warrior has really good counter-engage in his design, so I'm going to throw myself at him and blame the game" or "I don't want to be bothered to remember there's an opening in Dark Knight's evasive skills every few seconds so I'm going to get kited to death by attacking blindly instead of timing my shots." It is this knowledge of other classes that players keep in mind in order to fight them more effectively and makes the combat more fun and less braindead as each player is trying to play to their strengths and against their opponent's weaknesses within skills, cooldowns, etc. Is it a lot to remember, yes but even just having a general idea of how a class works goes a long way in both personal performance of the player and the entertainment found within pvp, therefore memorization is not a bad thing. Not only do I not agree with the reasoning behind the removal of most of the defensive properties, but I feel like there was a lot that was disregarded or forgotten, almost as if they asked themselves "can they still grind at pirates?" and left it at that. The removal of defensive properties across the board leaves many classes much more vulnerable at almost all times than others, and in some cases, if my memory of each class is still valid enough to make accurate assumptions, some classes will be nearly helpless against others because of range, attack/cast speed, threat pressure or just having one or two skills that are too good as a defensive nuke and other reasons if we were to place them in this new state. The formula to a combo that is repeated often will be strained and clutched to even more since these changes will probably force most players to develop hit-and-run tactics (or nuke and run with all the bonus damage player's are getting now) since there is no way to guarantee any sustained fight with how few options they have left. As to the changes to crowd control skills later on in the next patch, this problem with that formula then leaks into the advantages of having more gear than your opponent by emphasizing them by a ridiculous amount because if you are not able to both make an attempt at engaging while being safe, you can't take ANY risks when fighting someone who is more powerful than you. If you engage, then you'll probably get cc'd in the attempt then die shortly afterwards with how little damage you can sustain because you won't have any cc's with super armor to lessen the blow. If the more powerful opponent engages, then you are not able to retaliate effectively because you have no hard hitting skills that keep you safe enough to do much damage in case the opponent continues the assault. These are only the issues that appear in small scale pvp. There are other issues I see with these changes and the changes to come when medium to large scale comes around, but this wall of text is long enough as it is.
If I am to give any praise I believe is well deserved, it would be the changes to grab range and chaining. I believe were deserved both before and now. They were too secure of an option to press the attack or counter attack for some of the classes that did have them as an option, along with grabs being the best solution to turtling as they trumped super armors, blocks, frontal guards and, though not intentionally, invincibility and being an effective method of extending the time a player is down by a lot. This made grabs very difficult to play against and to protect against. In their current state, I believe the reward of successfully grabbing someone meets the risk and success rate.
I am glad to see that the development team has made an effort to keep myself and others interested in the game for 2 years or even get some players to return after quitting, and I praise the team for it as its not easy work; very time consuming and extremely volatile for the health of the game. However, I do hope that it is obvious that there is a very good chance the game will lose a large portion of its population if the changes to follow go down this same route. These changes are encouraging a boring to play and/or enraging to receive hit-and-run type playstyle for all classes using the same 3 or 4 skills at most for some due to how vulnerable players will be from these changes. I hope some carefully placed attention will be given to mend these changes over time. Good effort so far.
P.S. More damage does not mean good for the game when it comes to compensation buffs.
It's not just this patch, Berserker lost it's defining mechanic a few patches ago (being THE grappler class), and now there is no reason to choose the class over any other.
Most Berserkers have been waiting the last couple weeks to see if we get any new mechanics to replace our previous defining mechanic.
So far we've gotten nothing to replace our lost grapples, and nothing is announced or hinted at.
What is this Fairy Queen's Might [NEW]?
I know the majority doesn't care about housing... but I think it's time for some new craftable furniture ingame someday ¯\_(⊙_ʖ⊙)_/¯
What the ever loving god is this patch, reroll back to a month ago and maybe you'll be able to stop. Can't wait to see the game to die off after this free month of VP.