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Patch Notes - June 21st 2017 *UPDATED on 23/06/17

Discussion in 'Patch Notes' started by CM Yukimura, Jun 21, 2017.

  1. Qba

    Qba

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    what type of pve is this game? are you talking about this mindless grinding ? is that what you call pve ? WTF!!!! get this into your brainless minds this is PVP game with a lot of grinding .
     
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  2. Lord Scythe

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    I have been reading this thread and realizing how toxic the idiots in this game are. Shame on every one of you for whining about stuff instead of saying why you dislike it and what solutions you have to balance the game to avoid both sides of Griefing.

    I too absolutely hate the changes to the karma system

    Why:

    I hate this because it creates a reverse problem of those who cannot hold a grind spot but can clear faster to move in and take all the mobs even if you were there first. This gives a clear advantage to a few classes making it miserable for the rest to grind knowing that an undecable guild can move in take your spot and you are helpless to avoid this. This change as also created an "idiotic" backlash of guilds going full outlaw to farm new players so they quit! Shame on them!

    Solutions:

    Solution 1:

    First any person who was at a spot first should always have an advantage over any intruders. To this I propose that if a player is killing mobs in a certain area they receive a buff. This buff starts at 30 minutes and makes a player slightly stronger as well as lets players know he was in the area for a while. Every 30 minutes it gets a little stronger till it maxes out at a specific time. Should a player come into his/her grind spot the stronger this buff the less karma he loses killing them. Should they continue to come back he loses half the karma before till they realize it is just no longer worth it to go back. This buff will be lost after no longer killing mobs in 15-20 minutes. No more karma bombing. Buff could equalize lesser geared players.

    Solution 2

    When a player kills another player over a grind spot area there should be a timer on how long it takes that player to resurrect. Every subsequent kill on the opposing player would cost no karma and the timer would get longer for the loser! This would allow those people to grind in peace. Karma Griefing becomes less an issue because of the long run.

    Solution 3

    Make it so over powered high level players cannot go into lower level territories and flag on them. Allow the players of appropriate level to grind in peace without high level jerks coming in just to Grief. If a lower level goes to a higher level area they of course would be fair game.

    Solution 4

    Add more grind spots! Make them equal for experience if not for money making! This way the karma system could go back to the way it was and there would be a lot of places for everyone to grind! While there would still be issues everyone could find some where nice to grind.

    Solution 5

    Remove the protection from guilds if you are keeping this system so all guilds can be declared on. Significantly reduce karma loss when killing un-guilded players (30 000). I have seen many players drop their guild to avoid a dec then go back 24 hours later! Increase the time to rejoin a guild to 96 hours! This makes the decision to leave a guild a serious one.

    Outlaws and their attempts at making new players quit:

    I hate this because it hurts everyone if new players quit and then go on to post reviews how toxic this game is. The company does not win because it loses players/money and gets bad press. None of the non toxic guilds win because there is no new blood to fill the ranks. The new players do not win because the game is not enjoyable to keep dying to 59, 60 and 61 outlaws geared to the teeth when you are level 50.

    Solution

    You have the solution at your finger tips. You have a community willing to police itself. The problem is that the only incentive to killing an outlaw so far is you can break their crystals. When a player is making 1 billion+ silver a week or more this is not a punishment is it not even a road bump. It is a pre order or trip to the bank for most of these players.

    Mobs can already destroy their gear down 1 rank if they die. Add this ability to your non toxic community, Let non outlaw players break the gear of outlaws. Let us deal with this idiots and see if their attitude changes when their pen goes to tet or tet goes to tri! The higher the karma difference between the two the greater the chance of 1 piece of gear breaking 1 level. This would make the choice to be outlaw one not to be take lightly and only your skilled players would even bother to try! As always outlaws would be protected from this penalty if they stayed in the desert areas.

    Closing

    Any of this solutions could be combined to fix the problem. There needs to be a balance between might makes right and karma griefing. There is absolutely a way to do it but it needs to work for everyone to keep this a fun and enjoyable PvP game!

    Edit: After thought:

    I love how people are calling this change for care bears! This whole game is care bear. First pvp game I played you were stripped of anything and could be killed at level one. No one was safe and all your gear was gone!
     
    #1702 Lord Scythe, Jun 28, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2017
    Anodyne, Swordy, DubsCheckum and 2 others like this.
  3. Gibbs80

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    Very well said, With the solutions you presented I can not see why they can't implement a solution.
     
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  4. Arokhaerr

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    I want to have babies with you! <3
     
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  5. Kikamaruu

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    It can be a troll post, but for me, this game is finished, i stop, too much p2w and veterans players are ****ed, finish
     
  6. baddabum666

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    bye than kikamaruu
     
  7. VanillaCream

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    I think you don't understand why 99% of the pkers pk. People are usually killed because they were griefing, if you get pked and you think it was an ass randomly killing you for no reason you're wrong and don't understand the game at all. If you see a party near you and you are killing mobs that they would be killing then of course you are gonna get pked for griefing it's inefficient and a waste of time and you are being an ******* to everyone in that party
     
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  8. Ferr

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    Please... people kill for the "lulz" almost as much as for griefing (atleast before this new karma patch). I been killed a lot of times just running around in non grinding spots or just fishing (inb4 BE IN A FASE PLACE!!!!!11 but that still doesn't excuse the notion that I was killed for no real reason).
     
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  9. VanillaCream

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    Lol most people PK because people like you won't let them peacefully enjoy their grind train
     
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  10. Swordy

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    I enjoyed your post though disagree with some of your solutions.

    There needs to be a karmaless method for defending yourself. Outside of that, the system works pretty well - OP players SHOULD be able to walk into lower grinding spots and take the places over if they want. That's the nature of an open world PvP game.

    I think there's a philosophical issue that's not really debated enough in these parts and that's whether or not we want the game to be 'fair' and what the nature of that fairness entails. I'd argue that a person who spends 20 hours a day grinding to 62 and has full boss gear should be able to walk into the Ogre rotation in Mansha's and clear out every single person there. That's fairness to me - that people who are stronger should be allowed to exercise their strength over people that weaker in the game. Thus it creates the need for weaker people to group together under protection of guilds in order to fight against the single strength.

    I levelled to 56 in the weeks following EU release and some of my best memories in the game were having to fight for my spot against other players who wanted it too. Our guild even (a long time ago) took over the whole of Sausons for a night or two and fought off several other invasions of guilds. We all came together to help each other level to 55/56 and due to our control then the weaker guys could get up to speed quicker. In contrast to this, I personally levelled from 50ish-55 by dodging all the major rotations in Sausons and taking the outer wall solo which meant that the big guilds just left me alone as it wasn't worth it for them to bother chasing me and I wasn't killing their mobs. That to me is the essence of my enjoyment of the game - you have to find your own ways to develop and improve against whatever odds you are facing and you have to be able to adapt to new situations. And when you're in a position of power you get the rewards for that.

    We should attempt to fix the problem with this in mind. I agree with all of the boosts that new and returning players get (me being in receipt of some of them) because we want more people getting into the competitive spots. But the nature of the game is that there has to be a way to reward players who are more hardcore than I am and that comes down to them having better gear and the ability to shift me on.

    This word has an awful lot of stigma around but I do feel it's relevant here - the game gives agency and removes entitlement. Players are entitled to nothing from anybody and you have to work hard in order to achieve what it is that you want in the game. That isn't a system that everybody likes but it appears to be the system that they have chosen. The current system of karma is broken because it doesn't allow me to defend my spot from somebody obviously weaker than I am without then having to spend hours and hours and hours farming stupid low level mobs in order to get myself back into most towns. You can't punish people for spending more hours in the game, it's not a workable solution.
     
  11. Lord Scythe

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    If this is true explain the people killing at fishing spots? Explain the people flagging and carrying people to mobs when they are auto pathing. Explain the pking outside of grind spots.

    Many of the toxic players are bored and this is how they have fun. I am 100% sure that your 99% is a fabricated number! I personally think there is an equal amount of pking happening outside of grind spots as in.

    Ran across a guild leader with a guild and the only PvP he does is to afkers and auto pathers. As soon as a player fights back and looks to be an equal fight or better he runs or dies once and runs his mouth! I at least get grind spot PvP but not this crap! He also will get his 5 kills in then go get karma then come back get 5 more! He won't even go negative karma because it is too hard to Gank players and run to safety.
     
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  12. ZenWolfen

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    I think you make some very good points. However, the PvE content in this game is quite lacking. No dungeons, rudimentary AI scripting, world bosses/summoned bosses having absolutely 0 mechanics other than dont get hit... For a modern game these fall way, way behind acceptable standards for a PvE MMORPG that released ten years ago, let alone last year (for NA release). The PvP is the bread and butter of the game, the draw for the majority of the player base. The whole point of the enchanting system is to compete with other players, as the previously stated "PvE" content offers very little incentive for gear progression, unless of course the idea of mindlessly grind mobs for 30-50hours a week just so you can get stronger and grind the same mobs at a faster rate is appealing to you.
    You also mentioned something about how PvP never wins and to show you a study of a PvX game where the community tilts more towards the PvP than PvE content. Well, there's EVE online off the top of my head. It's a sandbox, an actual sandbox(BDO really lacks the qualifications for a sandbox due to all the restrictions placed on the market and player trader/interaction etc) and I'd say the majority of players there participate in the PvP in some way or another. The game has been around for a healthy 14 years I'd say? Then again it actually has well thought out systems where BDO.. well, that's why we're here complaining about it.
    You also
     
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  13. Lord Scythe

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    This is flawed logic. As a general rule players who can play 20 hours a day are not going to be spending a lot of money on the game. The people who are going to spend money on this game are generally people who work full time jobs. These people play for 1 reason, to enjoy the game and have fun and escape the real world.

    It is not fun for anyone at level 50 to be camped by a 62. Seeing as you don't like my solutions I am gonna guess you are not gonna like the solution they came up with in Korea then! Take a long look at the Sausan changes!

    https://www.invenglobal.com/article...-striker-buffs-and-new-weapons-for-siege-wars

    The whales are generally found within the people who have jobs and not tons of time to play. Outside of good streamers and retired people you don't find a ton of money from those under 18, unemployed, disabled which make up most of your hardcore players that are able to play 20 hours a week.

    While I hate the pay to play aspects of this game and think most if not all should be removed the game company is going to cater to whales not no lifers!
     
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  14. Swordy

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    I'm not interested in business reasons for Kakao's decisions - it's not my job and doesn't effect me in any way. Nor really should you. You're not CEO and should concentrate on problems you have a vested interest in which is the gameplay.

    It's not fun for me to die in PvP either. It's not fun for me to have less gear than other people. It's not fun for me to grind for 5 years. Ergo they should let me click a button to receive boss gear.

    You can see the issue here - you're looking at what's fun in the shortest and most narrow possible setting whereas I'm advocating taking a wider view of things. The level 50 should go elsewhere then, they're not going to be chased around the entire world, they just want the spot. This comes back to the idea of entitlement - the premise of an engaging game is to reward effort with achievement. In your version of things there's little distinction between the 20 hour level 50 player and the 10000 hour level 62 player which would be a massive issue.

    I have a full time job and family and play more than that. So do most of my guild.

    And again, you're not Kakao's accountant, this has no bearing on this conversation at all.
     
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  15. Anodyne

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    Fart once and folks giggle. Fart twice and they shift over a seat. Three times and they start squinting. Four and you just lost a friend. Five farts later you dont have a job anymore. A few more and the whole world is moving away from you.... or... maybe your just gassed and it looks like its moving.... @~@
     
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  16. Anodyne

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    Dude..... just fyi, if that was not intended as satire, it sure looks like it was.
    Pick up Dynasty warriors style game and careful ignore the majority of its content. Its also not just grinding, as I previously stated.

    Do people even understand how coop games work? You know, games where friends play a game without killing one another? Has anyone played Lef4Dead style games? No great story there. No progression. Yet the coop modes are full for years. Other similar games sell just as well without even having PvP modes to swap too.
    Food4thought.
     
  17. Anodyne

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    Yes.... to a degree I agree. This game could use some more structured PvE but it does have the basics. It also does, supposedly, have 4 dungeons in it.
    The 2 gateways in the desert of Valencia, the helms dungeon and... supposedly a 4rth. I... dont know it or... if I have gone through it, didnt notice anything worth noticing.

    But to be precise Im not saying its a 'PvE' MMO. Im saying its a Sandbox MMO. If you go into this with the PvE or PvP mindset this game is broken in so many ways. But if you think sandbox and look at the game it is exactly what one would expect to find. A massive open world with as little scripted content as possible.
    I will, as most have, go a step further and fully state this is complete atypical in terms of MMO gaming. A lot of people struggle with this game because they come in with the 'like other MMOs' mindset. Its not like others.

    Still... I do agree they could do some more. For both PvE and PvP.... even... in the same ways I think.
    Doing somewhat more dynamic guild missions shouldnt be to hard. I already alluded to the idea of having wardec based guild VIP hunts set up through guild missions. Two+ guilds sign up and there GM or someone gets picked as the VIP. Thus begins a game of manhunt/hide and seek.

    Some random enemies that spawn like hunt targets could be neat too. Especially if they wanted to introduce a single loot drop HVT. That way folks can fight over and compete for open world targets unstructured.

    There are so many options thanks to the open concept design structure.

    Also, as both that BDO poll and many others throughout online gaming history have shown, the majority does not primarily engage in PvP. Even the number of people on this thread 'taking sides' shows an imbalance to the claim. PvP is a vocal plug line but a unrealistic reality.

    EVE:
    If you had ever played EVE you would know its structured from top to bottom for nothing but PvP. All the content, the equatable life skills and grinding all directly lead you into player conflict. It is not and was never a PvX game. Its like the newer psudo survival games. People punch trees until they can make guns then kill each other. That is and was always the intention. The explicate endgame.
    The only thing remotely similar in BDO is that PvP is at end game. It is not all of endgame. As this is a true sandbox that does not have a definitive endgame.
    No max lvl dungeons, not max lvl arenas. Endgame is just the highest point the playerbase has reached.

    Btw, sandbox is open concept gameplay. If you wanna play with a strict definition than no single game other than perhaps gerry's mod is a true sandbox game.

    Look what Im trying to highlight is that your missing some dots again. Makinng assumptions without connecting things.
    Like where you talk about the 'point' of gearing up. Well... first of all... sandbox. Its a choice. You dont have to gear up. Second, specific content works for itself. So gearing up works well for PvP. As you clearly know.
    "unless of course the idea of mindlessly grind mobs for 30-50hours a week just so you can get stronger and grind the same mobs at a faster rate is appealing to you."
    1: Welcome to BDO. Its like buying Dynasty warriors and being confused about where your racing game is. It is a Korean grind MMO. That was never in question.
    2: You dont have to do anything. Hence, sandbox. You can also earn 100s of millions afking in this game while watching GoT, anime, porn, all of the above, etc. Or working like I do.
    3: ...and so what if it is? I know this is kicking a dead horse but so what? If thats what folks enjoy.... plus more on topic, kind of the point of choking out abusive PKing no? So you dont have to keep moving to other channels all the time. Party incentives so folks can actually work together to achieve something.


    Look... the simple version is that games like EVE and other MMOs are not BDO. BDO is BDO is BDO and BDO should focus on what it does well. Which, with balance issues, flagging starting at lvl 50 but going up to 62PEN toons, messy and repetitive PvP guild PvP and one single arena PvP mode... isnt really PvP.
    To be clear though... not saying its anything else exclusively either. Its the complete package that makes BDO what it is.
    This is about refining the edges on the messy bits. Patches, this conversation, thread, etc.
    Food4thought.
     
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  18. Arokhaerr

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    Weird.. Most of the times I got killed were at spots like gahaz when I grinded for like 1,5 hours, then out of nowhere some jackass with desert costume appears and kills me, i ran back and got told spot taken. My answer was: when you PK me to get me out of my spot I make sure you get no profit out of it either... (DKs are hard to kill when outgrinding you :P) After getting killed like 6 times more that person was gone because I was still faster than him killing mobs... So yeah... PKs only kill griefers...good myth. PKers WERE the griefers before this patch. (At least for me)
     
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  19. Anodyne

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    Yep.
    Yesterday actually I decided to roll a wiz and lvl with some folks at the new Sausans. Try hard musa shows up and starts PKing people. Not farming mobs. People. Not taking rotations. Just ghillied up and murdering everyone he can find. An hour or so later 2 others show up and the 3 dont seem to fight so I assume guildies. Anyway, Musa proceeds to PK the way for there grind. They are KSing.
    Heres the kicker.... the witch 1 shot a team of 6 people, several well over 200dp. The Maehwa was pretty much on par with the Musa in terms of damage output and evasion. Which is to say they should all be in the desert dungeon. At the very least the new Shultz area.

    These people shouldnt be in Mediah let alone allowed to kill groups of people pre-56awk.
    If folks dont think PK abuse is a thing they can respectfully go f*** themselves.
     
  20. HoCake

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    Doing this to the Karma is going to kill this game. The majority of people here want open world pvp. I for one wont be playing anymore until this is fixed. If you take to long or never fix this, congrats you just killed your game.
     

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