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PENs, Failstacks, and Gameplay

Discussion in 'General Gameplay' started by Belle Atwell, Jun 17, 2020.

  1. Belle Atwell

    Dec 19, 2015
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    Sub-header: "Why I will personally never work on PENs".

    A lot friends lately have asked me to begin work on getting my gear out of TET.
    - in response to this I asked:
    "Is there any content beyond TET?"

    There confused by my question and replied:
    "Yes! Of course! You do it all the time!"

    And I replied:
    "You mean Star's End and Gyfin?"

    They variously went:
    "Yes," somewhat frustrated that I would get involved more lately.

    I said:
    "When I raise my AP I have to lower my DP from 257 AP forwards."
    "Why do you think this inspires me to play more?"

    They were upset by this response:
    "That's not how it works! You need upgrade your armor!"

    I gave them this disgusted look:
    "You are asking me to get PEN armor?"

    "That's how the game works!"

    I gave them an even heavier look:
    "The game works by making me participate with non-existent content
    so I can get gear to blow up in an attempt to raise my
    Stack Points (Failstacks) enough for a PEN attempt?"


    "That is the most asinine request you ever all ever made of me. Don't ever ask me something like this again."

    And that was the end of that.

    You see, BDO is a game about "working for it". If you don't participate with the content IT PROVIDES for you to get ahead you're going to stay right where you are at FOREVER.
    • This is one of the primary reasons why I bought the game pre-launch and played beta, but had PRI gear from the time it came out until last year. I don't like RNG and I don't like Korean games because of RNG. BDO has been the one and only exception to this I've ever encountered.
    Let's take, for example, Dream Horses.
    - the best way to win is to not play
    • The average Dream Horse takes about 30 attempts to get, but they are worth 10 billion silver. For every 6 to 9 attempts (depending on the market prices and your own avoidance of the market) you'll have spent 30 billion getting a single Dream Horse.
      • Summary: You can't Play to Win a Dream Horse in BDO. It is 100% RNG it is usually will cost you THREE TIMES as much TIME. For perspective, it takes me about 1 week to make 1 billion silver. That means it is 10 weeks to buy a dream and 30 weeks PLAY the GAMEPLAY involved in getting a Dream.
      • This is stupid.
      • I liked working on Dreams in my spare time until a girl friend pointed out to me, "This is really cheating us on our time." Then I was sad and felt a bit betrayed. I hadn't noticed because I was having fun doing all the GAMEPLAY around getting the materials to try.
    • Except... I felt completely screwed over when I realized I could have bought a Dream horse in that time and been on my way to getting the never-drops Vell's Heart. Instead, I have no Heart and no Horse. I did manage to get lucky with a certain other heart, but I'd say that just balanced the check-book as far as TIME and EFFORT invested were concerned. And it was acquired by actually PLAYING the game.
    RNG isn't GAME nor PLAY.

    • I think there is some argument to be made for the merits of it on the way up to TET gear and prior to Black Star (anything).
    • This merit comes from the TIME to Acquisition it takes for someone to go from 0 Armor to TET Boss armor. It's roughly balanced with money and content existent in the world.
      • In other words: When I PLAY the available CONTENT up to that point I will eventually get some item that adds some points to my Existing STACK POINTS (How I get my armor) OR I will get enough money together (eventually) from that same content to buy it.
    In this way, everything up to this part of the game that I have discussed has REAL and TRUE stuff to do that I would say has GAME and PLAY behind it.
    • PEN is an entirely other matter.
    Most people don't notice this, but it isn't until late TET and early PEN gear that you start encountering ONLY HIGH fantasy creatures.
    • Manes, Naga, and other demi-human stuff like that is pretty mundane. It's something you'd expect to see if the Billionaire's Club that's taking over the world right now is finally allowed to have complete freedom to make whatever they want. CRISPR-Cas9 technologies were suggested as early as Frank Herbert's DUNE series with Ixians and what they did to women. Trollocs and other Shadow Spawn in Wheel of Time by Robert Jordan. Dark Spawn in Dragon Age to Bone Tomahawk for the more horror-genre-esque. There are many examples of this sort of kind of why humans or semi-celestial entities trying to create life is Divinely Forbidden even from the most primitive of cultures.
    However, when you get to Kamasylve and beyond you're no longer dealing with strictly 'mundane' (that is to say - normal) disruptions in the topology of creation. Things like the Incarnation of Corruption (perfect name all things considered) is exactly what its name says. It is a thorough rupture into our world from some other one. This brief contact with another world brought with it the Ashen Plague. It created the plague that brought the Calpheoni and Valencians to war. It drove the Fadus that had contact with it insane and it corrupted the Dark Elves in ways we do not yet understand. Far in the past it forced the people of Gyfin to attempt to escape it by placing their consciousnesses into metal suits of armor and showing us a clue of where the other ancient peoples 'disappeared' to...

    In short, when you start entering PEN gear there ISN'T any relationship with REALITY.
    • PEN gear is the moment in Anime when the heroes begin to go toe-to-toe with mecha WITH THEIR BARE HANDS.
    • It SHOULD be hard to get.
    I just fundamentally disagree with our options.

    We ought to be able to do a daily Life Skill activity soully made for the purpose of giving us an item (eventually) that will add to our already existing failstack. It should be long and involving to do, but ADVENTUROUS rather than perhaps Combat oriented on the whole. We'd have to take a trek all over the world to do it once that day and the travel locations would vary day-to-day. Eventually we'd get a PART of the whole that we'd then have to use our L menu Life Skills to make. That made thing would then be able to either add to our failstack or fail and disappear.

    Otherwise, pissing around grinding the same 10 billion billion creatures every day? No thanks. I'm not a robot and it makes me hate the game.

    Getting PEN gear is a hideous experience to me because while it reflects accurately the reality that PEN gear is moving our character's potential outside the range of all mundane reality it also has a flaw...

    It robs of ENJOYING the game because there is nothing TO game. You just grind out the money to add to your Stack Points and back you go to the same grind as yesterday. Meanwhile, you'd be having a heck of a lot more FUN and PLAY if we had any choices BESIDES, "Kill 100,000 rats per day". It makes the game a hateful loathsome fowled wash you have to immerse yourself in day in and day out. It vitiates all the joy of the game up to that point and for no reason.

    This is why, as with years ago, I'm not participating with this.

    If a dev ever reads this:
    You have done and can do better.
    Jinoro, ElfieJo and Ezikeo like this.
  2. zeezero

    Feb 14, 2016
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    I think you could have made a couple pens in the time it took you to write this post
    MoonDance17 and zhagsten like this.
  3. Lanceknight

    Mar 31, 2016
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    This,or the failstacks for it!
    MoonDance17 likes this.
  4. ghoulz666

    Aug 27, 2017
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    5-10% chance.

    Which means it's a 100% chance if you work REAL hard. Because life is black & white.
  5. asdsadfas

    Jan 12, 2018
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    oh damn and now everyone has pen, and everyone quit because there is no content

    thanks op!
    MinimalLeopardi likes this.
  6. RandomHajile

    Jan 21, 2020
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    This is a fascinating post, esp the relationship with reality part. I dunno if I agree, but it makes you HMM.

    I also definitely agree w/ TET.

    You can always buy a PEN once in awhile as you gain money by playing. :)

    Edit: also, let me once again post my... they gave you 1100 crons (or w/e) and a +100 fail stack. Everyone instantly used it to hit at pen, failed. Now what? You're not getting that stack back. You just blew 1b worth of crons. You gonna work over time and use it to eventually make a TET accessory? Probably not... what are you gonna do? Keep melting or buy. GG.

    Jinoro likes this.
  7. DarkGG

    DarkGG Darkiee DarkKnight 62 NA

    Oct 15, 2017
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    Just put it this way I'm 0/33 on my nouver all cron attempts it worked out to being 20571 crons used or almost 1900$ irl if i melted outfits, I could have bought 2.5 pen nouvers by now
    Jinoro likes this.
  8. Ashaara

    Oct 12, 2016
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    And yet another one of those posts that were created purely out of frustration. Most likely you will never see anything of the poster again, the main thing is that the whole thing will be a 20 page discussion where everybody agrees how stupid the game is and still makes fun xD.

    I mean what do you expect with such a meaningless post. No matter how constructive and neatly written it may be. Usually you just say "no" and go your own way when someone wants to force something on you and scold your friends and beat them. Normally you don't go to the next pub and get mad at complete strangers. You can only do that when you're drunk or have no friends or both.

    ... So OP you finally realized that you can do whatever you want, even in a korean money-printer game. Cool, bro. Now you're one of many.
  9. Joungf

    Dec 14, 2015
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    Adding new stones, weapons, shards, that make other already owned obsolete is one of PA main strategy. Instead of turning this game into a real ow-mmorpg, PA uses the weakness of humans by adding mechanics that exploits this weakness.

    Nice example: Some of the replies.

    Comparing price and stats of my Ultimate stuff i got 3 years ago with all that new stuff (also boss gear) on same and higher enhancement level ... and the effort / luck you will need .... Devs of PA never ever played a traditional mmorpg, I am telling you!

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