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People crying about RNG don't understand Organization of Programming Languages

Discussion in 'General Gameplay' started by Voxless, Oct 19, 2018.

  1. JM

    JM Tamer 62 NA

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    I've had a Master's degree for a number of years now... doesn't give license to spout off nonsense
     
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  2. Mimimimi

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    i have no idea what "Aggies" are, but you are doing nothing but embarassing yourself right now.
     
  3. MalGuldur

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    Tired of those forever alone gingers that pretend to know stuff because their teacher in high school told them whats a 01000101001.

    You know nothing about the cash grabing techniques leave it to nexon and perl abyss.
     
  4. Spartakatz

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    Master my ass. He's an obvious liar and has no clue at all.

    1. static functions with no class - you'd even fail first semester test
    2. the Random class in Java is not proprietary, not "owned by Oracle" it's GNU license and publicly available, see http://developer.classpath.org/doc/java/util/Random-source.html
    3. BDO is not programmed in Java. there are plenty of rng implementations, not only your Stack Overflow google copy&paste result. You could even define a fixed sequence of say 1000 random numbers and just spit them out sequentially, you wouldn't even notice the difference if many players are involved concurrently.
     
  5. Atakarias

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  6. United_Strafes

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    Uh oh Cashcow employee account here to spit some programming mumbo jumbo to try to justify their unregulated casino.
     
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  7. Arzurag

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    What does it matter, how the code is structured, if the odds are off and way too vague ?

    RNG is BDO 's tool to manipulate players and make revenue,nothing else matters.
     
  8. AlnilamE

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    You are adorable.

    Please report back when you are getting boss gear to TET or PEN.
     
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  9. Souda

    Souda Warrior 61 EU

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    He won't get that far
     
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  10. Sandpit_

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    The problem isn't whether any computer algorithm is mathematically "true" random. Any algorithm that satisfies two basic requirements will do. That each possible outcome (number) is both likely and unpredictable.

    The problem is humans (and gamers in particular it seems) are very VERY bad at understanding what random means. If you to toss a coin repeatedly and get 10 heads, the universe doesn't owe you a tail, it's just as likely you will get an 11th head. Random isn't smooth. Ask anyone to draw 100 randomly placed dots on a page and they will spread them out evenly, any analysis will show the pattern to be very non-random. people don't like and won't accept runs of bad luck, they assume something must be wrong if they fail DUO 10 times.

    people are also very selective with anecdotes on good/bad luck, and of course, you only post about extremes on forums. I have had plenty of good and back luck in BDO but I have seen nothing to convince me that there is anything bad about the RNG coding in the game. The only thing bad is the over-reliance on it, and the shitty odds for many things.
     
  11. Rayin

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    The main issue here is that during hidden stats times PA has proven to tweak for example item stats to shift the "BiS" status or change the stats when spreadsheets of those items were leaked, which has pissed off many players for instance because we discovered that Vangertz and similar items were BiS while Gold items weren't.

    Then Bloo opened the Pandora's Box and found out a spreadsheet containing more informations except the accuracy value of those because it was (it still is?) server side and we have seen how some items changed stats wise compared to spreasheets leaked way before that were containing "some" of those items mentioned in Bloo spreadsheet, hence the collective outrage.

    Hence their move to give us what we asked them for 2 years prior the shìtstorm (Visible stats) and their counter-move to gain something out of it (Renown Score & AP focused builds) that couldn't contain anymore any build diversity for that reason.
    Once you rustle a doo-doo with a stick, you can start to feel its smell. If you just look at it, it may just appear dried or like a clump of dirt, but who knows it it's doo-doo or dirt for real.

    I think most of people remember that, but i'm gonna search for the spreadsheets if i can. That's why people are also suspicious about tweaks when it comes to enhancement and why they are eager to feel that something changed, because PA did it in past.
    Rednose box is another example of rigged RNG, a box that from the description could contain any boss item and instead 90% of BDO population received a shiny Red-Nose while rest got a Giath & Bheg and an even smaller sample of users got Muskan & Dim.
     
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  12. Eynix

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    Also can we keep technicalities out of this ? It's saturday : no work on the week-ends, we've been through that already guys.
     
    #32 Eynix, Oct 20, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2018
  13. Doom Smack

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    I like potatoes
     
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  14. Doom Smack

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    From my experience with this game and lineage, I call it 'korean random'. And it functions differently to random in other games, way more in streaks. And of course they would have their own code for it and not use standard stuff. If only we knew what they used as a seed. But Ive said too much already *puts tinfoil back on, looks around to check whos watching and creeps off into the shadows*
     
  15. zhagsten

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    [​IMG]
     
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  16. Rysingmoon

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    The Java framework and also the system libraries are usually quite good and very well tested. Also, typically, the framework libraries (i.e. Java) are based on the system libraries, and those are based on kernel facilities. There's is little reason to use third party libraries for your own RNG, unless you require a distribution that is something else than uniform. I would strongly discourage you to implement your own RNG code.

    System libraries usually also provide cryptographically strong pseudo random number generators - which are of lesser interest in this use case.

    There's nothing wrong with the code above, except maybe it creates and releases random number generator instance of type `Random` at each call. Reading the docs for class Random (which you did not) reveals, that each instance created with the default ctor will very likely use a different seed. That way, it's "safe" to use it this way.

    However, in the above code, since each call will create an instance every time, this "may" be a performance and possibly a GC issue. Also, the naming of function names and variable names would also not pass a review, this is irrelevant for sake of a demo, though.
     
  17. PoL

    PoL Wizard

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    Here are the facts as we perceive them (and by perceive I mean we cannot verify said facts)
    1. The game employs a RNG factor in nearly ALL instances. Even when the outcome seems to be random, this is not the case (as in picking a "prize" from a rotating wheel). All devs will confirm that the result is preselected from the time you click on the item.
    2. The RNG system must employ a weighting system with variances that are programmed in, based on several preselected concepts (I still believe that the horoscope has something to do with this)
    3. As all RNG in game is programmed, luck is NOT present.
    What annoys me about the approach that PA has taken is the extreme variance in programming the win factor. I do understand that the game must be played over a number of years and the harder it takes to achieve a cap helps retain player base, but too harsh a variance causes disappointment and most will walk away (in the West anyway)
     
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  18. Findubar

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    warning clickbait.exe has stopped working!
     
  19. Rysingmoon

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    Yup. You do not understand what RNG means :)

    When you get a "Fail, Fail, Fail, Fail, ...., Fail" it's seems you always get a fail, but still it's "random", with a probability that could be 0.5.
     
  20. GamePois0n

    GamePois0n PootyPoot Ranger 61 NA

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    there is no rng, everything can be calculated if your brain is capable.

    its more of a statistic take than anything else
     

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