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Petition to nerf Mystic

Discussion in 'PvP' started by McShekelberg, Jan 3, 2018.

  1. Kayray

    Kayray Tenebrarum Musa 62 NA

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    I'll try my hand at this while also giving you my explanations are reasons for why i think these changes should exist:
    1) I'll start with the most problematic ability with 2 sub components: Spiral Torpedo
    a) In it's current state the healing+ defense is a bit much combined with infinite fortitude. Bringing the healing down from 500 to 300 or 350 would go a long way, in making it so not every exchange is a favorable one for the mystic.
    b) Spiral Torpedo going through FG. Before you guys start off by saying there are other spells that do the same, let me try and explain why this particular skill is problematic. Let's compare spiral torpedo to another skill which was mentioned when i brought up the going through FG issue, Petal Drill. While it may seem petal drill goes through FG, its a positional skill which requires you to aim slightly to the right or the left of the block and aim to hit behind the block. If spiral torpedo did this, I would have no issues with it. But the problem that I currently have with ST, is that it makes it so you can never ever FG trade against a mystic. It's on a 5 sec cd and grab is on a 7 sec cd. This basically means, even after I have baited out a grab, I cannon utilize one of the key components of my kit the FG. Anytime I wish to use an FG as the mystic is SA spamming in front of me all it takes for me to lose the fight is for her to know half an eggs worth of knowledge about my class to know where my FGs are and BAM they are useless now. MY solution : Fix it so the skill hits from the direction of origin. This way a side step into torpedo will still CC someone on their FG. by hitting them from the side. But this time the person has ample time to respond.(This applies to spiral cannon on striker as well)

    2)The issue with 30% as ms and cs slows. This is not a simply mystic matter, but I'll bring it up here anyways. 30% Cripples hidden behind an SA should have 1 of 2 things done to em. Lower the power of the cripple to 15% or lower or lower the duration of the slow to 5 secs. In the current state of the game, going into any small engage and ALWAYS getting hit with atk speed cast speed and move speed slows + the increasing number of grab classes just makes it near impossible for any person to really do anything in large scale. Lowering duration to 5 secs would at least enable some degree of counter play.

    3) Again something regarding not just mystic but also, a few other classes, namely ranger and striker. KD grabs. They have far too many bugs atm and offer far too large a damage window for classes to 1 shot of a grab. I'm sure i'm not the only one who's gotten grabbed and straight up 1 shot or 1 combo'd by a striker or mystic who isn't ap focused. I personally believe grabs should me meant to extend combos / Disrupt fast classes and should enable slow chip damage, rather than grab oh you're dead.

    These are my issues / solutions and opinions.
     
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  2. Phalan

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    Thank you kindly for that, exactly what I wanted to read.. something with logic... well written without destroying the concept of a class.
     
  3. Minto

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    Its me or Mystic make others class bugged ?

    Hit by an cc my chara freezing in basic stance + teleport bug on somes distance till map corner, forget to recording and not enjoying to watch this kind of garbage.
     
    #343 Minto, Jan 18, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2018
  4. Velentos

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    Zerker gets owned in the beginning, then adapts, learns and then promptly goes to completely destroy the mystic.
    Mystic then learns a little a fights end roughly even. One could almost say it looked balanced.

    Making me think this may be a l2p issue.

    Why is every new class so op?
    Look at DK, considered mega OP when out, "nerfs" where miniscule at best, some even consider them a buff to the class, yet now DK is a MEME class.

    Do we really need to reanimate Einstein from the dead to figure out what is going on here?
    Give it time, do some duels, learn and adapt.
     
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  5. Bregushka

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    mystik in 2-3 times more OP then was DK before nerf. DK nerf was only IFrame nerf lol and now DK is trash.... Mystic have permanent stamina crazy mobility crazy CC SA crazy DMG TOP1 DP they will no nerf whole class
     
  6. Kayray

    Kayray Tenebrarum Musa 62 NA

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    While i see where you are going with this, you are comparing what should potentially be the best or second best 1 v 1 class in the game, which also counters mystics sa, mostly has sa spam rotation so the fg breaking skill doesnt work, and have a large hp pool and healing to compare with mystic. And it went even. What about other classes that arent nearly as tanky, have a grab or rely on fgs?
     
  7. raikourin

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    Keep in mind that the Mystic in that video is 270AP / 298DP. Not a fair comparison of balance standards when the vast majority of the player base is below that gear score. Put that same gear on other classes first then compare the results afterwards.
     
  8. Beeso

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    False on all accounts.

    [​IMG]

    - Mystic has finite stamina (dashes expend stamina).

    - Mystic has good CC.

    - Athletic mobility (duh, a fighter, she works out, not a hit-and-run spellcaster nerd) not "crazy mobility".

    - Decent damage, not the highest Burst.

    -
    YenShiKwan-48-b.jpg
     
  9. Kushina

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    buff sorc petition when?
     
  10. raikourin

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    DK isn't trash because of a "iframe nerf" (The only iframe removed was the least reliable one inside of the forward dash which was only 1/3rd an iframe and often failed at functioning like a proper iframe ), it simply wasn't as OP as people wanted to believe. The stamina change merely highlighted a problem that DK already had but people ignored which is that DK is heavily reliant on having overwhelming AP to keep pressure off of her while kiting. If she doesn't deal enough damage to punish people for chasing her then she's only delaying the inevitable when she's finally caught and deleted. Throw in magic dp classes and a year for people to fight DK enough to learn the patterns and you have the current state of DK that was always there but only now people are starting to realize.
     
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  11. Kaitreen

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    The problems with DK:

    1. No Self Heal
    2. Lacks Super Armor in the majority of awakening/nonawakened skills: Their super armor doesn't "Linger" like other classes do (see below).
    3. Lacks CC
    4. Lowest Magic Damage compared to Wizard etc.
    Now consider Mystic.

    1. 100% uptime in Super Armor (rotate Space Bar, Flow: Mass Destruction Shift+Left/Right direction, Shift Right Click, and w+right click) Even with sub-par ping, your super armor lingers considerably longer.
    2. 5 second 500HP self heal with no requirements for hitting anything (spammable)
    3. Superior mobility to DK and all other classes (even wizard). You can disengage in i-frame a total of 8 times, using shift spacebar to recover martial spirits, and torpedo for additional i-frames. This needs fixed.
    4. Most awakened skills give self buffs and debuffs in DP and AP (see spiral torpedo) while also giving infinite Super armor.
    5. Did I say Infinite Super Armor while applying equivalent burst damage to magic classes?
    If you're a DK or any other class lacking CC, don't bother fighting mystics. I'll give you an example:

    I dueled a 60 DK on my 60 mystic with the exact same Gear Score (440 GS) Obviously, it was a no-brainer and mystic won even when I let the DK CC me 2x. But Mystics Magic DP is already a known fact

    Here's the funny part.

    I decided to only use non-awakened skills, while the DK is free to use anything, including potions and food. I completely rolled the DK by spamming i-frames and my un-leveled Shift RMB and Shift LMB + Space + Mass destruction.

    Unfortunately, he was in my guild, and after the fight, I haven't seen him logged in since....

    How can anyone defend that Mystic is "balanced"? it's a class that needs fixed and obviously was developed by someone with a hardon for kung-fu.
     
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  12. Phalan

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    DK is a 1vs1 Meme ...


    Mystic is a hardcounter to any mage classes... there are already enough videos which shows, that mystics are beatable if you adept and practice.

    She is designed to shift the meta.. good thing.
     
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  13. Kayray

    Kayray Tenebrarum Musa 62 NA

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    Making someone feel bad about their class or creating a common enemy is not a good shift in the meta at all. Diversion tactics
     
  14. raikourin

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    Both Striker and Mystic were built in Pre-Awakening to be solid 1v1 classes. Dark Knight was never built with 1v1 in mind. You can't blame the game design for lack of skill. He should of already known of the inherent weakness that DK had in 1v1 (granted its hard to know them because everyone just regurgitates "DK is OP/Better than every other class at everything/blah blah blah"). A sub-par 1v1 class goes up against classes built for 1v1 in pre-awakening and the result is no surprise. They could of overcame that handicap with knowledge and skill but instead they choose to run away from game. Can't blame the system for failure to adapt.

    If Warrior can hard counter DK with super armor upkeep what the hell makes you think you can just easily approach a Mystic with no repercussions?
     
    #354 raikourin, Jan 23, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2018
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  15. Kayray

    Kayray Tenebrarum Musa 62 NA

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    That
    That isnt what my comment was about at all. A class can be built to be strong in 1v1s. There isnt a problem with that (Tamer for ex), my comment was focusing entirely on the 30% extra magic dp they get. It makes the class hard counter a specific breed of classes and its unhealthy for the game. Warriors into musas for ex. Its a bad matchup and usually requires the musa to outgear the warrior pretty heavily to win. The dk witch into mystic is similar except on top of a lot of heavy sa, powerful grab and slows, they also have extra magic dp. This i think is unhealthy. If a and b have the gear to do similar amounts of damage to a non striker mystic class, but suddenly one does drasticslly lesser damage when striker mystic comes in, it just throws balance out of whack. If magic classes are op nerf them. Dont pull half asses solutions like extra dp on 1 class.
     
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  16. clangpicky

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    no ty. we've had strikers for like 6 months now and had plenty of time to learn to deal with their magic dp. mystic is no different when it comes to magic dp. game didn't die, witch/wiz still dominate the endgame. after a while, people actually rerolled from striker back to older classes like warrior and the same will happen with mystic.
     
  17. Nexius

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    There a big difference when warriors main counter to a dk is a block. Blocks first off ar en't exclusive, nor are super armor, which ironically are more tank like on a mystic than a warrior. A warrior doesn't have class specific passive damage reduction on top of existing DR buffs to give it a universal and inherent advantage either. It would make sense if mystic and striker were unique in this way, but did 25% less damage than everyone else as a trade off.


    The class is allowed to dominate against magic classes at the expense of nothing. There is something to be said about that type of balance and class design. It hadn't existed in the game until striker was released and is honestly an unnecessary addition. Mystics and strikers don't need inherent magic damage reduction to do well against magic classes. However conversely, certain magic classes benefit far too much from the range and damage provided by those abilities.
     
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  18. Velentos

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    Mystic already have low damage, roughly 25% lower dmg than assassin classes like you suggest. Maybe even more.

    Mystic has another weakness, no ranged attacks whatsoever. Meaning a Mystic has to get into enemy lines to do anything. They have no party buffs or heals, they cannot hold a front line like a valk since they have no block, they have decent mobility, but nothing like Maewha or Musa and no invis so flanking and intercepting stragglers is hard.

    There is only 1 option for Mystics, go in, go in first and go in hard. Or if we speak in MOBA terms, Mystics are the initiators.

    Large scale pvp is what PA is trying to balance this game around, this much is obvious. If Mystic didn't have this added dp and superarmor + self heals they would not have a role in large scale pvp at all.
    It is the same for other classes, they are balanced around large scale pvp aswell. Assassins take care of stragglers, witch/wiz nuke groups, valks/warr hold the frontline and so on. Mystics role seems to be to get into the main group and deal with the nukers while cc'ing to pave the way for their teammates, to do this they need solid defences and cc, and like you suggest Mystics have lower dmg to compensate.

    The alternative would be to nerf Witch/Wiz.

    WoW also gave up on small scale pvp balancing, 2v2 was neglected and 3v3 and 5v5 was the focus. This is common practice, and best practice for an mmo.

    I can understand frustration players have tho since rerolling is so expensive. And also all this makes Mystic a very competent 1v1'er. And even tho 1v1 is not the balance focus of PA it is still a relevant part of the game since you need to defend your grind spot.

    It will be exiting to get more data from sieges and node wars over time as meta settles and we can see for real how Mystic really performs when people learns how to play with and against them.
     
    #358 Velentos, Jan 24, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2018
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  19. Ginrei

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    I don't understand your point.

    Define, "do well against magic classes". You admit, magic classes benefit in the form of range and damage. I think it's safe to say those benefits have helped some classes dominate parts of the game. PA made a choice when designing and introducing a new class and gave them some inherent magic defense. Instead of nerfing classes until everyone is the same, it seems like PA wants to take a different approach. I don't have a problem with this.
     
  20. Soulscar

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    Almost word for word of what I was going to say. Mystic can CC small areas but doesn't have the damage to kill in a one combo, at least 25% less damage than other melee classes. They are designed to get to the nukers fast enough to CC them, not necessarily kill them but give single target DPS time to get there and finish them.

    Currently we have large scale PvP that consists of 60%+ witch/wizard and a front and back line consisting of zerks/valks/warriors and maybe the odd sorc/blader/Musa. To break this honestly awful meta they introduced striker/mystic. They fit the role and will eventually break the complete dominance of witch/wizard in large scale PvP.

    What we are hearing is tears from salt mountain from gear score warriors who haven't had to do anything more than one combo after a CC.

    I will say that DK needs more sustainability and front blocks to give a bit less glass in the cannon. Sorc needs some love. Zerker is fine. I haven't played the blader or ranger in a while so cant really see where they sit in the meta. But overall these calls for nerfs are due to the fact people are too settled in their class and would prefer to continue.
     
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