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Please re-visit or rollback Tamer PvP changes

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Karma555, Jul 3, 2020.

  1. Karma555

    Karma555 Tamer 63 NA

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    The new damage values in PvP do not feel good on Tamer. She now needs to weave in a lot more skills into her combos in order to kill someone, but everyone else can now easily 2-shot her. This coupled with the incoming 21% BSR nerf is going to make her irrelevant in pretty much all PvP scenarios.
     
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  2. Lurea

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    Welcome to BDO, where balance has been a problem since day 1. They still have a long way to go to get a good balance between all classes. And it wont help if they keep adding new ones :s Best you can do is learn to work around the problems. That's what we all do. There is no other option for the past years. You get used to it (even tho you shouldn't)
     
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  3. Andaro

    Ambassador

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    Shouldn't Tamers abilities be more focused around her Heilang supporting her? That is, bring Heilang more into the big picture...?
     
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  4. JohnnyNails

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    I agree 110% considering Heilang is the cornerstone that makes the Tamer class what it is, without Heilang a Tamer wouldn't be much in the uniqueness department. Expanding upon Heilangs usefulness and power I think is a good focus point
     
  5. Monkey D.

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    the problem with that idea is that it needs months of development. So tamer will be garbage while that.


    Just remember how much time took for them just solve the problem with the pet and the swallow water xDDD
     
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  6. Karma555

    Karma555 Tamer 63 NA

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    You are correct. We have asked for that since day 1. But as Monkey D. said, it took the devs 4 years just to patch out Heilang despawning in 2 inches of water.

    We are merely trying our best to work with the viable tools that the devs have given us. Which isn't much to begin with.
     
  7. Hearts

    Hearts Valkyrie 62 EU

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    Can confirm that.
     
  8. LeMiau

    LeMiau Tamer 63 NA

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    It took four years for them to get heilang to be puddle proof, a lot of us aren't exactly optimistic.
     
  9. Andaro

    Ambassador

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    The Tamer discord is preparing a thread regarding the new changes I believe.

    In regards to focus points, and "sticking it out"

    Screenshot_20200703-144605148 (1).jpg

    And yes, Heilangs fear of puddles was a long hard effort to win as it was a bug that unfortunately ended up low priority due to Tamers ability to grind without Heilang, and the structure of other available grind zones.

    I know a certain little tamer hounded me monthly about it, and thankfully the day was won and Heilang got his wading boots :peepoCheer: @Shimoyaki

    With that said, indeed it may just be a change that Tamers will have to weather for awhile so that they can analyze the changes properly and make appropriate future corrections.
     
    Shimoyaki and Venkas like this.
  10. LeMiau

    LeMiau Tamer 63 NA

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    You've definitely got some good points there and I get the logic that data needs to be consistent for the read to be accurate, but tamer was never a meta class to begin with say for 1v1 and you had to work your butt off to get good at it to begin with; it's a very unforgiving class with the slightest misstep punished like crazy; I get that I've made my bed playing tamer, and i've stuck to it no matter what because I love the class that much, but we've sent spreadsheets and God knows what metrics and feedback (all you need to do is check Tamer discord to see how they band together).

    I will never forget during the Heidel ball stream when asked how many devs actually PLAY BDO and while I know it was meant to be a peace sign, I'm more inclined than ever to believe he really meant just two played BDO. lol

    TL;DR they dun effed up and I hope they fix it sooner than later, and if they want ppl to stop rerolling to meta, first fix what you've got rather than keep releasing new classes to try and stay relevant.
     
  11. LeMiau

    LeMiau Tamer 63 NA

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    Letter from the BDO Tamer Discord

    Hello!
    I would like to start a dialogue between Tamer PvP players, one of which I am, and the GMs/developers, as we are strongly concerned about our class's state with the recent balance changes combined with the upcoming Black Spirit Rage skill changes.

    Tamer's main role in smaller fights was always to skirmish around, try and bait people into chasing us and eliminating them in a 1vX situation. We never excelled at it though, especially considering how good other skirmishers perform with their faster in-and-out movement, reliable protections (even our main mobility skill is only partially protected which basically means every time we use it we are forced to roll a dice - not a very rewarding nor a skillful mechanic) or humongous AoE damage - all of which our class lacks.

    The recent pvp balance change made us deal even less damage and receive more, which punishes our small scale capabilities and makes us unable to do anything in a situation where we face more than 1 enemy. Our Forward Guards get instantly deleted, so does our HP and even if we manage to catch someone off, we have to spend more time combo-ing them to death, which, combined with very flawed and slow movement compared to other classes, even the non-skirmish ones, leads to us getting very easily punished and frustrated.

    With the pvp balance change we have little to no ways to safely dish out a good amount of damage, as some of our main damage skills, such as Resonance or Fearful Trembling, significantly dropped in effectiveness due to their numbers not being buffed to counter the modifier change, unlike some of our awakening skills. This, combined with the fact that most of the classes deal more damage to us makes Tamer pretty much unable to accomplish anything in a smaller scale fight, which, as a skirmisher class, does not feel great.

    Large scale as Tamer was pretty straight forward - we didn't skirmish well and our 100% BSR was super strong, so it all came down to us being fed BSR and spamming our ult into a group of enemies. Even though it didn't feel great not using most of our kit because of how weak and unreliable it was, it allowed us to at least have some impact on the fight - eliminating 5 or 6 enemies could prove very valuable in certain situations and a well organized enemy made the job fairly tricky (contrary to what some non-tamer players would say).

    The modifier change made it even harder and even less rewarding. Most of the times we don't live long enough to cast the ability and the damage we deal with it dropped significantly, also due to its damage not getting buffed to counter the modifier change (only the non-bsr version of the skill received a dmg increase). This, combined with the upcoming BSR skills damage reduction will most certainly make tamers unplayable and unenjoyable in large scale pvp - the class simply is not good enough at skirmishing due to its slow and unreliable mobility and lacking kit and it will no longer have the only thing allowing it to have any impact on the fight.

    Our class was not a popular choice for pvp in the first place prior to the modifier changes due to the effort needed to play it at an appropriate level and perform well, compared to other skirmishers and the overall squishiness and damage output. Taking away our most impactful feature, lowering our damage and making us easier to kill will surely not help that situation.
    I hope that our effort to start a dialogue between Tamer players and developers can help make our experience playing the class rewarding and more enjoyable and help it bounce back from the very bottom.

    Kind regards
     
    Shimoyaki likes this.
  12. Jigglypurf

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    -My message for the devs

    I'm a succession Tamer that has been playing the game for roughly 3 years now. I was very excited when Succession was first announced, and started preparing for it right away. I was very disappointed with the overall strength of Tamer Succession as it released, and the recent nerfs to Tamer was blatantly unacceptable. Tamer has been universally been accepted as at least *one* of the worst classes since I have started playing, the idea of a "changing meta" has not been applied to some classes that have been dead in the water for years.

    As someone who plays Tier 1 nodewars, the discrepancy between classes shows hard. Even with capped stats for T1s, I can land an entire combo on someone and only take 20% of their health, and there are other classes that can kill me with one ability. As Tamer on NA servers is only considered competitive because of 100% Allround Spinner, I have to wonder what the purpose of Succession Tamer is supposed to be.

    My proposal is to have separate balancing between regions. From my understanding, Tamer performs better in Korea because the region is small, so every player has a good connection. This makes short duration protected skills like the majority of Tamer's more reliable. This is not the case on NA/EU servers, the connection on average is much worse due to the larger region. If the game is balanced according to each region, it may cause much less grief for not just Tamers, but for the playerbase as a whole.
     
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  13. Froxin

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    Tamer is in a SERIOUS need of a change. Prior to the PvP changes on July 1st, Tamer was a high damaging small scale class who could accel in 1v1s, but could die pretty easily. Now, after the changes, Tamer is now even squishier making her nearly impossible to play against decent opponents. Not to mention her damage was nerfed more. The Game Developers of BDO on other servers, not just KR, needs to listen to us. I am tired of this. I have spent over 2 years learning Tamer and enjoying every second. I had to deal with the fact that was a squishier class, but now this is absurd. She needs to be changed and made relevant again.
     
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  14. Yoshiya88

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    Tbh, Heilang is the source of a lot of our problems and most of us complain about his dumb ai and annoying mechanics. Sometimes he'll provide his follow up attacks, and sometimes he'd rather wander around or show up way later than he should. It's inconsistent. When we use our E buff then use void, he decides to teleport to our location over and over like a broken record basically making him useless. When we use command attack or howling, sometimes he decides that he would rather sit there and roar (which does nothing at all) than to actually attack. And on the topic of his commands, what is the purpose of sit? 3hp every 3 seconds is the most useless skill ever, it's literally have a skill dedicated to roleplaying. The same could be said of riding Heilang as well, it's useless. When we respawn in open world/nw we have to waste time pulling him out, why? This just gets us killed. Oh, but summon Heilang has super armor though? Well that's a joke, and a whole other issue that needs to be addressed...

    All of these issues, and the worst part about it? Sometimes he will randomly cc someone for no reason and so everyone calls our dog OP. It's bs, and it undermines the work we put into Tamer. That's why I'd rather have less Heilang than more.
     
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  15. Froxin

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    Beautifully said.
     
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