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Please tone down the Knockdown / Bound resistance values on Crystals.

Discussion in 'General Gameplay' started by Despins, Oct 22, 2018.

  1. Despins

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    Downsmash do not apply in combined CC and Downsmash if target is still capable of being CCed still but I may be wrong about this one. 15% chance on first hit only, which then is 30% chance to hit?

    It's not really helping much it seems to me.
     
  2. WhySoSeeryus

    WhySoSeeryus Wizard 63 EU

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    not entirely sure how it works numberwise tbh, but fireball explosion with addon procs downsmash way more often. try it out.
     
  3. Despins

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    I will try it. Thanks.
     
  4. Otrsor

    Otrsor Sorceress 63 EU

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    They do, most downsmashes come in skills that already have another CC, saddly if the target is still being able to get CCed by the CC effect the downsmash wont work so it only works after the second CC or if the CC effect of the skill doesnt affect the target (like a stun or a knocback on a downed target). But definetly works if you use the first CC and ur second CC puts or leaves the target on the ground (KD ,bound or float) and its well timed.

    On the second question the 15% is the actual chance, it is not a 30% of the 15%(it feels more reliable than what you would expect with a 15% but have no tests to back it up, just the feel).
     
  5. Despins

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    It was a difficult read, but interesting one.

    In my case, the 15% downsmash is attached to Fireball Explosion which itself does Knockdown. If the Knockdown is resisted (after a freeze or a bound), will it then roll that downsmash chance? Would it mean that putting Downsmash may increase my chance of landing a CC?

    I do hope you'll excuse my little knowledge on the details regarding downsmash as I am not in the side having access to them.
     
  6. Otrsor

    Otrsor Sorceress 63 EU

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    Yep, keep in mind that getting a downsmash after a freeze or a bound or a float requires a lot of timing, the window where you can downsmash after those CCs is quite slim.
    If you use it in the window where the downsmash is avaible, yes, but remember you cannot doubt, for a bound or a float the downsmash timing is around 0,5 sec or some **** like that after the CC landed (no idea with the freeze).
     
    #66 Otrsor, Oct 23, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2018
  7. Escapism

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    pvp isnt the only place where resistances are (or were) useful, it used to be that f.e. to grind efficiently at crescents pre-awakenings, some classes had to get as much kd resistance as possible, you wanted those gems to not get perma knocked down by the guardians. Some core design aspects in the game have stayed, no matter how much the game changed. As I said above, some forms of cc are much more common than others (in pvp as well as pve) so naturally resists for those should be more accessible too.

    If stacking more ignore doesnt work out for you, then maybe you should instead try to use different types of cc's, it's not the ideal solution, but thats also how wars/zerkers felt against targets that stacked grapple res, before they got their passive 30% grapple ignore and before all that res ignore was even a thing. For some healthy gear & build options, it should absolutely be possible and viable to f.e. stack resists against a type of cc, and get some actual use of it, and not just have that effect completely negated because everyone gets 50-60% res ignore, just as it should be possible to stack some above average accuracy or evasion in your build and see some different effects of that.

    the fact that evasion doesnt work anymore against cc is even way worse, there are so many other more important & more severe issues to talk and complain about in bdo's pvp, but who is even still taking any of it seriously, just move along to literally any other game if you want decent pvp.
     
  8. Decem

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    If someone is using 2x kd gems, giving himself trouble to keep 5ms , you can use ingore KD gems in offhand. You both have to sacrifice something to get resist or penetrate them. Simple.
     
  9. Despins

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    One sacrifice 2 Movement Speed points, the other sacrifices 10 AP and 300 HP, or 10%/20% Critical Strike Damage. And we're far from being out of the trouble. It's still a significant resistance that player has to go through. Still very RNG.
     
  10. Valient

    Valient Ninja 60 EU

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    ofc, i can agree the ccs being resisted after you time a very open skill properly, however, i do not agree to making things easier for classes with skills that have massive dmg, cc and sa....

    lets take a look at ninja, specifically serpents ascension, hits like a truck, has float with air atk... but completely open, that sounds balanced, cos if you do it in the middle of a fight, you're fcked.

    lets take a look at witch's voltaic pulse, hits like a truck, has bound and down atk, and super armour, so if you miss the bound after doing it in a croweded fight, you're hard to cc cos of the sa.
     
  11. Itago

    Itago Witch 62 EU

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    https://bdocodex.com/us/item/793/ or https://bdocodex.com/us/item/691/ combined with Urugons (+1) is 4. +2 from costume (sacrifice crit)
    https://bdocodex.com/us/item/734/ is 5 alone.

    So worst case 50% KD resist vs 1ms or realistic 50% resist vs nothing.
    To get 20% ignore resist you have to give up 10 AP and 300 HP, 20% from main weapon give up critical (kzarka) and another 10% from Kutum if your willing to sacrifice 12-13 sheet AP.

    12 sheet AP, 10 hidden AP, 300 HP and crit rate or possibly 1 movement speed. hard call for who gives up more...
     
  12. Escapism

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    The point is, why SHOULD it even be possible to cap out resist ignore? That wouldnt really make sense. the ability to stack or cap out resists on the other hand does make sense, stats which ignore or negate opponents stats or builds should always be much rarer and harder to get, and never be able to be stacked as high as the other, thats how pretty much every game handles it.

    Armor/Armorpen, one of these two is much rarer and harder to stack than the other in every game, same with dmg resistances ect. If stats like armor pen would be equally available and stackable as armor in any game, everyone would just stack armor pen straight away, there would be no point in getting any armor.

    Same would be the case here with cc resists and ignores, if it was any easier than it already is to stack resist ignores even further, then resists would be entirely useless.
     
  13. WhySoSeeryus

    WhySoSeeryus Wizard 63 EU

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    lets compare witch and ninja mobility and likelihood to be grabbed and killed even while casting first skill.
     
  14. WhySoSeeryus

    WhySoSeeryus Wizard 63 EU

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    u dont need boot gems for 5 ms.
     
  15. Itago

    Itago Witch 62 EU

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    I would like to introduce AP and DR for you, AP is way easier to get and makes DR uselsss (unless we are talking extreme gearscore diffrence)

    Stacking enough ignore resist to negate the resist from someone that done even care about stacking it is NOT a bad game design. I dont care if we get +25% resist gems is not the problem, the problem is not sacrificing anything to use it.

    Look at the sacrifices that need to be made to counter those 2 crystals, 4 crystals and changing from Nouver to Kutum (that also cancel eachother out for resist so -10% all resist)
     
  16. Escapism

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    AP and DR arent "equivalents" which are cancelling or negating each other out, they are calculated and scale independently. The equivalent to this are stats that let you ignore or reduce your opponents DR against your attacks.

    Take a look at f.e. Magic Lighthouse. (https://bdocodex.com/us/skill/1622/): Magic DP -15 (constantly) for 10 sec.

    ^ This is the equivalent of armor penetration in other games, or the equivalent to res. ignore vs resistances, which directly negates or reduces your opponents stats. How many abilities and buffs which reduce your opponents DR can you count in this game?




    And stacking cc resists in this game isnt even that much easier as stacking res. ignore, if you would count with 0% base resistances instead of the base 20% everyone starts with, which are there for a good reason. Most people have been stacking a lot more res ignore than resistances, with the standard 2x precision setup already. You are basically asking for the ability to overstack res-ignore high enough to even ignore and bypass the classes innate stats instead of just countering their specific builds.
     
  17. Otrsor

    Otrsor Sorceress 63 EU

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    2 KD ignore offhand gems dont even counter 1 boots KD resist gem fully.. ffs you would need kutum + 2 ignore kd resist + 2 precision on weap to just counter the 2 gems of the boots, if the other player uses nouver you just cant counter that, and if he has intimidation he already have an extra 20% you cant counter at all and then the natural 20%...

    Im pretty much reexplaining what OP said but welp, even if you build everything you can to counter a normal 0 effort crystal resist build (RBF on boots + intimidation on helmet) you still face 50% of resistance...


    That would be a way of countering rng on fights completly on the cost of other stats, im fine with it, rng resist shouldnt exist and as they do at least there should be a way to completly deny them (most other mmos have a hit cap you actually wanna reach to precisely ignore the rng factor in fights, no one wants to miss that one long CD strong CC by rng, its safe to asume in most mmos that the end game pvp includes all players with hit chance capped, its kind of a requirement to reach there, even a 5% chance of missing will mean you will lose 1 fight out of every 20 where that skill was required to win in the long term)
     
    #77 Otrsor, Oct 23, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2018
  18. Valient

    Valient Ninja 60 EU

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    serpent ascension is static as a skill can be, the only non static skill (murderous intent) moves as much as wizard's hellfire and is just as open. the rest of the awakening skills are static like witches/wizard, the only mobility they get is the mobility from mobility skills....
     
  19. WhySoSeeryus

    WhySoSeeryus Wizard 63 EU

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    ninjas kit is way better for choosing how and when to use the skill and stay alive, wouldnt you agree?
     
  20. Escapism

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    In most mmo's ive played, people rather go for higher numbers and more crit chance instead of capping hit for pvp. Capping hit is something pve'rs and raiders do to maximize their dps on long bossfights, against enemies which have static & unchanging stats. In pvp all you need is good survival and some lucky big dmg-spikes. Capping hit at the cost of reducing your chance of getting huge dmg-spikes wont help you at killing healers, or players that are getting healed.

    Also capping hitrate for pvp is, and should be, impossible anyway since players are able to stack evasion/dodge as well to directly negate that again, or some classes have abilities that make them get hit less often for some duration, or even make them immune to spells or attacks for a limited time, ect.
     

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