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Please tone down the Knockdown / Bound resistance values on Crystals.

Discussion in 'General Gameplay' started by Despins, Oct 22, 2018.

  1. Valient

    Valient Ninja 60 EU

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    t4 fairy chugging dem mp pots......

    but in all seriousness, at high ap the shield really doesnt mean much even in a 1v1, the resistances are the only thing that work. true large scale might have a lot of cc flying about, but even then that one resisted cc can give you a small window to escape.
     
  2. Itago

    Itago Witch 62 EU

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    If you rely on running away in large scale, im not sure what to say...
     
  3. Rayin

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    You're just playing with semantic and want to fit in the "Skilled" word where it doesn't fit, that's it. I-frames are just a defensive tool, period.
    I dunno why they should allow anything more than SA & FG.
    Mystic has even more protected CC than Ninja and less way to CC her, so on paper it should be stronger, which maybe she is. So what's up?
    But i want to clarify that she is not, she is just a different beast, since if you use a Ninja or a Kuno to fight her you're definitely going to have easier times than with a Warrior.

    You just repeated what i said in the bolded part + the high damage i mentioned briefly earlier. Add oni-shadow and you got why Ninja is so strong.

    Sorc doesn't have plenty openings, Sorc has some openings. That can be exploited with certain classes more than others, which means that some classes can't pro-actively fight a Sorc, as some other classes can't pro-actively fight a Ninja.
    For instance i can catch Sorcs better on my Ninja & Striker than Warrior and there's a reason for that. On Striker is 50/50 success, on Ninja is easier, on Warrior trying anything is RNG with her and you're just going to be grounded most of time with a Sorc dancing on you with violation, so yeah, to me it seems a "git gud" issue when classes aren't balance at all.
    Same goes for grab, try to grab a Mystic that is using her PA that gives her a grapple resistance or while she's trying to CC you, unless you have a protected grab 80% of times is suicidal. And when she's trying to CC you, she is protected while you're not.
    We can dance around that concept all day for me, but it's a no brainer.

    It's not retarded when you use a logic fallacy which basically says that a defensive tool allows skilled gameplay, this doesn't make any sense whatsoever. It's like saying that basic attacks can allow skilled gameplay, which in fact in this game they don't.
    Guess what? in Dragon Nest they do, because there's a status called flinch as soon as you hit someone the first time.

    Using tumble at the right moment, even delaying it to trick the opponent - does that.
    Using Aerial Evasion efficiently to not be caught again in his combo and find an opening, right after, to CC him - does that.
    Making it bounce against a surface and knowing exactly how its body will react accordingly and what skill to use to make him bounce again softly o throw it in air - does that.
    Using a SA skill stronger than your SAb to trade more damage with you - does that.
    Using a SAb stronger than your SA skill to break it and CC you - does that.
    Comboing someone when you're electrocuted and resuming the combo after that status interrupts your combo during a X moment - does that.
    Hitting someone with a jump + normal to adjust the trajectory of its body - does that.
    Knowing exactly how to resume a combo and actively dodge a CC breaker from a class like Gladiator that has 3000 escaping moves - requires skill.
    Dodging an Holy Burst from an Inquisitor being inside its circle when that skill last forever and has a huge circular area of impact with an hitbox that hits you even if you're slightly out - does that.

    I-frames per se allow nothing, i can go ahead all day. Since they are different games it doesn't mean that you can apply different concepts of "allowing skilled gameplay", if i-frames in other games do not allow anything, in this game they are not different.
    And we had a more skilled PvP prior those changes, where people could use FG to trade damage with whoever was using a SA skill, i-frames to avoid actively those 2-3 hits that else could've been fatal, SA + CC or just CC timed right to counter who was dancing around you in i-frame.
    You could've permalocked someone that was incapable to play and resist to CC, now RNG dictates if you're going to fail or succeed and at the same time decides if he's going to CC you for longer or not.

    Now who has more i-frames, more protected CC, more mobility, wins the fight.

    Yeah, in a game where grabs have different effects a gap closer is the most effective? vacuum grabs, straight grabs, KD grabs, protected grabs.
    Warrior grab is only more effective against Wiz/Witch because you can interrupt them due their long casting time, against an agile class that can i-frame plenty skills from different sources, having a gap closer means that it's just a chance to hit him once if you succeed. It gives you slightly more efficiency than a Valk or a Striker in term of grabbing capacity.

    Yes, let's talk about technicalities: Warrior grab engage to be performed requires you to use HeadChase + Solar Flare using both with the right timing to move you as far as you can using both skill duration to their fullest extent, but many times you can mess up that timing and shorten that sprint of some meters condamning yourself to being CC'ed. If you did that correctly you must C swap, which once again requires timing or you're going through the slow sheat/unsheat animation and isn't protected since you must cancel it (but i'd argue even that C swap on main hand is protected because i've been caught many times during it from frontal attacks that weren't no-collision CC, while on Awakening swap i could block them). If you did everything correct and you're standing in front of a target, you must be sure that he didn't cast some sort of protected CC at the same time else you're CC'ed, because the grab range is very short (not as Valk) and without desync usually any skill that isn't millimetric hits you before you can press E. Also if isn't a 1 vs 1, you must be sure that someone else isn't attacking you from behind/your side or any other position, else you're just going to be CC'ed because your grab is unprotected.

    Read it again and think that everything must be done in such a short time-frame that basically requires a trained muscle memory and as for everything, shìt can happen and you can still mess up the timing even if you did it 10.000 times.
    And we can't cancel our grab neither, i believe that no one can, so it's not a Lahn main feature. Ranger can't neither. Zerk can't. Valk can't. Ninja can't. Striker does an unprotected centimetric backstep. Wizard can't. I don't know if other classes can't as well, but i think that at this point we clarified that most of classes can't cancel their grab upon failing.

    So yeah, pressing a single button or two to perform a grab and having a much bigger hitbox doesn't seem inferior at all to pressing several buttons in a small time-frame with the right timing, to perform a skill that has still a smaller hitbox and if you messed up you're dead, crystal clear.
     
    #123 Rayin, Oct 25, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2018
  4. WhySoSeeryus

    WhySoSeeryus Wizard 63 EU

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    fairy is actually THE reason you die. you get damage, fairy autopots, you lose mana due to magical shield, and cant even tp away and mp pots are on cd.

    and i think most wizards use the skill solely for resistances and wouldnt mind dmg absorption removed from the skill. (well, ok, maybe would be better if mana shield stopped absorbing when mana is at 20%)
     
    #124 WhySoSeeryus, Oct 25, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2018
  5. Valient

    Valient Ninja 60 EU

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    surely you save your teleport for something like running away? cos using to engage sounds a bit wasteful......
     
  6. Itago

    Itago Witch 62 EU

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    Works in theory, but after you mana is gone (mana shield does that) you cant cast teleport aka running away.
     
  7. Valient

    Valient Ninja 60 EU

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    and thats what we were discussing, changing mana shield to only give resistances, rather than dr since its mostly useless against high ap,
     
  8. WhySoSeeryus

    WhySoSeeryus Wizard 63 EU

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    they would have to compensate for survivability loss somehow tho. magic shield might get u killed, but it also saves you from getting killed.

    elegant solution would be to simply make it stop absorption below certain max mp% (20?15?10?) so that you at least have access to tp.
     
  9. Itago

    Itago Witch 62 EU

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    At best that is derailing the topic, we should be discussing knowckdown-bound resists :P

    If we all agree that there are major drawbacks to Mana Shield, i dont see what else there is to discuss about it in this topic
     
  10. WhySoSeeryus

    WhySoSeeryus Wizard 63 EU

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    i wouldnt mind those getting nerfed a bit. coz its affecting big part of our arsenal. :wizard:

    watersphere, meteor, rabam fb, fireball explosion, cataclysm, residual lightning,..
     
  11. Valient

    Valient Ninja 60 EU

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    theres also ppl who say resistances dont work, of which i'm one, i run 60 100 50 50 without griffon, and my ninja always gets cced by every cc thrown at it (1v1s) so im a bit skeptical.
     
  12. WhySoSeeryus

    WhySoSeeryus Wizard 63 EU

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    well, that depends on the perspective i guess. everyone feels like he is getting ccd too much and that their ccs are getting resisted too much :D
     
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  13. irrelevant

    irrelevant Pixelstorm Tamer 62 EU

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    solution - revert the trash combat system to what we had before
     
    Reuter and Mesuka like this.
  14. Despins

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    Or remove the mana cost of teleport.
     

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