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Poll: The Most Important Update That They Refuse to Give Us

Discussion in 'PvP' started by Nox Demon, Jun 8, 2019.

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Is PVP As Broken as I Stated?

  1. Yeah, fix that **** please

    43 vote(s)
    44.3%
  2. Stop whining no one cares lul

    54 vote(s)
    55.7%
  1. LiquidEmotion

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    You seem very inexperienced. I agree that DP needs some sort of buff with a drop off at high DP builds but I don't die in 3-4 seconds when I am PA'd. I play ranger so even a squishy class like me would only die once PA ends. And yes, the first CC will always win a fight. That's how it always has been. Get gud. Also, Shai will actually make matches last longer instead of instant death. They literally have a shield bubble. They are a big counter to classes like an archer who have been an annoying pest in the battlefield so this class seems like their solution to countering against them amongst other ranged classes.
     
    #21 LiquidEmotion, Jun 16, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2019
  2. Hekki

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    That crap always has been major problem of this game.

    And I guess this poll is about finally fix it.
     
  3. Doom Smack

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    Maybe CC's should actually be what they are named after - crowd control. A way of temporarily disabling people. In Lineage 2 for example, stuns and sleep - if the player got hit it would break it. I guess in this game its needed for killing as its one of only ways getting people to actually be god damn still so you can kill them lol?

    I dunno I don't really get the pvp in this game, I love pvp but I suck hard in this game (trying to work on it), dunno if the ping play a large role in that as well but seems too fast and too much dodging all over the show things don't seem connect very well. Getting older and slower is probably also a factor (ha).

    However I can accept the combat in this game for what it is (my personal taste would be slower paced but in the right kinda way, but that's just me), haven't done enough varied pvp to really make suggestions.

    I will say though: Im all for some players being able achieve god mode, and somewhat people should be happier with their gear even if it isn't maxed, buuut: 1. The AP curve is a little crazy. 2. Would be better if it wasn't quite so extreme difference in survivability top maxed gear and next notch down. Perhaps a boost to survivability all round or something.
     
    #23 Doom Smack, Jun 16, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2019
  4. Factorial

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    CC in BDO is essentially stun in a million different forms and names. Every CC is a subset of the stun matrix.

    Like stated, a stun is needed to kill PVP targets because they all move at almost instantaneous speeds. Thus, first CC wins. This is Asian PVP meta that's damn near 20 years old now. BDO isn't the first to implement this.
     
    Doom Smack likes this.
  5. LiquidEmotion

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    BDO's form of CCs allows lower GS players to actually compete with more geared players. If my CC's only impaired you until hit then obviously the more geared person is going to win in this instance. In order for this to work without gear being 100% the winning factor, we would need to have higher cooldowns on skills so the CC is used to interrupt thus wasting that person's strong attack. More people would complain including myself as long cooldowns does not make the game fun at all. I am not trying to be offensive but this would be a terrible idea in bdo. What they need to remove is CC resistance (except for maybe grabs). RNG should not dictate a win.
     
    #25 LiquidEmotion, Jun 16, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2019
    Factorial and Kauni like this.
  6. Unranked

    Unranked Unranked Striker 62 EU

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    Now please tell me why resistance should be removed expect for grab? grab is already the most punishable cc if it fails (you jump pack and stand still unable to move for strikers atleast).

    If you are going to say grab needs atleast one counter; the counter to grab is distance (exept for lahn ofc)
     
  7. LiquidEmotion

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    I'm not saying that this is the best fix but if grabs were guaranteed 100% of the time then that would be extremely cheap. It's the one cc that ignores all protection aside for iframes. Classes like witch/wiz would be ****ed. Strikers/mystics already have protected grabs (with a decent range) while classes like ranger don't have a protected grab with good range and they even feel like using a grab to win is cheap. How it should be is Engaging with a grab first should have some sort of penalty however using a grab after an initial CC should be 100%. You say the counter is distance but what if you need to get close? Just my 2 cents.
     
  8. Kauni

    Kauni Archer 62 EU

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    Imo if removing resistance then for all CCs. For grab every class should have at least one proper iframe to avoid it.
     
  9. Unranked

    Unranked Unranked Striker 62 EU

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    If you need to get close you can still keep enough distance to not be in grab range. from my experience I almost never engage with grab because its to slow, unreliable and risky. the only time I use it to engage Is if some idiot decides to combo me for too long and I grab him while getting up. in that case I think its on him for staying there to long and the grab should be 100% to
     
  10. LiquidEmotion

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    no...just no. I am sorry but if you can't understand why a grab being 100% is overpowered then there is no point in talking to you.
     
  11. Hekki

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    But is it excuse for this crap or what? This is just broken.
     
  12. Nyhver

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    It could work but it'd ruin the game's unique and good feel in that sense, it's an action combat game, kinda like fighting games but in a more three dimensional MMORPG-type feel, the combat system being reworked for CC in this manner would not be a good thing.

    There does seem to be some big adjustments around the same system-- RNG on CC removed, on hit/miss removed, CC break with a small window of immunity (0.5 seconds or something) but that's probably the biggest changes. One of BDO's biggest mistakes was taking a nerf bat to all the classes and reworking the CC system to a float-on-floored-targets & point system

    samesies brah

    No it hasn't. What do you have against proper combos? The attack-defense values should be adjusted, sure but not much past 2 combos, 1 long optimized combo should kill someone, 2 long combos should kill someone. What is it against high-stakes fast paced pvp that you turtles detest so much? You think the tank meta will be so much more exciting and skillful? You and everyone else will fast grow tired of everyone hitting each other with nerf bats and fighting lasting hours, where you need to outplay someone 50 times in a row to actually land a kill on someone
     
  13. Hekki

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    Nothing. But that is MMORPG, not fighting game end even in fighting games you can not kill anyone with single combo. And be honest, combos in BDO are just one 1-2 combos per class. It is not even close in complicay of real fighting games like Tekken. At same time RNG in CC, and real random outputs caused by desync and lags in large area of North America and Europe. Add to it balance in groups inluded mass PvP esspecially sieges and node wars and need of balance it. Current balance make melee characters mostly unplayable for mass PvP. And Defensive/Tank builds even on class that should be tanks does not allow to surive on front line. And still this game MMORPG - RPG it should represent major RPG feture - the create builds while current, always this game was only about stack AP.

    Ofc, there is another problem. Characters moving, ruching, blinking and teleporting too much and this should be also nerfed to the ground. Because indeed in this game can not kill somebody that is not killed in first 1-2 combos.
     
  14. Bnna

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    what combo was that? considering this is lahn we are talking about even thought it can also happen bc of fps i would almost bet you **** up. for some reason the class with easiest combos is so hard for almost everybody who plays it that only a one digit number of lahns on eu can do the combos right (still can't figure out why. only classes with lower level of competence on average are musas and mystics). even the ****ing lahn discord tells you to do the main combo wrong.

    lahn grab has 3 different ways of desyncing it's grab and 1 of them are based on the movement of the target after landing the grab component and before the (for lahn) bound and is unique to lahn and (as much as i know) ranger

    1) normal grab desync that all classes have. you get stuck in the landed grab animation while target is not cced and/or can move (on his screen) but gets teleported back every 0.5 seconds. target gets hit by everything you do in the meanwhile if it doesn't use protection, protection applies normally. on lahn it kills the lahn in like 90% of the cases.
    2) grab doesn't actually land on neither screen but then the target is grabbed. also happens on all classes.

    3) target disappears completely or moves very fast towards random direction while on the ground then reappears on the spot where it's supposed to be after ~0.7 seconds. target is completely invincible in that period and can't be hit by anything. makes you lose most of the damage from the pre extender part of your combo but when you get used to it second part lands. this is so common that it makes sense to get used to do the combos right from this, happens pretty much all the time.
     
  15. Whineseeker

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    Remove ap bracket and let skill decides who wins instead of who got their pen weapons WHEN ?
     
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  16. Kauni

    Kauni Archer 62 EU

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    Would only work if you balance the classes first and even then... after shai release it would make large scale PvP even more broken.
     
  17. Whineseeker

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    Reduce the ap curve then...
    As it is now it’s a complete oneshot festival.

    They must balance the over softcap bracket, there’s such a huge difference against someone with 270/330...it feels like being a level 43, it cannot be designed like that
     
  18. Kauni

    Kauni Archer 62 EU

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    Getting 269 ap nowadays is not hard. Yes, it is true that you can't just get it in few weeks if you start from zero but BDO was never meant to be like that. At 269 ap you can kill pretty much every geared player, not evasion memers tho.

    To implement what you are asking for it would need another cc change and complete skill re-design since most classes are just designed to do only few combos. If these combos do not kill anymore because of ap tweak, you would need to re-design all classes and their entire kit. That will obviously never happen.

    Edit: Here you can see some high geared KR PvP.

    Even tho I do not consider any of this guys super skilled or something but they are not bad either. It is far away from a one shot fiesta meanwhile they are popping draught/perfume which give you mainly damage buff and pretty much nothing to buff your defense. This one shot fiesta rumor is usually spread by lower geared people just simply being outgeared. The closer you get to the actual end game gs, the more you will notice that the ap is not an issue.
     
    #38 Kauni, Jun 18, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2019
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  19. Nyhver

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    Games like Tekken are more complicated but BDO's complexity goes beyond what you think it has

    There's a lot of similarity between BDO and fighting games/tekken 7

    Tekken 7 has some large damage in combos, half and over half your health in optimized combos which would put us at the 2 combo gauge

    People cannot play as well as Vangertz, (with the few mistakes he does) even given months of training

    I'll also point to Maehwa, maehwa is played by most people in a basic way, but she has a bunch of cancels and different combos to do, some are more skillful and showy, but some are the same but also practical, you can, like so many before you, endlessly say that maehwa only has 1-2 practical combos, but then you will see that if you were pressed on that issue, your 1-2 practical combos limit you because you don't know any better, so any myriad of situations where you shouldn't be pressing the same combo, (due to timing, cd, damage, movement, etc) you will fall victim to just like all the rest that prescribe to such a belief

    The system even after it got mauled, (pvp revamp) still allows quite a bit of skill and complexity, it is people like you who refuse to see that it allows you more depth that always try to make this game more simple and easy than it is
     
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  20. Hekki

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    1) it still not one combo to kill as in BDO
    2) it is 1 vs 1 game not xx vs xx
    3) This over half HP combos have just some characters, not all. Launchers that lead to this combos are heavy punishable and it almost never happens. If only one of this combos happens usually cause big WOOOW!!! in the public during turnaments - because it is rare to perform.

    So this is completly opposite to BDO case where whole game is based on kills by single combo.
     

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