Let's look to a definition of tanks that seems fairly simple. Tank Noun: A player-character, typically in a MMORPG, that is able to occupy an aggressor and take the brunt of the aggressor's attacks while the other players deal damage, heal, or perform some other action. The "tank" can survive longer while taking damage than the other characters. Typically, the tank has higher hitpoints (health) and a higher armor rating than the other characters. Less commonly, a character with a lower armor rating can perform the actions of the tank by using avoidance abilities. Ultimately, the tank needs to be able to occupy the aggressor without dying. The method employed, whether avoidance or absorption, does not matter, as long as the tank can migitate damage in some way. For some reason whenever someone says anything about buffing either of these classes to better fit the meta of this game, there are always those who say things like "It's a tank, it shouldn't have damage because then it would be OP" "It's a tank, it shouldn't be mobile because then it would be OP" "It's a tank, it shouldn't have CC because then it would be OP" To which I ask, why do you think this class is a tank? And the response is almost always "They have shields, so they can take more hits than any other class. Therefore, they are tanks" BUT, we have just established that tanking isn't just being able to absorb an arbitrary amount of attacks, but OCCUPY THE ENEMY WITHOUT DYING OR DYING MORE SLOWLY. So, in light of this definition lets look at what actually happens in combat. Block -> Gets broken almost immediately in the AP ****fest of this game and takes time to come back. Can be made useless with back attacks and While it is gone, all defensive skills that use it are rendered useless. Ability to occupy enemy: Until block is broken, which can be 1 skill in some cases. SA -> Can still die, but you are protected until then and some SA reduces damage too bootAbility to occupy enemy: until a grab or enough focused chip damage I-Frame -> No counter Ability to occupy enemy: Infinite So, basically, block seems to have the least amount of actual tanking effectiveness and I-frame the most. Lets see if this actually matches up in the game with classes that use each defense as their primary and how well they tank. Block primary classes -> War/Valk: Get destroyed almost immediately because their shield breaks and then CC -> GG Can tank 1 or 2 enemy at most, tanking gone once shield is broken. SA primary classes -> Zerker, Wizard, Witch, Striker, Mystic: Get killed quickly when focused but can survive due to being able to avoid CC Can tank multiple enemies as long as they avoid staying still for too long and being focused. I Frame primary classes -> Sorc, DK, ninja, kuno: Never die as long as they have stamina and mange cooldowns no matter how many people are attacking.Can tank infinite enemies for as long as they manage stamina/cooldowns. Even before renown changes, warrior and valks could rarely enter giant groups of enemies by themselves and be able to occupy the enemy. Sorcs and DK's however were notorious for it. Summary: Valks and Wars are not tanks, If tanking requires staying alive and being a nuisance Sorc and Mystic are at the top and should be the actual targets of "tanks shouldn't have X" comments.